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Animal Cruelty Local Boy Charged.(not for weak at heart)

amelanistic frank said:
and i find it pretty funny how noone has stepped uo to respond to the premise that keeping a snake in a glass tank for their own enjoyment is cruel.
nice sidestep.
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Frank believes that keeping snakes is cruel
Frank keeps snake(s) for his enjoyment (unless he's a researcher)
Sadists enjoy cruelty
Frank is a sadist

I don't really believe this, I think you just like to argue. If you really think snake keeping is cruel, then what the heck would you be doing here? I don't think you're a bad guy, you just feel passionately about this topic. So do other people.
 
And where did we think this thread would go? No wheres fast! I am just suprised Rich never toasted the whole post to begin with.. Obviously this kind of thing will bring unrest from the get go because everyone has their opinion. Hopefully the dead horse beating ends..

Regards
 
Roy Munson said:
Nice ad hominem-- last resort of the illogical. I never really offered you any advice, so who knows what you're sputtering on about. If you're implying that I attack other posters and call them names like you do, I'd say the burden of proof is on you. But now I will give you some advice: there's an 'ignore' feature on this board. Why don't you use it, and give the insults a rest. I would be honored to be the first on your ignore list. :grin01:

And don't worry about how I'm managing my time. It really isn't any of your gd business. :)
Click to expand...

blah blah blah...
 
Roy Munson said:
Frank believes that keeping snakes is cruel
Frank keeps snake(s) for his enjoyment (unless he's a researcher)
Sadists enjoy cruelty
Frank is a sadist

I don't really believe this, I think you just like to argue. If you really think snake keeping is cruel, then what the heck would you be doing here? I don't think you're a bad guy, you just feel passionately about this topic. So do other people.
Click to expand...

dean, i respect the last lines of this post. Consider my attacks retracted, and an apology offered.
 
shed'n my skin said:
Frank/Dave
Sorry you feel this way
While my opinion is different from your own I remember you were very nice to me when I had to euthanize a hatchling.
I hope you are having a good new year.
Click to expand...

jen- sorry to have included you in this. my apologies. happy new year to you. i just get sick of these opinions and arguements. perhaps i went about it wrong, but this garbage is just rediculous. this a forum for snakes, not cats, not peta freaks, etc.

but it seems moreso to be a forum to argue and have pissing matches, which people jump for the chance to join in...

for the record, I HATE ARGUING.

and also for the record, i have a guilty conscience- is my snake really happy? or is he just a prisoner looking for his chance for freedom?

i guess i will never know...
 
amelanistic frank said:
i just get sick of these opinions and arguements. perhaps i went about it wrong, but this garbage is just rediculous. this a forum for snakes, not cats, not peta freaks, etc.

but it seems moreso to be a forum to argue and have pissing matches, which people jump for the chance to join in...

for the record, I HATE ARGUING.

and also for the record, i have a guilty conscience- is my snake really happy? or is he just a prisoner looking for his chance for freedom?

i guess i will never know...
Click to expand...
Not that any one cares about my opinion, but ...
While this is indeed a cornsnake forum, this is also a kind of community. We are diverse people with a wide variety of interests and opinions. We can't get upset because someone wants to post a pic of their non-corn snake, their crestie, their dog or their opinion on some other topic. That is what the General Chit-chat area is for.
There is no possible way we are ALL going to agree on ANYTHING. That is perfectly fine and normal. The problems come when people come in with completely inflammatory posts like yours. You say you don't like to argue, but you wrote a post you knew would be offensive to a lot of people. I appreciate that you did apologize for some of your statements, but that does not negate all of your original comments.
If you have a problem with off topic threads you are free to skip over them. Some of us like to hear or see something different once in awhile, and enjoy a good discussion. And for some of us, we do spend a lot of our free time here because it is a way to multi-task a little around the house or workplace and still socialize, learn and share our hobbies. That is what makes this forum different from all the others, even Fauna.
I recognize that you are entitled to your opinion, as we all are. And even if we don't agree with another's opinion, we still have to show some respect.

