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Miscellaneous Corn Snake Discussions This is a "none of the above" forum. All posts should still be related to cornsnakes in one form or another, but some slight off topic posting is fine.

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Old 01-10-2013, 12:09 AM   #171
dave partington
1. I do not have a dog in this race.

2. I have done some homework to put this post together. I am not linking to every source of information in the hopes you will do your own homework too.

3. I have tried to look at the situation dispassionately. Without emotion, as I have nothing to gain from replying. (See #1).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsnakeforsale_com View Post
If you paid with paypal or a credit card you should be able to get your funds returned. That's completely unacceptable behavior from a seller, but things do happen so hopefully you'll be lucky and it will arrive tomorrow. If not, get your money and add an entry to the BOI to help others avoid them in the future.
If you paid with a credit card through paypal.
WITH a credit card.
Paypal's purpose is to make money for paypal.
If you pay using a (real, not pre-paid) credit card through paypal, and paypal decides in favor of the seller, then the buyer can call their credit card company to resolve the issue. Be familiar with your credit card company policies regarding chargebacks. Credit card companies almost always provide refunds to their card holders in instances that PayPal fails to.
Checking the BOI will not tell you whether to pay cash or not. Using a credit card is always better when doing business with a seller.
When paying with paypal, there is a space to make a note to the seller what the money is for, in a limited space. Be to the point. State specifically what you are purchasing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
12-13-2012: These are not hypo plasmas? (sorry I was too upset over how they were shipped that I wasn't paying attention). Bird's Reptiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsevol View Post
This is what I think you should do....
start a BOI thread.
Post EVERYTHING you have said here.
Post the video.
Link to this thread if you want to.

The people there will advise you, and no one wants these snakes dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
I will do that right now, I was going to to do it tonight, but I best do it now. I don't want them to die...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
This is absolutely APPALLING. You NEED TO post a BOI thread. They shouldn't have been sent two days. They are packed completely inadequately. Is Birds Reptiles a complete moron, or does he just not care?

I wouldn't even WANT replacement snakes from such a crappy seller. I'd post the videos, let them speak for themselves, ask for a refund, because you have basically been sent dead snakes (and have you notified the seller- he probably has a time limit, if there even is a live delivery guarantee) and then pray the poor little babies make it. You can always rehome them if they don't fit into your plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
Agreed I don't want replacements at all, I do not trust the seller. He is going to call me tomorrow, if he doesn't I will call him. I am thinking of him refunding partial money, off of the shipping and the fact that I got charged for hypo plasmas (and anything else I can get). I don't think he would give me a full refund with out getting the snakes back. Here is a link to the BOI I left http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...36#post1551336
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
I have all the emails saved and read to copy-paste if necessary (I can even screen shot them),
RR, You did the right thing.
Do not have phone conversations at this point.
Paypal will accept emails with full complete headers as evidence.
Paypal does not consider photos to be evidence, because photos can be edited to make them say whatever anyone wants them to say.
Response to everything else further down this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
12-18-12 Update on the situation: I have not received a refund yet (it has been 4 days and he promised for it to be done in a couple), I attempted yesterday to contact the seller about the refund but he did not respond. Therefore, I informed him that I have opened a case between him and me on PayPal requesting the full refund, and if he has not refunded me by Friday, I will escalate the case to a PayPal claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
12-21-12 Yep these two are fighters ^^

I have escalated this case to a Paypal claim, they best rule in my favor. I provided screen shots (him agreeing they were Hypo Bloodred Lavenders, which they were not, and a screen shot on my phone of the text where he agreed to give me a full refund {unlucky for him I have the Galaxy Note which can take screen shots}), and a url to this forum as testimony that I got the wrong snakes. It was difficult to both describe the situation and teach them "snake" talk in 2000 characters or less (I used 1998 characters and that was not enough).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
Update: PayPal did not rule in my favor, at least the little ones are doing good.

You cannot keep the item and get a refund for it.

