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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity.

View Poll Results: do you agree with co housing snakes?
yes 13 4.87%
no 189 70.79%
yes if same species 31 11.61%
No if different species 2 0.75%
only if they are monitored 32 11.99%
Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

co housing snakes
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Old 05-30-2008, 01:41 PM   #81
SNAKEWISPERA
Yup...The Kings are happy together,
they have been playing tag all day, chasing each other round the viv,
 
Old 05-30-2008, 01:44 PM   #82
snakewispera snr
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic View Post
My guess would be Mike's pulling his/her leg...
mmmmmmm....Cover blown...LOL
Sorry 7d7....Bit trollish I know, I just couldn't help myself. I had to get one more in before 'The Oxford English dictionary' removes Gullible from the list of official English words.....
 
Old 05-30-2008, 01:55 PM   #83
7Dseven
This cohabbing thing has really stirred some people up. I didnt "choose" to cohab. I just took them in as rescues, the way they already were. Cohabbed. I am researching whether to leave them that way or not. 99% on this forum have sent me very strong opinions on not cohabbing. Some could really have been a little nicer about it but hey, thats life. Some people are nice, some are a holes. (Sorry) To each his own. We are all allowed to have our opinions. I just didnt expect to get chewed out for keeping them together. I didnt mean to stir up this much mess. Some people says its great that I am trying to save these snakes, others say I should not take them in if I can not seperate them and care for them proper. I guess leaving them to die would have been a better idea?
To those of you who have sent me support for taking in these rescues.... thank you! I really appreciate it along with all the help I recieved trying to save "Chance". Who is doing much better by the way.
To those of you who dont care about the good I am trying to do and only want to look down on me for cohabbing, I am sorry you feel that way. You almost made me feel bad about taking them in, but, I know in my heart that these last 3 would not have lived much longer had I not stepped in. Even cohabbed they are better off than they would have been. I understand your opinion, may even agree, but I would never jump someone the way that a few have done.
To those of you who choose to cohab. I wont say I am for or against it yet. If it works for you, great. I will continue to research it before I make an informed decision. I dont want to just base my decision on opinions.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 02:17 PM   #84
snakewispera snr
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Dseven View Post
I didnt mean to stir up this much mess. Some people says its great that I am trying to save these snakes, others say I should not take them in if I can not seperate them and care for them proper. I guess leaving them to die would have been a better idea?
If you had read the entire thread instead of voting and posting you would of saw that co-hab is not done here, rescue or not.
Use your head here, rack them up separate. snakes hang out like that in the wild, they eat and hide to digest, if you handle them regular, whats the problem......
 
Old 05-30-2008, 02:34 PM   #85
kathylove
As I have said on MANY other threads about the subject, I am not ENTIRELY against cohabbing, just ALMOST entirely against it. I have known of a couple of instances where very experienced keepers set up community tanks with certain herps in large, enriched enclosures, and found it to be entertaining, educational, and kept healthy herps that way.

But I ALWAYS advise beginners and intermediate keepers to avoid cohabbing because it just adds complications and dangers (the symptoms of which can be very subtle to the untrained eye), and beginners have enough to learn even when keeping things simple.

For example, you said something earlier about supposed males. That made it sound like you are not positive and have not sexed them yourself. Even if you did, sexing is about 95% accurate, not 100%. I have made a few mistakes myself, and I have sexed LOTS of babies, lol! If you got as many calls and emails each spring as I do, from people who have unexpected eggs from a very young female that is having problems, then you would also be concerned about inexperienced keepers cohabbing.

In many cases it can be done successfully for years and years. But in some cases it spells disaster. You just can't be sure until it happens. I do commend you for taking in some babies that would have died. Sounds like they are much better off with you. And you sound like you are truly trying to do your best. Once you have a few years experience and you really know your individual animals well, don't always give up your own judgment or willingness to experiment (in an educated way) to the crowds who are sure they know best. We would never learn anything new if everyone did that.

But when you take on a new project, hobby, etc, it is often best to go with the established ways that have been shown to work best - that is what I do when starting something new. Once I feel proficient at the new undertaking, that is when I may decide to try new things and prove the "experts" wrong.

Good luck with the rescues, whatever you decide to do.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 02:39 PM   #86
snakewispera snr
Right what more do you want...GOD just spoke to you telling you it's not the best idea...
 
Old 05-30-2008, 02:44 PM   #87
7Dseven
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakewispera snr View Post
If you had read the entire thread instead of voting and posting you would of saw that co-hab is not done here, rescue or not.
Use your head here, rack them up separate. snakes hang out like that in the wild, they eat and hide to digest, if you handle them regular, whats the problem......