As for captive snakes. Are they healthier, yes. Are they less stressed, I am sure. Are they happier, who knows. But that can be a discussion for another time.
Happy 2006 everyone and keep enjoying and sharing all your snakes, pics and miscellaneous chit chat :D
 
I also don't buy the "Only 14 years old" line. I'm 14, and I've never even THOUGHT about ever doing that. I was brought up around animals, and I love them, and it's hard for me to hurt anything. Hahah, I even try to shoo flies away before resorting to killing them.

We have 2 cats right now (4 cats altogether, 2nd generation. :D) and none of them have every tried to destroy our furniture, but here's my opinion:

I am VERY against declawing. I've researched it a lot, and know a lot about it. It is EXTREMELY painful to recover from. Cats walk on their toes, not their feet. It's kind of hard to walk on your toes when you've lost the tip of them. The way a cat is built, the shoulder, elbow, and back joints are all designed to distribute the cat's weight across the toes.

Just like people wearing the wrong shoes, declawing can actually even cause back pain in cats, not just leg pain. There can be nerve damage, hemorrhaging, and painful regrowth of the claw.

Cats also scratch to build muscle, too. So you actually weaken them a bit by declawing.

Do you know how they actually do it? They push on the cat's paw, exposing the claws. Then they take oversized nail clippers and clip the joint off. Wow. Imagine if you went too far with your nail clippers.

Spaying and neutering actually has direct benefits to cats. Well, I'm not sure about neutering, but when you're spayed, you can't get any cervical cancer, et cetera.

There aren't any REAL advantatges to declawing. You can simply trim your cats claws. They have special nail clippers for rounded claws. You can buy SoftPaws, little caps to fit over the claws. You just have to replace them every few weeks. Or you can actually -gasp- TRAIN your cat not to destroy your furniture. You can spray them with a water bottle, or if that's not on hand, then bop them lightly on the head. They hate that, but it's not going to cause them permanent brain damage. :rolleyes:

As for cropping ears and docking tails, I don't support those either. But I do think that docking tails is better than cropping ears. Cropping ears causes pain, especially if it's not done right. Almost half the ear is removed, and you have to go to a minimum of 3 months of ear taping.

As for tail docking, I personally think that most dogs would look better with their natural tails anyway.
 
Even if it was, the point was eloquently made. It's nice to hear from an educated teen these days! And there are benefits to neutering. Testicular cancer and other things like that are averted.
 
chibitamalove said:
I also don't buy the "Only 14 years old" line. I'm 14, and I've never even THOUGHT about ever doing that. I was brought up around animals, and I love them, and it's hard for me to hurt anything. Hahah, I even try to shoo flies away before resorting to killing them.

We have 2 cats right now (4 cats altogether, 2nd generation. :D) and none of them have every tried to destroy our furniture, but here's my opinion:

I am VERY against declawing. I've researched it a lot, and know a lot about it. It is EXTREMELY painful to recover from. Cats walk on their toes, not their feet. It's kind of hard to walk on your toes when you've lost the tip of them. The way a cat is built, the shoulder, elbow, and back joints are all designed to distribute the cat's weight across the toes.

Just like people wearing the wrong shoes, declawing can actually even cause back pain in cats, not just leg pain. There can be nerve damage, hemorrhaging, and painful regrowth of the claw.

Cats also scratch to build muscle, too. So you actually weaken them a bit by declawing.

Do you know how they actually do it? They push on the cat's paw, exposing the claws. Then they take oversized nail clippers and clip the joint off. Wow. Imagine if you went too far with your nail clippers.

Spaying and neutering actually has direct benefits to cats. Well, I'm not sure about neutering, but when you're spayed, you can't get any cervical cancer, et cetera.

There aren't any REAL advantatges to declawing. You can simply trim your cats claws. They have special nail clippers for rounded claws. You can buy SoftPaws, little caps to fit over the claws. You just have to replace them every few weeks. Or you can actually -gasp- TRAIN your cat not to destroy your furniture. You can spray them with a water bottle, or if that's not on hand, then bop them lightly on the head. They hate that, but it's not going to cause them permanent brain damage. :rolleyes:

As for cropping ears and docking tails, I don't support those either. But I do think that docking tails is better than cropping ears. Cropping ears causes pain, especially if it's not done right. Almost half the ear is removed, and you have to go to a minimum of 3 months of ear taping.

