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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

BUF gene
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:14 PM   #61
Russell
that still doesn't answer the question.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:16 PM   #62
Russell
oops, hit the return button too soon...

Anyhow, I've tried hard to make the point that no matter how many other genes are in the mix, if something is homozygous caramel, it CAN be used to test another animal for the Caramel gene.

And no, just cause an animal has lots of yellow does not mean it's het Caramel. There are plenty of other morphs with lots of yellow that are not caramel or het caramel.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:19 PM   #63
Russell
Shiari,
if the Buf was het amel bred to a butter, you'd see amels and normals if the Buf wasn't het caramel. If it was het caramel or actually a caramel, the babies would be caramels and butters. And if only het caramel, there would be some normals and amels too.

I don't have the results in front of me. The Buf gene did nothing for me. I'm just on this bandwagon enjoy find out the true intent of some with a thread that got going and I got exactly what I expected.

But am also trying to answer a basic genetics problem.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:20 PM   #64
Russell
As stated in the Cornsnake Morph Guide 2010 by Charles Pritzel, it states that the Buf WAS bred to a Caramel and proven to be a distinct gene.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:21 PM   #65
carnivorouszoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
that still doesn't answer the question.
yes it does. You just refuse to believe it. I'm not going to come back to this. Beating our brains out against your brick wall is killing some of us. And I just joined in, I need an asprin.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:22 PM   #66
JimGERcream
hmm I don't know if anyone in this thread knowes what this "discussion" looks like for someone who's doesn't know anything about the personal differences between some forum members... For me, some things in this thread sound indeed very rude and somebody might have the impression that some people just try to slam the "buf thing".

Of course, I'm not interested in buf, but I think sneering at slangenbroed or other members is not the right way to talk about it

I hope I don't jumble anything up...
In germany, there were several animals popped out which are pretty similar to buf. NOBODY knowes if these animals are in fact the same as slangenbroed animals but I just wanted to say one thing, these "buf-like" animals popped out in a caramel line from breeding hom. caramel striped to hom. caramel striped, in the clutch weren't just caramel striped, there were also some strange butter stripeds which turned out to be very orange and not comparable to regular butter stripeds. the breeder noticed this difference and named them "Auratum" striped.

Another breeding, another breeder: pairing was caramelbloodred het amel x caramel striped het amel (same caramel striped line as above). In the clutch were animals which had to be hom. caramel but they DO look different. Phenotypically it's something between normal and caramel respectively amel and butter. It seems as if the inheritance of this auratum thing is similar to the buf: some kind of dominant! very weird!! but one thing is clear, there's something going on

pics here in these threads...notice the "butter het blood striped" baby on page 1 and the "caramel het blood striped" on page 2!
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=151

in this thread is a nice comparison between regular caramel striped and "auratum caramel striped" in the 4th posting
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopi...ighlight=#4386

long story short: still more confusion
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:24 PM   #67
carnivorouszoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
oops, hit the return button too soon...

Anyhow, I've tried hard to make the point that no matter how many other genes are in the mix, if something is homozygous caramel, it CAN be used to test another animal for the Caramel gene.

And no, just cause an animal has lots of yellow does not mean it's het Caramel. There are plenty of other morphs with lots of yellow that are not caramel or het caramel.
You totally missed the point. I have yet to see an AMEL that is in and of itself high yellow. That was one example of a het affecting the appearance. While it does not happen in all it does happen in some. I already said I am leaving so now I really am. Geeze.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:26 PM   #68
Russell
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorouszoo View Post
yes it does. You just refuse to believe it. I'm not going to come back to this. Beating our brains out against your brick wall is killing some of us. And I just joined in, I need an asprin.
oh, so being het amel gives a snake red eyes, and oh a couple white spots for good measure?

Come on! you know better! And at this point it has not been proven that het caramels show any more yellow than animals that aren't. One needs to do a breeding of het caramels, hold all the babies, and then breed to caramels and prove that the babies that are most yellow indeed have the caramel gene versus the ones not showing any yellow. This hasn't been done yet.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:27 PM   #69
mike17l
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimGERcream View Post
I hope I don't jumble anything up...
In germany, there were several animals popped out which are pretty similar to buf. NOBODY knowes if these animals are in fact the same as slangenbroed animals but I just wanted to say one thing, these "buf-like" animals popped out in a caramel line from breeding hom. caramel striped to hom. caramel striped, in the clutch weren't just caramel striped, there were also some strange butter stripeds which turned out to be very orange and not comparable to regular butter stripeds. the breeder noticed this difference and named them "Auratum" striped.

Another breeding, another breeder: pairing was caramelbloodred het amel x caramel striped het amel (same caramel striped line as above). In the clutch were animals which had to be hom. caramel but they DO look different. Phenotypically it's something between normal and caramel respectively amel and butter. It seems as if the inheritance of this auratum thing is similar to the buf: some kind of dominant! very weird!! but one thing is clear, there's something going on

pics here in these threads...notice the "butter het blood striped" baby on page 1 and the "caramel het blood striped" on page 2!
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=151

in this thread is a nice comparison between regular caramel striped and "auratum caramel striped" in the 4th posting
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopi...ighlight=#4386

long story short: still more confusion
All that can easily be explained by the variation seen in any morph. And, neither of those links worked for me by the way.
 
Old 02-24-2010, 03:28 PM   #70
Russell
and so your point is, the amel gene does influence the Caramel gene? where, where is an example that this has happened. Prove it.

An animal that is Caramel het amel isn't going to look any different than a Caramel het for nothing.
 

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