When an item arrives and turns out to be "other than described",
like for instance you bought a cornsnake and received a corn cob-
the buyer should contact the seller via email (never phone) and
ask the seller how to they would like to resolve this problem.

After exchanging a few emails, and keeping all emails the buyer receives from the seller, assuming the seller is a good honest person or company, the two should come to an amicable arrangement. Perhaps the seller gives the buyer a full refund including shipping and says to keep the item. (I have made mistakes as a seller and done this, and I suspect others have, too). For the seller it's a tax deductible educational experience.

The buyer should offer/ask if they can return the item. If the seller replies "No RETURNS NO REFUNDS", then you have this in an email from them. It is against FCC regulation to not accept returns or offer refunds in any online transaction. A domestic (in USA) sellers terms to not override federal regulation, when selling to a customer within the USA. It is FCC regulated because the transaction happened across wires. http://www.fcc.gov/

However, due to cultural differences or other reasoning, sometimes a seller may think differently. At this time, file a dispute with paypal. In essence, try to get as much information from the seller via email, in advance of opening the paypal dispute. It will show paypal the buyer is familiar with paypal rules and regulations for buyers, and indicate to paypal that the seller is not familiar with paypal rules for sellers

It may be quite persuasive to the seller to provide you with an expedient refund if, in emails, you simply suggest that you would prefer not to feel the need to start public online threads on the BOI, etc, should both parties fail to reach an acceptable fix for the incident. However, starting BOI threads prior to the settlement (regardless which way it turns out) may alienate the seller or emotional compromise or ill-will towards the buyer (though it is misplaced ill will and later they will likely have a mental meltdown and lose some self respect, Especially when they later realize it is their fault. Good decisions are seldom made by anyone suffering from emotional distress. Try to keep the emails flying back and forth as much as possible. Keep all copies of sent emails, in case the seller is in the habit of replying withOUT the original email sent.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
This is the message I wrote,

"The shipment John Richardson sent contained two live snakes. The packaging he provided and the method of shipping he chose nearly killed the snakes. in all honesty, I am shocked they survived. I do not know if he is certified with FedEx or not, but if he is, he needs his certification revoked.

(Keep in mind that the snakes were shipped in December to Illinois) The box had no insolation or Styrofoam to protect the snakes. And he put 10 hour hand warmers for heat (which are not sufficient even for overnight). Furthermore, live reptiles need to be shipped overnight, but the labeling clearly states that the package was shipped 2-day shipping.

Here is a url to my unboxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl_8rhl3Q9U

Here is a url to me examining the box
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raUfDtCVuQI

This is a case of animal cruelty, and I hope as a company, you will prevent this man from shipping live animals through FedEx again."
Perhaps in the future, taking a video camera to the FedEx Hub where one picks up and signs for the snakes would be better, (not shipped to a home or some other place, because the driver is on a tight schedule) so there will be real (credible) witnesses (FedEx Employees) present. Be sure to have the employees state their names on the video, their location, etc, to make it as easy as possible for the fine folks at FedEx Corporate to verify if the video is honest, accurate. Even then, FE may not do anything and treat it as an isolated incident. Because after all, FedEx makes thousands of dollars from the seller doing the shipping.


RR, I feel your pain. I have been on both sides of similar situations. Personally, I believe in doing the right things in order usually yields a most favorable response. When all else fails, the BOI is still there. Thanks for sharing.
dp
 
Old 01-10-2013, 03:10 AM   #172
RoseRed
Thanks dave partington for the advice (and the time it took to write that all down) I am still new and am still learning as I go. After this incident, home deliveries don't sound so good anyway.

On a side note, I have a little video on an update on the two snakes, in case anyone is interested in actually seeing them rather than read my written updates. I usually put paper towels in the deli cups, so I never noticed L1 trying to get through them, I shall have to get new deli cups. Oh, and I meant to say L1 is the one that tries the most to escape, haven't had an escape yet, cross my fingers I won't.