Voting? Was there a vote? I guess I missed that. My first post was asking for help to save my smallest rescue. Then I searched for threads on co-habbing so I could get some ideas on if I should seperate them even though some of these guys have lived together for 2 years before I got them. My original 2 snakes are not co-habbed. But since these last 2 sets of rescues were co-habbed, I thought I should look into it.
And obviously some people co-hab based on all the threads etc I have found. Maybe thats wrong. But thats what I am trying to find out. Never said I was for co-habbing, or that I would leave these guys together permanently. I only said I dont like the rubbermaid idea. I dont want to have so many snakes that thats what I have to go to. I like the tank idea better. Besides the fact that it looks better in my living room. And so far, knock on wood, leaving them together as they already were, has not been a problem. They appear to be used to it having been brought up together. That being said, I also stated that I plan to build something that will have the tank style but I can house more of them in a smaller space. That way they can each have their own tank. I do believe, thats using my head.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 03:02 PM   #88
snakewispera snr
Your right.... Sorry.
It's just you come along in a long line of, my snakes are happy together brigade. Maybe if you lurked a bit more and seen the general consensus of opinion on co-hab it would of stopped you posting.
I can see you are trying to do the best for your snakes, and you have probably come to the best place for it. So I shouldn't get all up myself and help out if I can...Sorry again and stick around.....AND BLOODY LISTEN ....RIGHT.....LOL....
 
Old 05-30-2008, 03:46 PM   #89
7Dseven
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathylove View Post
As I have said on MANY other threads about the subject, I am not ENTIRELY against cohabbing, just ALMOST entirely against it. I have known of a couple of instances where very experienced keepers set up community tanks with certain herps in large, enriched enclosures, and found it to be entertaining, educational, and kept healthy herps that way.

But I ALWAYS advise beginners and intermediate keepers to avoid cohabbing because it just adds complications and dangers (the symptoms of which can be very subtle to the untrained eye), and beginners have enough to learn even when keeping things simple.

For example, you said something earlier about supposed males. That made it sound like you are not positive and have not sexed them yourself. Even if you did, sexing is about 95% accurate, not 100%. I have made a few mistakes myself, and I have sexed LOTS of babies, lol! If you got as many calls and emails each spring as I do, from people who have unexpected eggs from a very young female that is having problems, then you would also be concerned about inexperienced keepers cohabbing.

In many cases it can be done successfully for years and years. But in some cases it spells disaster. You just can't be sure until it happens. I do commend you for taking in some babies that would have died. Sounds like they are much better off with you. And you sound like you are truly trying to do your best. Once you have a few years experience and you really know your individual animals well, don't always give up your own judgment or willingness to experiment (in an educated way) to the crowds who are sure they know best. We would never learn anything new if everyone did that.

But when you take on a new project, hobby, etc, it is often best to go with the established ways that have been shown to work best - that is what I do when starting something new. Once I feel proficient at the new undertaking, that is when I may decide to try new things and prove the "experts" wrong.

Good luck with the rescues, whatever you decide to do.


Thanks you soo much for the advice. No I myself have not probed them. And no I dont guarantee that the reptile store did, or got it right. Right now, I was just told that they were probed and that they are 2 girls together and now these newest were supposidly all boys together. The weakest was not returned to the tank. Didnt want him stressing out thinking he had to compete with his buddies. He is soo weak. But I have not seperated the others, yet. They are only together, because they were already together. My first concern was their health. Since I plan to keep them, thought I had better find out if they should be allowed to stay together or if I should seperate them. I never expected this much negative feedback.
Actually the first thing I did when we got our 1st snake was buy one of your books and have been reading it to learn all I can. Co-hab never even came up till I took in the 2 female rescues last month. And now these latest 3 males. I want to do whats best for them so I really appreciate your input. That was my reason for researching co-habbing. Thank you for offering support and advice without jumping me for the current situation. I appreciate the knowledge that those of you who have so much experience can share. Being somewhat a newbie, I welcome constructive help.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 03:59 PM   #90
kathylove
You can pretty much assume that all new pets are under stress trying to adjust to a new home. If they are healthy, they can handle a little stress fine. But coping with more stress, such as handling (if they aren't used to it), sickness, injury, improper temps or hiding places, or cagemates, will all add to the stress load of each snake. Some snakes (like some people) handle stress fine. But if they are exposed to pathogens, especially large numbers of them (which is more likely when cohabbing), the more stress they are under, the more likely they will be unable to fight off the pathogen. That could be true of even simple, ever-present microbes such as Salmonella, which is often present in low numbers in herps, and usually does not cause them a problem.

In my opinion, stress is highly under rated as a factor in weak or failure to thrive herps. Each new stress piled on top of another stress makes it more likely that the immune system will not be able to cope with whatever it may be presented with. So it is much better to try to add new or unnecessary stresses (such as cagemates, handling, changing type of substrate, etc) one at a time instead of all at once, or not at all if you can avoid it, especially in a weak animal.
 

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