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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

Clear Ventral Scales A Diffuse Indicator?
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:17 PM   #1
Susan
Clear Ventral Scales A Diffuse Indicator?

Well, I went through several years worth of hatchling photos for diffuse ventrals, and even got a few progressions and have come to the conclusion that yes, some diffuses snakes have clear patches on their ventrals, but not all of them. Lineage also doesn't seem to be a factor as it varies within the same clutch. When the clear patches are present, they do seem to be apparent fairly young. Of course, to continue the "research", I will have to go through all the motleys and stripes I've hatched out over the years to see if there are any clear patches on their ventrals or not.

Here are some examples of diffuse ventrals and it will take several posts to get them all up:

First photo - female diffuse post first shed (Aug '08)
Second photo - same female (Jan '09)
Third photo - female diffuse post first shed (Aug '08) - full sister to above
Fourth photo - same female (Jan '09)
Fifth photo - again, same female (Feb '10)
 
Old 12-30-2011, 08:22 PM   #2
Susan
First photo - male diffuse post first shed (Aug '08) - full brother to above 2 females
Second photo - same male (Jan '09)
Third photo - again, same male (Feb '10)
Fourth photo - female caramel diffuse post first shed (Aug '08) - full sister to above 3 snakes
Fifth photo - same female (Jan '09)
 
Old 12-30-2011, 08:26 PM   #3
Susan
First 3 photos of are different male diffuse and the last 2 photos are different female diffuse, all from the same clutch. All of these photos were taken before their first sheds.
 
Old 12-30-2011, 08:32 PM   #4
Susan
The first 3 photos are of different diffuse siblings (2 females and the 3rd is a male) of yet another clutch (2010)
Last 2 photos are of a 2011 diffuse male taken post first shed and then post second shed.
 
Old 12-30-2011, 08:44 PM   #5
Susan
First photo - male diffuse caramel post first shed (July 2011) - full sibling to the snakes in the first and second post
Second photo - diffuse female pre first shed (Aug '09)
Third photo - same female in blue (Feb '10)
Fourth photo - granite female not produced by me at about 6 months of age
 
Old 12-30-2011, 08:46 PM   #6
Susan
Same yearling diffuse female (not produced by me) in blue (1st photo) and freshly shed (2nd photo). Different angle and lighting as well (outside in shade with a flash, then inside under fluorescent bulb with a flash).
 
Old 12-31-2011, 06:59 AM   #7
NiklasTyreso
I do not understand what you want to show. I just see plain bellies = no black checkers in any of your pics.
 
Old 12-31-2011, 09:08 AM   #8
Pasodama
Of course, we know that translucent ventral scales/areas are not present in all adult Bloods (none of my adult Bloods/Blood based Corns have them). Thus, it is a fail, as an indicator, for adults.

However, there does appear to be a high liklihood, of translucent ventral scales/areas being present, in Blood Hatchlings.
Although, as you seem to have found, it does not seem to be present (or, at least, not obviously present) in every single Blood hatchling.

I took a look at my 2011 Bloods, & Blood Based, young'uns. While a high percentage had some translucent ventral scales/areas, it was not obviously present with 100% of them (and there is ~no doubt~ they are all Homozygous Blood).

Perhaps it would be obvious in 100% of freshly hatched Bloods? Especially since it seems more prevalent the younger that a young'un is.
I don't really know if it would be.
Will be something I need to remember to check, in my freshly hatched Bloods, next year.

'Course, I am going to be taking a look at all non-Bloods too.
 
Old 12-31-2011, 01:05 PM   #9
DMong
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasTyreso View Post
I do not understand what you want to show. I just see plain bellies = no black checkers in any of your pics.
It's not about any checkering whatsoever. It's about if the homozygous blood/diffused snakes have a tell-tale clear/translucent area in the middle portions of their ventrals as a 100% reliable indicator as to them being homozygous, or not. It seems that it is a "relatively" good indicator for a percentage of them when very young, but it is obviously not for all blood/diffuse based phenotypes. I couldn't make heads or tales from alot of the pics posted so far, but others where quite obvious.

Also, if non-blood/diffused animals displayed any translucent patches on their ventrals, this would also blow the theory completely out of the water..



~Doug
 
Old 12-31-2011, 02:04 PM   #10
Susan
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasTyreso View Post
I do not understand what you want to show. I just see plain bellies = no black checkers in any of your pics.
I probably should have mentioned this thread about identifying stripes from striped bloods, which is what started this thread. It might clarify things for you. And yes, I know not all of my photos are perfect but most give you an idea of what those translucent/clear patches will look like if they are present in a diffuse hatchling.
 

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