Transparent Hypo? Blue Ice?

I dunno... the ultra hypo I have certainly doesn't look frosted. In fact, his colors are quite bold and bright... You sure that's right. cka?

-Kat

Other than the fact that the last thing we need is another form or combination of forms of hypomelanism, I have no problem with this being a new "thing." I just have a problem with animals being sold as new "things" when the evidence for their newness has not been clearly established. And to sell the hets, well that just irks me.

I mean you have an animal that is obviously hypo and looks different than your other hypos. Just how many different types of hypo would you have to breed your animal to in order for you to conclusively know that it is indeed different from the other strains of hypo? Can you even breed to all of the different strains conclusively in the first place? I mean, we don't even know for certain how many strains there are. Hypo is so confused that Rich Z. is actually considering removing the name from all of his animal, for crying out loud!

Also, how could you know for certain what you were proving in the f2 generation? I breed my hypo A to my new hypo X. If hypo X truly is distinct from the A form, all of my babies should be normals. In the f2, though, I should get some hypo As, some hypo Xs, a bunch of normals hets, and a few hypo AXs. Now, how do I tell them apart??? If we say that I can tell them apart because the original hypo X parent has a different "look" to it, I have to ask if that "look" is because of the "X" factor, or is it because of the specific linebreeding behind that parent? If it is the "X" factor, then all of the hypo babies that have that "look" are all hypo X babies. But if it is due to the linebreeding of the original parent, then any number of hypo babies could have that "look" and be hypo A, hypo X, or hypo AX ... there's just no way to tell for certain.

That degree of necessary uncertainty being clouded over with definitive terms like "het" is my sole problem with this project or any other along the same line. I just think it is either irresponsible or dishonest (depending upon the seller's intent) to be selling "hets" for a trait you cannot fully understand, let alone prove.

http://jyreptiles.com/more%20corns/ultra-hypo-f.jpg

link to an "ultra hypo"...Jeff Yohe could give ya some more info on this snake.

Kat....here's my disclaimer hehe...used to email JY quite a bit...He was real helpful when I was startin out...it was something he mentioned, (unless i am remembering it wrong, it happens) when showing me the linked above pic...peace

I've gotten answers via email, and I'm convinced he has done all the tests I would want to do before I could say with reasonable certainty that:

A- it's incompatible with the current two "known" strains.

B- it is heritable and appears to be a simple-recessive trait.

I've asked him if he'd like to post here about it, or if he'd mind me relaying the information here for him. Until then, I'll just leave it at that.

I still have questions, but I guess they'll all be answered soon . . .

Another hypo??? Just what we all needed!

In reference to the Ultra Hypos, I believe Jeff Yohe got them from me, and I seriously doubt I would have told him they were some sort of hybrid.

I got them from Mike Falcon and grilled him unmercifully about their ancestry. He said they came from a wild caught animal that he at first thought might be some sort of integrade with the yellow rat (I don't remember the locality he said the wild caught came from, but I am under the impression that Mike lives in mid latitude Florida, and gray rat snakes are just not found that far south. But he later concluded that it was an just an odd looking
corn snake. Even to this day, I have no idea how anyone can make a determination like that, other than a best guess based on reasonable assumptions.

As for the frosted look, no one needs to hybridize to get that look. My original Miami Phase corn I got back in 1978 had that look and it is not at all uncommon in many of my lines of corns.

Finally, I have been breeding the Ultra Hypos for years now and have not seen any evidence that would lead me to believe they are any sort of hybrid or integrade. Otherwise they would not be in my collection right now. I have had animals in the past that I felt very strongly were not pure corns, and once making that judgement, got rid of them as soon as possible.

So I just have to ask this: How can someone jump to the conclusion that an animal is a hybrid based on the scanty evidence they have at hand? By appearances? I have had animals for years, studying their actions and mannerisms before coming to a conclusion that may or may not be right. But I decided to err on the side of caution. Appearance alone is just not enough.

As such, I want someone to look at the below photo and in one breath tell me that the photo that Jeff Yohe took of an Ultra Hypo "looks" like a hybrid yet the photo shown here of a Sunkissed corn does NOT "look" like a hybrid:



And tell me with a straight face what criteria you are using for that sort of judgement.

Either you (1) can or you (2) cannot tell from appearances. Pick one (1/2): ___

1 - look at the snout, shortened considerably

what a nice snake though, hey you don't like hybrids? I'd be happy to take that one off your hands for you, just send him to...

Hehe... I think the closest hybrid that okeetee reminds me of would be a jungle corn. The headpattern and snout length atleast look somewhat similar. That having been said, I've yet to see a sunkissed okeetee with a /normal/ headpattern. Of course, that's only a hatchling... the adult sunkisseds I've seen look like typical corns in terms of headshape.

-KAt

I've hunted the "Hunt Club" for years and I can tell you that if a scientist spent only 1 month road cruising in front of the place he'd be lucky to get 2 animals.
So how's he get all this "1 of of 20 look like this or that" data? The whole thing sounds flaky. And those animals don't look much differnet than what others already have for sale anyway.