As for tail docking, I personally think that most dogs would look better with their natural tails anyway.
Click to expand...

100% agree with you. Actually 99% because the line *I'm only 14* is true we just have never used it because we are soo mature. :rolleyes:

I think people just want to dewclaw their cats because 1 they don't want anyone to get Scratched and 2 they are worried about the cats scratching stuff around their house.

Ohh and my dog got neutered 2 days ago, so I guess he is better off.
As Bob Barker says *Help control the pet population, have your pet spayed or neutered* Man I love that guy.
 
sorry to bust jimmy's bubble, but the actual procedure is horrific. They don't just make a little slit and cut the nail off. Think of someone cutting each of your fingers off at the first joint above the nail. THAT is the procedure, many cats have fantom pain and have behavior changes for the rest of thier lives. I think the USA should make laws that the UK has with thier animal welfare, it is illegal to declaw cats and also illegal to crop dogs ears. IE doberman pinchers, boxers and any other breed us in america think need the pointed ears, but are not born with them!. I am sorry to get on a soapbox on this issue but I would NEVER maim any animal i own just for the sake of my furniture or for vanity's sake!!!!
 
Roy Munson said:
Can't say the same for all those multiple-amputee declawed cats out there. :(
Click to expand...

Actually now (most places) don't remove the first finger in the bone. The nail is lazered away like lazer hair removal and it just doesnt grow back, the finger remains in tact.

I don't agree with either way, but I do find the new and more costly way of doing it to be more "humane"

(I did not read ahead, sorry if this has already been covered)

dionythicus said:
As for the kid who was maiming mice to protect his snakes, he should have been shown how to bop them or use another technique for stunning mice.
Click to expand...


Indeed, my question on this, is where were the parents with all of this :shrugs: , I for one educate my kids about the animals we have and about the proper way to care for them, and my kids are only 3! :nope:


***EDIT***

UGH! I just realized that this is a year old thread... I got wrapped up in the posts and never looked at the date, until it started to read familiar, I read this last year! :rolleyes: :headbang:
 
Haha, when I first posted, I didn't realize that this was a year old thread. I guess I didn't notice the second and third pages for some reason, and when I looked at the date, the last post was "12/13/05" And somehow, I read it as a 6, I guess. XD So I thought it was a 2 day old thread and decided to join in. :p
 
Oh yeah, when I -finally- noticed the second and third pages, and I was reading the posts, I realized why people were wishing each other a happy new year. I was thinking "I thought that the farthest time ahead or me was only around 12 hours!" :grin01:
 
chibitamalove said:
I was thinking "I thought that the farthest time ahead or me was only around 12 hours!" :grin01:
Click to expand...

LOL!!! At first I was wondering how this thread was found. Lately there have been old threads brought back to life.
 
WOW, i thot this thread has been dead for a loong time,
never the less, theres alot of good points in it

Now lets home someone doesnt bump my "biggest thread ever" :sidestep:
 
I can't say I'm a fan of declawing. I knew a declawed cat once, though. He lived outside, and I think he had some other health issues. Either way, he was the only cat I've ever known that I didn't like. He was a jerk. The little bugger bit me on the leg, and I had a scar for years.
 
I have had 4 cats over the years, all have been indoor/outdoor cats, none have been declawed. The one I have now in my apartment is a male who is neutered but not declawed nor will he ever be declawed. Not because I fear him getting outside, because I'm on a 3rd floor apartment, but because IMO it truely is cruel. But that is my opinion only....
 
snakemom1961 said:
I think the USA should make laws that the UK has with thier animal welfare, it is illegal to declaw cats and also illegal to crop dogs ears. IE doberman pinchers, boxers and any other breed us in america think need the pointed ears, but are not born with them!
Click to expand...

Whelp, I think that goes along with the whole "Land of the Free" thing us Americans have. ;)

I don't believe any of those things you mentioned are cruel if done properly. I think pure bred dogs should meet breed standards and I have had declawed cats who have never had a single issue with it. :shrugs:

I apologize for the :-offtopic and replying to a very old thread. :)
 
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