HUGE finds...

Originally Posted by tricksterpup

I hate your state!! lol

I still would love a pair of those. A friend of mine has some that he brumates in his fridge in the winter. He says they still cruise around the container while in the fridge. They are very cool.

Yea...they are active with surface temps in the low 50s. I have found them while cruising wearing a sweatshirt with the heater on...outside surface temps around 49-52*F...they are still out there. I don't put any external heat sources on them at all. They are also proliferate at elevations ranging from around 6500' all the way to 10,000 and change. VERY proliferate and hardy little snakes.

As well...they have been recorded in the wild with a 40-50 year lifespan...

Originally Posted by tyflier

All of my collections are perfectly legal. I am allowed to catch and keep, with a valid fishing license, 2 of each of the species that I plan on keeping...and I only plan on keeping one of each for my own collection. Kaylee also has a valid fishing license. Zayne doesn't need one.

Actually Chris, you can even keep more than 2, though I don't remember the exact number. The 'bag limit' is two though, so you can only pick up two per trip. I want to see the limit was 5 (?) though don't quote me on that as I'm not sure.. I had a long email conversation with my local Fish and Game guy about it.. He actually went so far as to let me know I wouldn't ever get the propogation 'rights' (whatever it's called) unless I'm a university or other 'bonafied organization', lol. Whatever that means..

Well done though as far as finding those guys! I'm so jealous!

Did you read that online story about the guy who kept catching the snake one over and over for like 40 years? Incredible!

There are some brilliant studies just from googling 'rubber boa studies'. Fascinating critters!

Originally Posted by tom e

Actually Chris, you can even keep more than 2, though I don't remember the exact number. The 'bag limit' is two though, so you can only pick up two per trip. I want to see the limit was 5 (?) though don't quote me on that as I'm not sure.. I had a long email conversation with my local Fish and Game guy about it.. He actually went so far as to let me know I wouldn't ever get the propogation 'rights' (whatever it's called) unless I'm a university or other 'bonafied organization', lol. Whatever that means..

Well done though as far as finding those guys! I'm so jealous!

Did you read that online story about the guy who kept catching the snake one over and over for like 40 years? Incredible!

For some species, the limit is 5. For others, the limit is 2. For still others there is NO collection, whatsoever, and it is illegal to even HAVE them in captivity. I believe Lampropeltis zonata pulchra is one ssp. that cannot be in your possession at any time for any reason.

And than there are others that are entirely unregulated...such as rattlesnakes. I can catch and keep as many as I want without even owning a fishing license...

...He actually went so far as to let me know I wouldn't ever get the propogation 'rights' (whatever it's called) unless I'm a university or other 'bonafied organization', lol...

It's not actually that difficult. You have to be a business with a valid business license. You also have to take a written examination, and pass an annual site inspection and renewal process. And of course...pay the fees. I know of several individuals with the permit, as well as wholesale distributors...

And also remember that all albino mutations are exempt from any regulations. Albino animals of any species may be caught and kept in any number, bred and sold, and even imported or exported without a fishing license or propogation permit...

And just for the record...anyone planning on coming to California for some field collecting needs to be aware that the state DFG baits people, and gives out hefty fines for collecting without a fishing license. A friend of mine was fined for pulling over to get a Cal king...it was actually a black and white banded rope and a DFG warden was parked out of site. As soon as they bent over to pick it up, he came out and asked them to produce their fishing licenses. When they couldn't...they were fined. My local DFG office is merely blocks from my house, and I regularly have discussions with the local Lieutenant. He has warned me that the wardens will bait, and that I should ALWAYS have my fishing license in the car...even if I'm just taking pictures and moving animals off the road, or I risk a fine...

Originally Posted by tyflier

A friend of mine was fined for pulling over to get a Cal king...it was actually a black and white banded rope and a DFG warden was parked out of site. As soon as they bent over to pick it up, he came out and asked them to produce their fishing licenses. When they couldn't...they were fined.

