Live Feeding

Originally Posted by batwrangler

Stunning the mouse in this way seems entirely pointless: If you're giving your snake a stunned mouse, you might as well just give it a frozen/thawed mouse instead, which is also more humane for BOTH the snake and the mouse.

Somehow, I get the feeling that being "humane" is really not a concern here.

FWIW my snakes strike and constrict f/t prey as long as I offer it in tongs and give it a little shake

Roxanne has literally snatched the tweezers from my hands she has struck a F/T mouse so hard.

And she's a small snake.

Regards,
Steve

Originally Posted by batwrangler

A better way to ensure the mouse is the proper temperature and prevent damage to the snake while being as humane as possible to the mouse would be fresh-killing the mouse through cervical dislocation.

Banging the mouse against the wall to stun it is needlessly cruel to the mouse.

FWIW my snakes strike and constrict f/t prey as long as I offer it in tongs and give it a little shake, so the one possible benefit of "exercising" the snake doesn't apply.

So I just looked up Cervical dislocation, and I have to say that's nasty. I don't even think I could touch a mouse/rat long enough to do that. I have a hard enough time holding the tail and knocking it against the wall.

As far as being cruel to the mouse, to be honest the mouse is food to my snake, I'm not worried about being "Cruel" to it.

I don't really like to bang the head of the mouse/rat to be honest, its just an extra precaution I take when feeding live

I don't even think I could touch a mouse/rat long enough to do that.

I'll let you in on a little secret...if they're F/T...they don't move, squeal or scratch

Regards,
Steve

Originally Posted by HaisseM

These are snipes made towards me because of my difference of opinion not because anybody actually knows me. This is what gets annoying

The way I read this situation, and, of course, ymmv, is that you seem to be very aggressively holding minority opinions and the majority who hold different opinions are responding aggressively in turn.

Whether you mean to or not, you come across as unwilling to listen to other people and far too willing to try to get the moderators to delete posts that challenge your positions.

As someone who does not agree with your husbandry practices, I feel a responsibility to counter your minority advice so that the new keepers seeing the range of advice being offered can determine for themselves what are minority and majority opinions before deciding for themselves which advice they should follow.

Originally Posted by batwrangler

Stunning the mouse in this way seems entirely pointless: If you're giving your snake a stunned mouse, you might as well just give it a frozen/thawed mouse instead, which is also more humane for BOTH the snake and the mouse.

Regarding the "may as well feed F/T" point : not necessarily; please see my prior point regarding exercise in constriction. On top of that, if the snake is refusing EVERYTHING but live, a stunned mouse provides a heartbeat and a twitching movement that will induce a strike while providing relative safety to the snake.

Regarding the "more humane" point: It's obvious, and I don't mean to condescend, but it's the first law of nature: In order for some things to live, some other things gotta die.

regards,
jazz

Originally Posted by batwrangler

The way I read this situation, and, of course, ymmv, is that you seem to be very aggressively holding minority opinions and the majority who hold different opinions are responding aggressively in turn.

Whether you mean to or not, you come across as unwilling to listen to other people and far too willing to try to get the moderators to delete posts that challenge your positions.

As someone who does not agree with your husbandry practices, I feel a responsibility to counter your minority advice so that the new keepers seeing the range of advice being offered can determine for themselves what are minority and majority opinions before deciding for themselves which advice they should follow.

Again, I don't mind the difference of opinion. I have not once said I'm right you're wrong and you have to do it my way (not directed towards you just in general)

I've never once asked a mod to delete a post that challenged my position

All I've said about post are, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS/INSULTS. Trust me I want to strike back, but I'm trying to act like an adult.

Originally Posted by HaisseM

So I just looked up Cervical dislocation, and I have to say that's nasty. I don't even think I could touch a mouse/rat long enough to do that. I have a hard enough time holding the tail and knocking it against the wall.

As far as being cruel to the mouse, to be honest the mouse is food to my snake, I'm not worried about being "Cruel" to it.

I don't really like to bang the head of the mouse/rat to be honest, its just an extra precaution I take when feeding live

Yup, like I said, being "humane" is not a concern with certain.....people.

Originally Posted by jazzgeek

Regarding the "may as well feed F/T" point : not necessarily; please see my prior point regarding exercise in constriction. On top of that, if the snake is refusing EVERYTHING but live, a stunned mouse provides a heartbeat and a twitching movement that will induce a strike while providing relative safety to the snake.

Regarding the "more humane" point: It's obvious, and I don't mean to condescend, but it's the first law of nature: In order for some things to live, some other things gotta die.

regards,
jazz

I agree that feeding live may be necessary in rare situations and I don't object to that at all.

As I mentioned up-thread, my snakes are all too happy to constrict f/t mice, so the exercise argument doesn't work for me.

I also have no objection to some creatures dying to feed other creatures, but I do strenuously object to unnecessary cruelty, and barring the absolute need to feed live to an otherwise non-feeding snake, I believe feeding live, even feeding stunned live, is unnecessarily cruel.

As distasteful as cervical dislocation is, it is an approved, humane way to dispatch feeder mice, and if one is not feeding frozen thawed (which will have been humanely euthanized with CO2), it is the most responsible way to go.

Originally Posted by starsevol

Yup, like I said, being "humane" is not a concern with certain.....people.

Ironic that HaisseM is asking for civility and though you may disagree with his practices (and I certainly do), this couldn't be any more passive/aggressive.

Let's take a deep breath, everyone.

My two cents.

regards,
jazz