Is the such a thing as "Dwarf" ASFs?

Hi All,

A couple of weeks ago I was pulling pinks and fuzzies to euthanize, and I noticed that one was super tiny and looked nearly hairless at 4 weeks. I decided that the breeder must not have been producing quality offspring and I went ahead and euthanized her, her sisters, the male (just to be safe) and all the offspring except a group of 2.2 (just to see how they developed.

Now I am kinda regretting euthanize get them, because now that the remaining 2.2 have had a couple of weeks to develope more, their hair has filled in and males have dropped and darkened their testicals, but they are SO TINY! I will try to post comparison pics when I get back home, but compared to other litters born at the same time, they are 1/4 the size.

Has anyone ever heard of Dwarf ASFs?

~Beau

Hey, how ya been?

Great question about whether there are any such thing as a dwarf ASF!

But I also have a question: What's an ASF? And why on earth are you euthanizing them? They sick or injured or something?

Tried to figure it out but after a busy day, my brain is kinda stuck in stupid!

Thanx!!!!

ASF = African Soft Fur. They're rats, smaller than normal rats.

I'm not sure if there are dwarf ASF's, I haven't seen any.

African Soft Fur Rats, also know as Natal Mice. The aren't really rats, but they aren't mice either, and many zoologists believe they are the inbetween-stage evolutionarily Beau ween rice and rats.

They are a excellent feeder animal for colubrid snakes (like corn snakes) because they reproduce very very quickly (mine have litters of 14-22 at a time), and while their pinks are only a little bigger then a mouse pink, they grow to 3Xs the size of a n adult mouse.

I am euthanizing them because I don't feed live prey. I use a CO2 chamber to peacefully put them to sleep and freeze them. I euthanized 64 yesterday.

~Beau

Is got home late tonight, but I will take pictures when I clean cages tomorrow.
~Beau

They're perfect size for the smaller carpet pythons as well.
I just wish they were more prevalent.
They're super easy to produce a lot for food, but it isn't as easy to sell snakes that are eating them.

Originally Posted by MysticExotics

They're perfect size for the smaller carpet pythons as well.
I just wish they were more prevalent.
They're super easy to produce a lot for food, but it isn't as easy to sell snakes that are eating them.

Is that because it's difficult switching snakes back to regular mice?

I've heard similar stories about rats and prefer to feed my adult corns rats vs mice due to the sheer weight of a small rat (60-75 grams) and also because the protein ratio is higher in a rat. But even when I run out, my snakes will readily take mice again. Never have problems except for mating season (last two years my female has been gravid during the Spring and my males have been too horny for food)!

But anyway, thanx for the responses!

I am have no trouble sleeping tonight, so I'm kinda sketchy (still can't believe I'm still up), but I thought I would mention one more reason to breed ASFs vs mice or rats: NO SMELL. Seriously, I have them in the walk-in closet of our spare bedroom and I have had guests stay who he ever knew ey were in the closet.

More importantly, for colubrids, there isn't any danger of a snake becoming fixated on ASFs as feeders any more than one becoming fixated on mice. It is pythons that they say become fixated on ASFs because they are their food source in the wild. I don't keep pythons, so I can't say one way or another, but I have been told by a python keeper that her snakes switch back and forth from ASFs to rats with out a problem.

There is a bit of a stigma though, so any hatchlings I plan to sell get mice, just to avoid the worry. My snakes, though, get a pretty varied diet. I alternate between the ASFs, day old chicks, and the occasional rat or mouse. Occasionally, I feed baby quail (but not often, because of the expense.

Raising ASFs has really been a God-send. I started raising mice, but the smell was AWFUL. It was about to cause a divorce! I tried ordering from Rodent Pro, but had a bad experience (among other problems, some of the rats were fighting when the died and were frozen that way). It left me questioning how the feeders were raised and treated, and it also got me thinking about what the feeders were fed too. Most importantly, it makes it SO much more affordable to keep a large collection.

I spend more on feed than most breeders. I feed my ASFs fresh vegetables, a 13 grain mix, alfalfa pellets, and lab block. I spend right at $30 a month to feed 6 groups of 1.4 and have around 360 babies a month.

Yes, let me say that again -- $30 for 360 ASFs & NO SMELL.

The only thing, is I HATE having to euthanize them. I doubt I will ever not hate having to do it, but that's just one of the commitments you make when you keep snakes. I use a CO2 gas canister that I got from a soda fountain machine, and they pass away very peacefully. They aren't scared, they don't run around upset. They just get sleepy and once they are asleep, I turn the gas up to full blast and they die....but I had to kill almost 400 of them yesterday, and it just wears on my soul

~Beau

OH, and I don't plan to breed 300+ ASFs a month all the time. They have a life span of 2-3 years, so I am just breeding them for a couple of months and then I will pull the males and stop breeding until I start running out of rats again.

Also, that $30 is also feeding the weanlings, so when I take a "breeding-break" the cost to feed them is only about $10 a month.

My husband figured out the whole "cost to breed" vs "cost to buy" thing, and he says I am paying ~7 cents/rat across the board (it costs lots more to raise an adult than a pinkie, so that's an average between all of them).

~Beau

Originally Posted by BeauBoi

. . . Yes, let me say that again -- $30 for 360 ASFs & NO SMELL. . . ~Beau

Seems like that's worth the small price right there!! (I would actually SPEND twice that amount if I were raising the little critters but the euthanizing piece would also wear me down too!).

Thanx again for making me a little bit more informed than I was yesterday!!