The thing is, How hard would this be to fight in court? I mean literally you are being fined for picking up a rope in the middle of the road. To my knowledge this is not a crime in any state. I am sure you could fight that in court. Now if it was an actual snake well thats a different story.

Originally Posted by tricksterpup

The thing is, How hard would this be to fight in court? I mean literally you are being fined for picking up a rope in the middle of the road. To my knowledge this is not a crime in any state. I am sure you could fight that in court. Now if it was an actual snake well thats a different story.

The problem is with "intent", and as we all know...people are arrested and/or fined based on percieved intent all the time, and there isn't anything that can be done about it.

You're right in that technically, you are being fined for picking up a rope. But the percieved intent is collecting without a license, and it is this that you are being ticketed for. You'd have to have a mighty talented lawyer to convince a judge that your intentions were to pick up a black and white banded rope rather than a kingsnake.

It's akin to an individual purchasing fake heroin from an undercover cop. You will be arrested for posession and distribution of a controlled substance...but it isn't really a controlled substance. But the intent is to purchase a controlled substance. You would be VERY hard pressed to convince a judge that your intention was NOT to purchase a controlled substance, but rather to purchase baby powder(or whatever they use...)

If I ask a prostitute how much it would cost for sex, I am arrested for attempted solicitation. I don't even have to have any cash on me, all I have to do is ask. The legal assumption is that I intend to participate in an illegal activity. It would be nearly impossible to convince a judge that my intentions were only to ask, not to actually purchase.

In the eyes of the judge, your intentions count. And it is assumed that the intent is to perform the illegal activity for which you are fined. Afterall...how many people stop their vehicle in the middle of the road to pick up a rope?...

That set-up scenario sounds SUPER shady.. What if you were just trying to get the snake out of the road? I guess it's probably illegal even to do that though. I think the intent of the laws is spot on, I just think some of them are a little bass ackwards. I have no doubt that several wardens would probably agree with that.

Imagine if you could buy a rubber boa from out of state and be legal if you could prove it was from out of state? Wouldn't that be better on the wild population than having to snatch one out of the wild? Wouldn't it be better if you could get out of your car to move a cali king off the road, with or without a license?

Anyway Chris, I guess there is no other option for us in California. You are going to have to get that permit and breed some albinos so that I can buy a pair from you, lol. All my hunts have failed so far, and the only local ones near me are the smaller charina bottae umbratica, which you can't take AT ALL. And I think some people believe it's not even an actual subspecies.. (Last I read about it..)

Originally Posted by tyflier

The problem is with "intent", and as we all know...people are arrested and/or fined based on percieved intent all the time, and there isn't anything that can be done about it.

You're right in that technically, you are being fined for picking up a rope. But the percieved intent is collecting without a license, and it is this that you are being ticketed for. You'd have to have a mighty talented lawyer to convince a judge that your intentions were to pick up a black and white banded rope rather than a kingsnake.


In the eyes of the judge, your intentions count. And it is assumed that the intent is to perform the illegal activity for which you are fined. Afterall...how many people stop their vehicle in the middle of the road to pick up a rope?...

LOL If I lived in the state, I would have a trunk filled with Black and White banded rope. I would blankly stare at the Warden and tell him I collect B/W rope. Take a look in my Trunk and have him look in the trunk filled with all the types of rope. lol He would think i was F'ing nuts and just drive away.

Originally Posted by tyflier

Afterall...how many people stop their vehicle in the middle of the road to pick up a rope?...

Depends . . . are we talking about a regular old brown, thready rope . . . or one of them new-fangled, fancy smooth black and white ropes?!

D80

PS. Congrats on the find. I didn't see a single snake on our 3 days in the ND Badlands. Not a hoggie, bullsnake, garter, or prairie rattler. Temps and weather were gorgeous.

Originally Posted by tyflier

Afterall...how many people stop their vehicle in the middle of the road to pick up a rope?...

LOL but if you have a trunk filled with B/W rope and other multi colored ropes well what could they say to a rope collector. lol


LOL I am sorry but can you imagine the Warden's face if you asked him if you could keep the rope.