Opinions on WC

And........ You think they're fine with this?

wouldnt it stand to reason that if they were not fine with it, or if it was causing a lot of stress that they would go off feed, not to mention bite quite often?



I think you're applying human traits to a reptile. they advancements b/t the 2 are vast, especially when the brain comes into play. To you, it seems that they are "cooped up", when in reality they are prospering just fine.


Side question: Why would you own something, when you oppose catching them in the wild? That snake was born with the same instincts that the W/C are. It's just that you bring him a meal every week, instead of having to search for one.

*sigh* looks like I have to go through this whole song and dance again. The CB ones were BORN to it, there's no way it would ever go into the wild. WC ones were born to a life of doing whatever they want, are you telling me that the snake feels no stress whatsoever when being handled for perhaps the first time ever, and having to get used to it? Yes that's what CB ones go through too, but again, they were born to it, it would happen to them no matter who purchased them. I love animals, and I don't feel alot of guilt owning them because they have never experienced the wild, but I'd never keep one that had. Maybe I'm applying human traits too much to humans yes, and I do know how their brains work (well, what is generally believed) and I apoligise for that.

Elaphe gutatta: we are talking about an ambush feeder. Corns don't chase down food. They will forage when very hungry, and males certainly do some traveling to breed. They risk their lives every time they move. Typically, they lie in wait for a mouse or lizard to wander by. I've caught Elaphe my whole life and only very few were crossing the road or out in the open. Almost every one was found turning things over. An exposed snake is usually a dead snake.

Oh, and all the snakes I've released into the wild were captive-bred.


I believe snakes have NO ability to "miss" being in the wild. Just like I believe that being in the wild is ultimately where they "belong". Snakes will never become a domesticated animal. Even dogs, cats, and cattle were once wild species. Is it right for people to "own" them? I don't struggle with this moral question, personally. I respect that others do, but find it odd that one would be a snake owner. Just out of curiosity, do you have issues with feeding snakes mice?

No, I don't, but if they refuse to eat, (usually before a shed) and I have to throw the mouse away, then I feel very guilty.

The CB ones were BORN to it, there's no way it would ever go into the wild.

this is where your thoughts and mine tend to differ. I personally believe that there is no way to "tame" the traits out of a wild animal through breeding over a period of 50 years or so. Sure, you can breed for traits that are more suited to captivity (such as what we perceive as "tame"). However, if you were to release a group of hatchlings back into the wild, then i think they would have the same chance any snake born in the wild would have. In fact, i think they'd have a better chance, b/c hatching conditions would be prime and they'd be born healthy.* They're actions are based off instinct more so than learned ability. That's why the little ones are usually much more nippy than the adults. We're a perceived threat.

We hear stories of snakes escaping and people finding them 4..5 months sometimes a year later. These snakes didnt live b/c a human was feeding them. They're still wild animals. I think we're confusing some for being domesticated. They're not like dogs or cats. Reptiles work on a completely different level.

As for stress, sure they feel a certain amount of stress, but it's no where near the amount that you are describing. As chip said earlier, reptiles usually dont eat and darn sure they dont breed under conditions that are too stressful.







*Condition: all hatchlings would have to be of wildtype phenotype. of course you could not throw a hypo lav or snow into the wild and expect it to make it to adulthood.

Sidenote: I'm not trying to insult you in any way. I just have a different opinion of what's going on. I have to give you props though, to be 14, you certainly are sticking to ur guns rather well.

this is where your thoughts and mine tend to differ. I personally believe that there is no way to "tame" the traits out of a wild animal through breeding over a period of 50 years or so. Sure, you can breed for traits that are more suited to captivity (such as what we perceive as "tame"). However, if you were to release a group of hatchlings back into the wild, then i think they would have the same chance any snake born in the wild would have. In fact, i think they'd have a better chance, b/c hatching conditions would be prime and they'd be born healthy.*

This isn't what I'm saying, I know that they are never going to be tame that way.

The CB ones were BORN to it, there's no way it would ever go into the wild.

that was the point i was arguing. I honestly think this debate will prolly have to end on a stalemate. It really doesnt look like we're gettin anywhere with it. i know there's no convincing me otherwise, and looks that goes for the majority here, no matter what side they are on.

Yes, sorry I had to leave for a little while so couldn't explain why that wasn't what I meant. By "The CB ones were BORN to it, there's no way it would ever go into the wild." I meant that there's no chance that they'll ever experience the wild, because they are sold as a pet, I'm not saying that they *wouldn't* be able to ajust to the wild.
And I agree, nobody here is changing their minds, I've already debated through all of this earlier on in the thread, let others get a word in, I don't like having to explain over and over.

i suppose you have to start somewhere. However, now-a-days, one could just start with a couple CB's. Guess i dont see the need to catch WC's anymore.