 
Old 01-10-2013, 04:56 AM   #173
diamondlil
They are doing so well in your care! Thanks for the update
 
Old 01-10-2013, 08:11 AM   #174
MegF.
Dave, as I recall though, the seller agreed to refund the money without getting the animals back and if in fact that's the e-mail then paypal should still refund the money. The seller AGREED that a full refund was in order, just hasn't done so.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 12:49 PM   #175
dave partington
Meg, re: seller agreed to refund the money without getting the animals back

I have seen no emails with complete headers from either party on the BOI thread.
Which is why it is important to use a computer, not another device, when negotiating a settlement with the other party.
So I do not know the order in which things occurred.
From what I have seen on this thread and BOI,
it looks to me like

Buyer receives incorrect item
1. Buyer is encouraged to start a BOI thread
2. Buyer is encouraged to keep the item
3. Buyer is encouraged to open a paypal dispute

I do not know if RR suggested to seller that she was going to keep the snakes
or if the seller told RR to keep them without being encouraged to tell her to keep them.

There is much good advice on this thread, and it has all been followed.
Perhaps in another lifetime, if events had happened in a different order, the outcome may have been different.

The buyer has 45 days to open a paypal dispute from the date the payment is made.
Much emotionally charged advice was given encouraging hasty action.

The order in which I would have used, because I have 45 days to gather intel, would be:
1. Contact the seller via email only, to try to come to a mutually acceptable settlement, without encouraging the seller to let me keep the item. If that failed, then I would perhaps use the tactic of suggesting I would tell my friends what happened. That vaguely, in a non-threatening way. No mention of the BOI. I would not want for Paypal to see in an email that I was threatening retaliation in an email. NO phone communication.

2. Open paypal dispute. Do not escalate it, as this encourages paypal to make fast hasty decisions. Keeping in mind paypal generates income for paypal, off the seller from the 2-3% paypal skims off the top, paypal may likely side with what is best for paypal.

3. If I do not receive a refund, then I might choose to create a BOI thread.
-------------------------------------------------
I keep learning as I go.
--------------------------------------------
Much excellent good advice is in the "Sticky" threads at the top of the BOI.
-------------------------
I do not have a dog in this race.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 04:06 PM   #176
dave partington
Two additional notes:
Once the dispute with paypal has been initiated, it is best to stop all further communication with the other party.

There is a lot of info which I have been careful to avoid, such as mentioning tactics which disreputable sellers (of anything) might use to encourage the buyer to make poor decisions such as dropping the dispute before paypal has made a judgement call. I am not saying what or how because I have no control over who reads these posts.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 08:02 PM   #177
Tom Tuttle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanci View Post
Is it anyone from here?
Yes he is a newer member here.
 
Old 01-10-2013, 09:04 PM   #178
dave partington
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseRed View Post
On a side note, I have a little video on an update on the two snakes, in case anyone is interested in actually seeing them rather than read my written updates. I usually put paper towels in the deli cups, so I never noticed L1 trying to get through them, I shall have to get new deli cups. Oh, and I meant to say L1 is the one that tries the most to escape, haven't had an escape yet, cross my fingers I won't.

This was a fun video, thanks for sharing. I shot you a PM earlier today about deli cup sourcing, but later thought about this kewl idea I first heard of from Nanci.
Sandwich containers from the Wallymarket.
The cheap ones, in the picnic paper plate area. The cheap ones stack up the best without toppling over.
They run under 2.50 for 5,
and a conventional paper napkin fits inside perfectly. (which some may learn to hide under)
Use a soldering iron (I get mine at a Harbor Freight store for $3.00)
to poke some holes in them, doing so in an outdoor or well ventilated place. Just an idea. HTH.
dp
 
Old 01-10-2013, 09:14 PM   #179
MegF.
You can get those from the dollar store. I got 3 or 4 pks depending upon the size and shape for a dollar. I now house in shoebox containers because they came with the rack I bought but that was what I used for years.
 

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