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The Cultivars (morphs)/Genetics Issues Discussions about genetics issues and/or the various cultivars for cornsnakes commercially available.

On the subject of supposedly blue corns...
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:20 PM   #1
On the subject of supposedly blue corns...

And hopefully Rich will forgive me posting a link to that "other" site, but someone's supposedly got some 'blue' motley corns for sale. Again, I don't really see the blue in the picture. Thoughts? Comments?

'Blue' motley corns

The ad in question

Old 02-02-2004, 04:25 PM   #2
I saw those too... and I don't see the "blue" either. They look like anery motleys to me.

I've dealt with the people who placed that ad.. and had troubles with them before.

Old 02-02-2004, 04:28 PM   #3
Darin Chappell
I always get myself into trouble over issues like these, so I am going to go way overboard on trying not to jump to conclusions on this. HOWEVER . . . statements like this one just kill me!

"As of yet, they are not sure what actually produces the "blue", but it is genetic..."

Huh? You have no idea WHAT causes the "blue," but you're SURE it's genetic????

Also ... "Kathy Love actually looked at these and could not figure it out..."

It may very well be that Kathy has actually seen some of these animals. It may even be true that she thought they were somewhat different in their appearance. It might even be the case that she did not know what they were. I would be really interested to know whether they actually got Kathy's permission to use her name and reputation as a sideways selling point!

If so, more power to them! If not, they ought to be ashamed!

Old 02-02-2004, 06:04 PM   #4

I don't see it either. I would think that if you wanted to represent your product you would get the best pics to show them off. Those pics don't show me anything different or blue about those animals.

Name dropping for a selling point is tacky, in my opinion. If your giving credit where credit is due thats another matter. Know your animals and stand on your own when you represent them

I hope I'm not sounding too mean but there are so many ripoffs out there.
Old 02-02-2004, 07:35 PM   #5
I wonder if these are related to the other "blue motleys" I've heard of. I saw some "blue motleys" at the Tinley Park show. I don't get where the word "blue" comes from, because I didn't see anything "blue" about them even when I was up close and staring at them.

I still think it would be nice if people would apply the "10 foot test" before using a color as a name. If corns were all anerythristic, I'm sure there'd be "orange" morphs and "red" morphs by now, too.

So, when are the purple corns coming? Oh, when someone breeds that "blue" gene into normal corns, I guess those will make "purple." (hooray...)

As for this, "As of yet, they are not sure what actually produces the "blue", but it is genetic..." IMO it speaks volumes.
Old 02-02-2004, 08:11 PM   #6
I think I remember the email, but can't remember my reply. Probably depended on the photo sent. Pretty hard to tell things by photo. I get a lot of emails and photos asking for ID or best guesses. It is getting to the point where you can't even visually ID a hypo anymore, let alone anything that could be unusual. The one posted on the forum didn't look too impressive. Maybe that person will post a bigger, better photo here so we can all see it. So much depends on lighting, too.

I have had people ask me for a blue corn like the one on the Manual cover. I hadn't noticed it when it was first published, but the Miami phase does sort of have a bluish cast on the front of the book. Sure wish it looked blue in person.
Old 02-04-2004, 12:58 AM   #7
Unhappy I say no blue!

I am very skeptical of "new" morphs anymore. I also saw that ad and while they are nice looking snakes, I would NOT call them BLUE by any means. Someone will still buy those snakes under the pretense that they are actually a new blue morph that may bring in lots of money. Who knows? It very well could be but I doubt it. Its not the first time nor will it be the last. Everyone loves to see unusual looking versions of existing morphs AND the thought of more morphs is exciting, HOWEVER, it is easy to get caught up in it all.

Too many people are far too willing to take our money. It is hard to differentiate between honest sellers and frauds. In fact, I won't buy off the internet anymore unless its a highly recommended seller. Otherwise I'll take my chances at the reptile shows where you can at least see the animal in person.

Take a minute to check out the intriguing thread on fauna's BOI about the fraud commited by Carolina Reptile Exchange....they sold countless numbers of normal ball pythons as being het for piebald (among many other bad things). Anyway, hets are another issue all together!

I think its healthy to be skeptical. Heck, I am still somewhat skeptical of the lava corns, especially since my friend bought a hypo last year that could easily pass for a lava without question. In fact, it could very well be a new form of hypo...LOL. I don't know the history behind how many lavas were sold to the public or if the hets ended up anywhere, but its identical. However, its his 1st and only corn and is a pet not a breeder so he's not looking to profit from it or test breed it.

It's scary to think its easy to get ripped off but it simply happens way too much with reptiles anymore. WE MUST CONTINUE TO BE CAREFUL AND LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER!! Look for the THREAD ON THE BOI that I mentioned above!...its like a good book, you won't be able to stop reading....i promise!

ps...the above blue color is what i would expect to see on a true 'blue' corn!
Old 02-04-2004, 04:25 PM   #8

The photos are bad I know, but I am inclined to be a little more open minded. I think we should talk about the possible genetics involved and not be worried at this point about getting ripped off. Nobody has to buy anything if they don't want to. It is very hard to talk about the genetics involved if the person who has them doesn't know either. It would be nice to get some more information from the breeder about their crosses with other morphs. Did they cross it with and anery a and b homo morph and get normals, or just get anerys and no "Blues"?

This photo appears to be a comparison photo I hope. The one on the left does look to have a deluted background color like one of my Lavenders I have.
Old 02-04-2004, 04:37 PM   #9
Comparison photo Lavender and ?

Here is a comparison photo between a Lavender Corn and her odd ball Lavender sibling. I do not know what the genetics involved are or if it is reproducable, but the difference between these Lavenders is simular to the difference in the above Anery Motleys.

It does sound like the "Blue" Motleys are reproducable, so that would indicate that some type of genetics is involved and not just a deformity in the egg or something. I am going to try to track down some more info.

It is very unlikely that we will ever see a "BLUE" Corn. I do agree that its application in this case will never be accepted. Blue is used quite a bit to describe colors in other animal groups. Blue Rats are not blue, but a blue steel color. Blue Healers are not "BLUE" either. Are Lavender Corns really Lavender? Well, kind of. It is an appropriate name though. Some Lavender Corns are more lavender colored than others.
Old 02-04-2004, 05:52 PM   #10
Double Homos? Motley too of course.

I was thinking of the possible genetics of the "Blue" Motleys and began to contemplate the idea that they were homo anery a and lav or Homo anery b and lav. I remembered a thread in Rich Z photo gallery Lav/Anery A and just read through it. It doesn't seem clear what a homo lav/anery a or homo lav/anery b looks like. Lavender may cover up anery a or it may not, I am not sure yet. It is hard to tell a homo hypo/amel from an amel, but in some examples it can be seen.

Clint posted a photo of an "anery a I think" and got the responce below. This is more evidence that it may be reproducable at least. I will let Clint post the photo here if he wants to, but it does have a simular look to the "Blue" Motleys and lets not forget that the Motley gene lightens the color a little so I would expect them to look a shade lighter.

Hey Clint!
That youngster up there looks a lot like the "New Blue Motleys" that I've seen at a few of the shows out here in Texas!
A definite blue cast to it.
Very pretty!

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