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Husbandry and Basic Care General stuff about keeping and maintaining cornsnakes in captivity. |
Live Feeding
10-03-2007, 05:30 PM
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#51
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It's not personal for me either.
Not really.
But acting like a know-it-all does tend to rub people the wrong way.
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10-03-2007, 05:30 PM
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#52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmith_1187
HaisseM,
For me at least, it's not personal. What people have an issue with are your husbandry practices (see the "Corns living together?? Yes or no?" thread).
You talked about risk and how we assume risks each and every day in our lives…yada-yada-yada.
What people are seeing, by you letting them, are those risky practices. I'm sorry but on this board you WILL be called out on them.
Regards,
Steve
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Yes I have risky practices compared to others on this board, and thats understandable. I do understand some people take things more seriously than others and have no problem with that. Heck like i said before I don't mind being called out, but what do you mean called out? By saying their are other options? or by saying i'm a horrible person, because to me, saying their are other options is closer to calling me out then saying i'm a horrible person
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10-03-2007, 05:34 PM
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#53
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Actually, it's not...but OK.
Quote:
some people take things more seriously than others
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When you're responsible for the care of another living creature (parent, spouse, child, dog, cat, snake, mouse, etc.)...that's about as serious as it gets.
Regards,
Steve
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10-03-2007, 05:35 PM
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#54
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^^^ wish I could rep you for that!
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10-03-2007, 05:36 PM
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#55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaisseM
So how do you feed them live? Do you just drop the rat/mouse in the cage or do you take certain precautions? What precautions do you take when you have no choice but to feed live?
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Well with these ones, here was the thing....I threw the mouse in without doing a thing to it. Yes, that is more risky, much more than stunning it or freshly killing it, but it was one way or another.
The boas were at the place of loosing weight rapidly, one had been gravid, but due to care before I got her, she had trouble with the clutch and all the eggs were lost, so she hadn't eaten in some time. They were also wild caught from Africa (I didn't know that at the time, was lied to) so it was hard to tell when their last meal was, and finally, they are sand boas. They are secretive, they hunt by being under the substrate and the prey walking over or near their heads. Having one laying there twiching wouldn't have helped, dead ones laid all night, trap them in a seperate bin with a dead one and it stayed all night as well. I tried every trick I heard of. But the boas were at the point that in a few more weeks, there would have been no turning back, so I took the risk of a bite. What I hope is to jump start their feeding response so I can get them on F/T. The female first refused live as well, when I tried her the second time, I had to cover the cage completely alone, very risky, but I was at no choice. So far I haven't had a corn refuse f/t and while I did have a stubborn feeder, we came to see eye to eye on the matter, lol.
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10-03-2007, 05:36 PM
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#56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmith_1187
Actually, it's not...but OK.
When you're responsible for the care of another living creature (parent, spouse, child, dog, cat, snake, mouse, etc.)...that's about as serious as it gets.
Regards,
Steve
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That's where we disagree, I don't consider a dog/cat/snake/mouse etc to be on the same level as a parent/spouse/child (human being) And I would assume you feel the same way unless you are a vegan and even then their are points to disagree on, but thats a another conversation.
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10-03-2007, 05:37 PM
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#57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmith_1187
When you're responsible for the care of another living creature (parent, spouse, child, dog, cat, snake, mouse, etc.)...that's about as serious as it gets.
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So are you saying that you're as serious in taking care of your snakes as you are in taking care of your child? Does the fact that I'm two days late in feeding my yearling corns imply that I'm more serious in taking care of my Lab than my snakes?
Just curious.
regards,
jazz
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10-03-2007, 05:39 PM
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#58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzgeek
I've seen similar arguments in "hunting v. non-hunting" threads. I encourage anyone who believes that hunting is cruel to tour the Tyson chicken or Oscar Mayer slaughterhouses.....if you'd be allowed in.
That said, the "degrees of cruelty" you claim - "unnecessarily cruel" (as opposed to "necessarily cruel", I would presume) - are subjective to the individual.
I'm always curious as to what governing body proclaims such methods - ANY methods, even - as "approved". Approved by whom? The Council on Cornsnake Relations? The American Veterinary Association?
To go off on a tangent, why are the "approved" methods given such innocuous terms? Would stunning be more acceptable if it were coined "thumping" or "neurological interruption"?
After all, "cervical dislocation" is just a pretty way to say "I broke its neck".
Cervical dislocation is usually performed with a hemostat or some such device to secure the rodent.
<Ahem> "Neurological interruption" is usually performed with the flick of the forefinger or middle finger.
I'll leave the question of which method is more "humane" open to debate.
regards,
jazz
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I have no problem with responsible hunters either. Nor really with calling a spade a spade: breaking a mouse's neck causes almost instant death, which is why it is deemed "humane". I suppose if you can guarantee that your stunned mouse is unconscious and isn't going to regain consciousness before it's dead, I'd consider stunning humane, too, but you can't.
The people I know who break feeder's necks, do it by hand, and don't use hemostats.
As for who determines the humaneness of killing methods: vets, anti-cruelty laws, and government and laboratory guides to the humane keeping and killing of lab and food animals.
Possibly "cruel" has such negative connotations that "necessary cruelty" comes across as an oxymoron, but yes, I believe that sometimes causing pain is necessary or at least unavoidable.
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10-03-2007, 05:43 PM
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#59
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Quote:
And I would assume you feel the same way
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Indeed I do...would I put my snake before my children, no. However, the care and well being of my snake is something I do take very seriously, unlike others.
Quote:
Does the fact that I'm two days late in feeding my yearling corns imply that I'm more serious in taking care of my Lab than my snakes?
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Apparently so...geeze Dale
Regards,
Steve
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10-03-2007, 05:43 PM
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#60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batwrangler
I have no problem with responsible hunters either. Nor really with calling a spade a spade: breaking a mouse's neck causes almost instant death, which is why it is deemed "humane". I suppose if you can guarantee that your stunned mouse is unconscious and isn't going to regain consciousness before it's dead, I'd consider stunning humane, too, but you can't.
The people I know who break feeder's necks, do it by hand, and don't use hemostats.
As for who determines the humaneness of killing methods: vets, anti-cruelty laws, and government and laboratory guides to the humane keeping and killing of lab and food animals.
Possibly "cruel" has such negative connotations that "necessary cruelty" comes across as an oxymoron, but yes, I believe that sometimes causing pain is necessary or at least unavoidable.
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Can you guarantee that when you try to break its' neck, it do it on the first try? and ALMOST instant death still means the animal feels some type of pain
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