Live or F/T?

Originally Posted by snakewispera snr

I do it as I hope that other newbs will see that more people are against it than for and they are the ones with lucid arguments not just an opinion and five minutes experience...

That's as good a reason as any. I've recently posted in a slitting eggs thread hoping to discourage new breeders from getting impatient with their clutch and cutting into them.
I think a lot of people will already have their minds made up and nothing you say can dissuade them, it's the same with cohab and feeding live. Until they have a bad experience themselves, they will unfortunately find enough people who say it's OK to convince themselves.
Feeding live - I've done it but only with snakes that won't take F/T and I do my best to convert them because sooner or later most will eat F/T if you keep trying.
It could be true constricting them is good exercise for a gravid female, to me it just seems there's less dangerous ways to condition a gravid girl - a proven female producer is probably the snake in my collection I'd be least likely to want to risk feeding live to.

Originally Posted by FunkyRes

I also bet that a lot of very experienced "big name" herpers make use of live who just don't speak up about it because they've rather not be told that they are bad people for doing so.

If you mean, by "big name," breeders who are feeding a thousand or more snakes, yes, many do feed live. What is economical in terms of time and often cost to them doesn't mean it's the safest way to handle feedings for the majority of us, pet owners, with a mere 20 or so snakes. If you have that few, it's more important to avoid preventable accidents rather than feed as fast as possible with as little waste as possible.

Originally Posted by Nanci

If you mean, by "big name," breeders who are feeding a thousand or more snakes, yes, many do feed live. What is economical in terms of time and often cost to them doesn't mean it's the safest way to handle feedings for the majority of us, pet owners, with a mere 20 or so snakes. If you have that few, it's more important to avoid preventable accidents rather than feed as fast as possible with as little waste as possible.

Plus I dare say 'big name breeders' have a bit of experience......
This is a cornsnake site, and I don't mean this condescendingly, but cornsnakes are generally considered to be a first time snake. So there are a lot of new to snakes people on here....Info,IMO is given out with them in mind.....Even so cohab and live feeding, no matter how long you have had snakes is not without risk...

Originally Posted by snakewispera snr

Plus I dare say 'big name breeders' have a bit of experience......
This is a cornsnake site, and I don't mean this condescendingly, but cornsnakes are generally considered to be a first time snake. So there are a lot of new to snakes people on here....Info,IMO is given out with them in mind.....Even so cohab and live feeding, no matter how long you have had snakes is not without risk...

From my point of view, even new keepers should be presented with the facts and reasons, rather than just being told "do this and don't do this".

I'm also not fond of the trend of labeling corns as "the newbie snake".
Yes, they are excellent for new keepers to the hobby, but so are many species. There are some species like ATB's and GTP's that a newbie should stay away from, but there are many many many species that are extremely easy to care for with little or no previous experience.

I've never met anyone on here that I constantly disagree with, but you seem to be the exception...I'm sure you post and don't think,first..... I don't like labelling corns as a 'starter' snake either...But they are seen that way.. And so many people post saying 'I'm getting my first snake, it's a corn' Why...ITS A CORNSNAKE SITE....
If I went to any number of sites...kings, milks, etc. I bet I would find the same....except they would have a king or a milk etc. as their first snake. But that is besides the point... I would still say that IMO this is what I would do......After all I have given reasons for my statements not just my opinion.....Who are you do you even own a snake...I don't know. So your opinion is worthless to me...Facts are what I am looking for, or evidence.....I was going to pull you up on freezing to death being painful but I decided not to. But as we're at it..... Being cold is uncomfortable not painful... Your core temperature goes down and hypothermia sets in..... Anyone who has had hypothermia will tell you they started to feel warm and comfortable and thought it would be a good idea to snuggle down where they were.....People who freeze to death generally have smiles on their faces when they are found.... And like I asked you earlier...... Plaese don't spout BS and gloss it up like fact...It might influence a new comer to endanger their snakes.....

The freezing hurts at first, before the numbness is all. I have stuck my hands bare into snow many times, and stuck myself to a freezer once as a child, and it *burns* until the cold really kicks in. Then it's all fine and dandy.

That said, I just tried live out of desperation (next is finding that lizard scent...) for a snake that hasn't eaten in I think 6 weeks now. She lay next to it for about 20 minutes, while it crawled against her. Completely uninterested. ... So I gave the pink to another snake.

I wish now I'd stuck it in the freezer as my bloodred literally ate the pink live and I could hear it squeaking in him for a bit. >_< I am completely traumatised and refuse to feed live to any snake again.

I only feed f/t because I had only owned my first corn (actually my daughter owned it) less than a month before we took it to a vet because of non-feeding issues. She spends a good 15 minutes lecturing me on why I should never feed live and boy, did that lecture do wonders for me. Let me tell you that woman was passionate about her position

Originally Posted by Shiari

The freezing hurts at first, before the numbness is all. I have stuck my hands bare into snow many times, and stuck myself to a freezer once as a child, and it *burns* until the cold really kicks in. Then it's all fine and dandy.

Please, tell us more about your experience with freezing yourself to DEATH.

Originally Posted by Nanci

Please, tell us more about your experience with freezing yourself to DEATH.

I will quote myself too.

"The freezing hurts AT FIRST"

At first means "in the beginning". I seem to have then said that numbness kicks in, intimating that it no longer hurts.

If the pinkies are in a thick plastic container, something that won't get terribly cold before they die, then it won't hurt. But if they are in something that goes cold quick, or are just in a bag per say, the *contact* will hurt. Go sit on a frozen lake bare bottomed and them tell me it didn't hurt for a little bit.