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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

View Poll Results: After how many generations of "pure" breeding would say a snake is pure corn?
As long as a snake looks like a corn and acts like a corn, it's pure to me 4 8.16%
After 2 generations 0 0%
After 5 generations 5 10.20%
After 10 generations 7 14.29%
After 15 generations 1 2.04%
After 20 generations 0 0%
After 25 generations or more (if more, specify which number in the thread) 2 4.08%
If a snake has any hybrid ancestor, no matter how many generations ago, it's still a hybrid. 30 61.22%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

Proposal regarding hybrids / pure corns
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:12 PM   #31
jkgeorge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
Isn't it crazy to breed for traits that might never appear in the same organism if left to nature? We are altering a snakes morphology in ways that would never occur in nature when we selectively breed for traits that we like. How is adding hybrid genes into the mix any different or anything to worry about anymore so than the selective breeding of traits not normally seen in a wild specimen is something to worry about? I see a Honduran x Corn along the same lines as I see a Honduran x American personally. Even more so when it is understood that these are pets. I think if we could let go of our fears of calling them hybrid and simply create the most beautiful snakes we can based on what can and should naturally breed together to produce babies for the pet trade then we may be onto something called progress.
Honduran x corn is like human x chimpanzee. And yes it is crazy. That's why I like locality specific snakes that aren't far removed from the wild.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #32
jkgeorge
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkgeorge View Post
Honduran x corn is like human x chimpanzee.
OK, not exactly, LOL. But comparing races of humans and breeds of dogs is not comparable to species hybridization. Sure my neighbors may have beagle X sneaky neighbor dog puppies, but red tail hawks never swoop down and mate with their chickens.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 08:19 PM   #33
Carpe Serpentis
Human x chimpanzee... each have a totally different number of chromosomes. I don't see the comparison.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 08:20 PM   #34
Carpe Serpentis
No, but red tail hawks and red shoulder hawks do swoop down and mate.
 
Old 01-14-2013, 08:22 PM   #35
jkgeorge
Same genus...
 
Old 01-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #36
Carpe Serpentis
My point is this, we as humans put labels on organisms and decide that they should or should not mate and produce viable offspring based on what objective reasoning? If they mate and produce viable progeny that are capable of mating further... I call that proof enough that they can mate and should for the purposes of being a pet.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 12:05 AM   #37
Ryan Beatty
I admit I haven't read this entire thread but I just wanted to ad this to the discussion. When home DNA test kits become affordable for the average breeder a LOT of people are going to be very devastated when their "pure" corns from the top notch and reliable breeders aren't so pure.

This is a "Tharacorn:, 75% corn 25% thayeri king.
 
Old 01-15-2013, 04:01 AM   #38
SnakeAround
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Serpentis View Post
My point is this, we as humans put labels on organisms and decide that they should or should not mate and produce viable offspring based on what objective reasoning? If they mate and produce viable progeny that are capable of mating further... I call that proof enough that they can mate and should for the purposes of being a pet.
Says it all!
 
Old 01-15-2013, 07:47 AM   #39
Isoldael
I love the discussion and people bring up many valid points. I didn't mean to start another discussion on whether or not hybridization is right or not, though. I hope we can set up some sort of manageable definition of "pure" that we can start working with
 
Old 01-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #40
jkgeorge
If a locally endemic population of snakes existed in your area would you release an invasive species to improve the looks of the native snakes? Of course not. It would be unethical and not ecologically sound. We have to start looking at our hobby the same way we look at the natural world. With unsound practices we CAN essentially extirpate a species from our hobby. This idea of "I'm making the most visually appealing snake, to hell with the consequences" is very troubling. We have to start being conservation minded within our hobby or else our hobby won't be sustainable.
 

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