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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity.

2 snakes, 1 cage?
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:25 AM   #31
starsevol
Well, let's see...the first 3 pictures are not cornsnakes. Those don't count as they are different species.
In the last picture it is obviously 2 cornsnake being forced to co hab in captivity that are competing for that hide. They are not snuggling, they are competing.

Can you name one single way in which co habbing BENEFITS a snake? NOT the owner, the SNAKE??

We all keep pets for personal enjoyment, but when you disregard their well being and go against their nature, you aren't much of a pet owner. My pets come FIRST.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:40 AM   #32
patches152
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
Well, let's see...the first 3 pictures are not cornsnakes. Those don't count as they are different species.
In the last picture it is obviously 2 cornsnake being forced to co hab in captivity that are competing for that hide. They are not snuggling, they are competing.

Can you name one single way in which co habbing BENEFITS a snake? NOT the owner, the SNAKE??

We all keep pets for personal enjoyment, but when you disregard their well being and go against their nature, you aren't much of a pet owner. My pets come FIRST.
you didn't specify corn snakes, you just said snakes. that's what i provided you with.

btw, that last picture was a pair of snakes BREEDING. they're a mated pair, like i've been referencing throughout this conversation.

at the end of the day, what you and i have to say is an opinion. with that said, my opinion is based on first hand experience with cohabitating corn snakes, no issues, no stress. that's all i was trying to do. your scare tactics of "but like omg they'll eat each other and stuff" isn't fair to new owners. provide them with unbiased facts, and let them make their own decisions. i see very little of that on this particular forum, i do see a lot of blind repeating of information that people admit they learned from this forum, not from an expert.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:41 AM   #33
starsevol
Well let's see now, 6 people other than myself have said co habbing is improper husbandry. One of those people has a degree in wildlife management.
But they must allll be wrong, and you right?

I don't think so!!!!

The sad thing is that a teacher should know better. A teacher should do research before bringing in classroom pets. And every child that sees those cornsnakes thinks that co habbing is fine.

And it's not.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:46 AM   #34
starsevol
Quote:
Originally Posted by patches152 View Post
you didn't specify corn snakes, you just said snakes. that's what i provided you with.

btw, that last picture was a pair of snakes BREEDING. they're a mated pair, like i've been referencing throughout this conversation.

at the end of the day, what you and i have to say is an opinion. with that said, my opinion is based on first hand experience with cohabitating corn snakes, no issues, no stress. that's all i was trying to do. your scare tactics of "but like omg they'll eat each other and stuff" isn't fair to new owners. provide them with unbiased facts, and let them make their own decisions. i see very little of that on this particular forum, i do see a lot of blind repeating of information that people admit they learned from this forum, not from an expert.
Ever hear the expression "there is never a problem, until there is a problem?"
Just because you have never had a problem does not mean that you know what you are doing, it just means that so far you have been lucky.

As far as experts go,
The man who runs this site just retired, but he was the largest cornsnake breeder in the country and has discovered many new morphs.

And several members ARE experts and leaders in the reptile field.
Ever hear of Rich Zuchowski?
Kathy Love?
Don Sodersburg?
Lee Abbott?

Just because you have never had a problem and your mother the teacher has never had a problem does not make it right.
Back in the 1950s parents did not use car seats. Most kids survived.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:47 AM   #35
susang
Quote:
Originally Posted by patches152 View Post
.

at the end of the day, what you and i have to say is an opinion. with that said, my opinion is based on first hand experience with cohabitating corn snakes, no issues, no stress. that's all i was trying to do. your scare tactics of "but like omg they'll eat each other and stuff" isn't fair to new owners. provide them with unbiased facts, and let them make their own decisions. i see very little of that on this particular forum, i do see a lot of blind repeating of information that people admit they learned from this forum, not from an expert.

I do believe by recommending the search function it will give unbaised opinions. Information learned from this forum being repeated sure, we learned form Kathy Love, Rich Hume, Rich Z, Marcel Poots, Dr Mohr and many more who have been around corn snakes a year or two.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:49 AM   #36
patches152
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
Well let's see now, 6 people other than myself have said co habbing is improper husbandry. One of those people has a degree in wildlife management.
But they must allll be wrong, and you right?

I don't think so!!!!

The sad thing is that a teacher should know better. A teacher should do research before bringing in classroom pets. And every child that sees those cornsnakes thinks that co habbing is fine.

And it's not.
so far, improper husbandry that has been stated has been cannibalism (which is an issue with youth, which ive admitted is a possibility, so is a non issue as far as this conversation goes). aside from that, the only other complaint is "unwanted pregnancy". stress is something you can see through actions, and appropriate actions can be taken accordingly. moving a snake to a new tank can cause stress, not enough humidity during shedding or not enough heat during digestion can cause stress. i see tons and tons of post about bad sheds and regurgitations, etc...THAT is cruelty to animals.

at this point, i'm not convinced that two adults that get along in one tank can be considered poor husbandry, as you state it.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:52 AM   #37
starsevol
Susan, I forgot about Marcel Poots, Dr Mohr and Rich Hume!!!

Patchy, you talk about adults "getting along together" in a cage, but they don't. That's the point.
Pet shops co hab corns to save space, and have very little interest in the animals themselves.

Like I asked before,
how does co habbing BENEFIT the snake??
Do you have an answer?
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:56 AM   #38
starsevol
But yeah patchy, all the REAL experts who have dedicated their entire lives to this species..they are allll wrong. And YOU are right!!

At least in your own head you are.......
 
Old 01-11-2011, 01:13 AM   #39
VickyChaiTea
Oh my gosh... really? Wow, what an amazingly weak argument, patches152. :/ Those pictures you provided? The garter snakes are mating, that's a natural behavior that is seen after the snakes come out of brumation. This is NOT proof of being a social animal. It's proof that they MATE. The rattlesnakes? In all honesty that seems to me like a photo from one of those "rattlesnake roundups" If you wanna talk about animal cruelty, look into those. Providing us of a photo of animals being rounded up to be slaughtered does not support your argument one bit.

And corn snakes being forced into the same enclosure so that the male mates with the female REGARDLESS of whether or not she's ready is supporting your argument... how? All that photo of the corn snakes together proves is that they can mate, whether you are ready for eggs or not, and whether the female is ready or not.

You asked for someones degree, implying that hearing that information would make you reconsider what they have had to say on the subject. You were provided with evidence of a degree, and yet you still ignore their insight. How mature. That's a big sign of knowing you're wrong but not admitting it.

You have been proven with multiple pieces of evidence that stress HAS been the problem with snakes being cohabbed. You have yet to give us definitive evidence that they are consistently NOT stressed enough to be a cause of concern.

And don't you dare imply that your mother snakes suffered when they were separated BECAUSE they were separated. Correlation does not equal causation, seriously. And how often do those snakes escape? I realize escapes can happen to anyone, but if it's been a common thing perhaps something should be done about that. :/

All in all, you should do some research of your own and stop using anecdotal evidence. Don't even try to prove something if you haven't even looked into it first. Educate yourself, then come back to us.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 01:14 AM   #40
VickyChaiTea
Oops, also forgot one thing. Give us some pros of cohabitating snakes.
 

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