Beginner questions

[Donb]

I've got a 9yr old daughter who's been asking for a snake for ~2 yrs now.
We've been reading up on cornsnakes online, and I've got Kathy Love's Cornsnake Manual.
I have a couple of questions though.

When using a heat mat/pad under the enclosure, does it matter what it sets on? Should I worry about the amount of heat on the table, etc. that it is sitting on?

When using a rubbermaid container, does it sit directly on the heat mat?

Does a light, as a heatsource, offer more peace of mind in regards to potential fire hazard?

For someone just staring out, would a 2002, that is used to eating frozen and known to be non-agressive be a better choice than buying a 2003 hatchling?

My daughter seemed to have 2nd thoughts when she saw how large the corns get. Should we consider a Garter Snake because of this? It sounds as though the corns are easier to keep though.

Would I be able to request, from a breeder, a corn that is more likely to not grow quite as large? (based on the line it's from?)
I expect that once she's comfortable with the pet, the size would no longer be an issue, and as she gets a bit older she's might prefer a larger snake.

We stopped at a local pet shop a couple of weeks ago, and they had a 6-8" kingsnake (blk & white bands). She refused to hold it. She woudn't say why though. I don't know if maybe the coloration was intimidating to her or if it was because of other folks watching her. I'm not sure that she's really ready for one, but we're planning on going to the Reptile show in Indianapolis this weekend (4-27).
Hopefully seeing them first-hand will help us to decided if she's really ready.
She wasn't timid about petting a boa at the Children's museum last year....

I've not seen any links to buying frozen mice online.
Are there preferred vendors, or should I just do a google search and look for the least expensive price?
I'm still adding up costs/expenses, etc to help us decided.

Thanks for any comments.
Don

 

[13mur 6]

Hi there,

Okay, here goes in the order you gave the questions:

- The heat mat could be placed pretty much anywhere (even on the side of the tank). Most heatmats will get too hot, and depending on the heat mat there's couple things you can do. The cheapest thing to do would be to place the heat mat on the table (if it's one of those stick on types stick it to a pane of glass bought from the hardware store), and raise the tank above the heatmat using blocks of wood, soda bottle caps, anything you can find that will give the right temperature. The important thing is the temperature in the cage. The ideal thing to do is spend $30 more on a temperature regulating thermostat and plug the heat mat into there, and you can dial in what temperature you want and it'll regulate temps for you.

- Rubbermaids are surprizingly resistant to heat depending on the type you get. I find the opaque variety to be more resistant to warping than the translucent type. Once in a while I find a rubbermaid claiming to be bakeproof. However, due to the material rubbermaids are made out of (polymer, themoplastic variety), rubbermaids will warp given time if left directly on the heat mat, a phenomenon known as creep to us engineers (but just read the above, and you probably won't need to do so).

- IMHO, light sources are more of a hazard to fire than heat mats are. The heat mats I use are the sealed flexwatt variety (not those stick on types), and I can't see anyway one of those can burn out short of a defect. With a light source, the bulbs can break, the lamp can fall, if something's too close to the bulb it can get real hot, you need to change the bulb, you need to turn the bulb off at night and make sure temps meet required temps, the bulbs can explode if confined and doesn't dissipate heat quickly enough, etc. A big hassle overall. However, if you own a big sturdy lamp with one of those posable necks, sure, go for it, and get a decent bulb while you're at it (those dayglo bulbs that give of UVA and UVB). Snakes don't really need UVA and UVB like lizards do, but that study hasn't been completely confirmed yet.

- Yes, an established feeder is much easier to work with than a hatchling. Hatchlings especially are prone to strike and hiss and rattle their tails (something they grow out of, but something alot of new snake keepers complain about). So a non-aggressive established 2002 would be the way to go assuming you had that option open to you (big breeders sell out quick).

- Yep, no snake is more forgiving and handleable than a corn. Garters make pretty good pets too and there are an absolute ton of color morphs on garters as well. But garters eat more, and are a little less friendly (depending on what species you get). They also need more humidity, due to being a watersnake. Also an interesting thing to note, corns feel very smooth due to having unkeeled scales, just the feel of a strong muscular corn is very pleasing. Garters have keeled scales and feel rough in comparison. Also, most garters are wild caught and need a bit of "cleaning" (vet bills can add up...).

- Certain morphs of corn actually stay smaller than most. Okeetees are known to be one of the larger corn morphs. Miamis and Rosy rats tend to be on the smaller side (around 3 ft). They're normal corn morphs so they're rather inexpensive, but they're rather pretty (miamis look very cute IMHO, red saddles on a white silver background). However, this is not a definate, since most corns have been crossbred with other corns, and a particular miami might have an okeetee's gene for size and turn out to be a 5 ft behemoth.

- Kingsnakes kinda scare me too. Maybe it's the small head that's almost entirely black (so you can't see the eyes), no discernable neck either. They're not all that cute looking, especially the type you described. They also eat other snakes. So maybe your daughter had good intuition, maybe she thought "this is a bad snake". Or maybe it reminded her of a coral snake, which are poisonous (most animals know not to bother a coral snake even on their very first encounter with one).

- RodentPro is a pretty good place to get mice from (I think it's just www.RodentPro.com). They're prices are okay, but you'll need to order ALOT of mice to keep the price down (the packing costs the bulk of the money). Another alternative would simply buy them a couple at a time from the petstore if they have them (they can get expensive, upwards to over $1 each, compared to ~15 cents per from an online dealer).

Well I wish you the best of luck. I think the more opportunities you provide for your daughter to come into contact with corns, you'll get a better feel for how "ready" she is. I think almost everyone grows out of any initial fears they had about snakes. Keep us posted on how things go.

-13mur 6

 

[Donb]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply.
Knowing what is required for placement of the container is helpful.

 

[CornCrazy]

Just thought I'd post a kingsnake picture to show there's nothing to be afraid of...

I personally would get a kingsnake before getting a garter, but corns definitely take the top prize! They are the best! I have 19 corns (4 of them creamsicles), 4 kings, and 2 milk snakes. As you can tell corns are my favorites!

A 2002 corn that has been handled a lot would be a much better choice than a 2003 hatchling. I agree on that point.

I have another suggestion regarding what to put the heat mat on...I use a smooth melamine cutting board because it, like the rubbermaids, are quite heat resistant. I simply stick the heat pad to the top of the cutting board and apply the rubber "feet" which comes with the heat mat to the four bottom corners. This has worked really well for me.

This is a picture of my albino striped cal king...isn't he cute???

 

[pinatamonkey]

I agree that heat lamps have more ways to fail, but I don't know what the actual failure rate compared to heat pads is. I have heard of people's snakes getting burned or killed from a malfunctioning heat pad or thermostat, but not from a light bulb gone wrong. Not that I recommend heat lamps, in fact out of 11 snake cages, only 3 have heat lamps, and one of those is for a tree boa where a UTH wouldn't do much good. Well, I only have heat pads on 4 cages, too.

 

[CowBoyWay]

good questions...

You have done your homework, we like that in a member. Good advice guys.
Icksnay on the gartersnay.
An '02 Crimson would be a nice choice if available. Definitely go with the corn,
I suspect that the more her confidence level builds. the less of an issue the size will become.
http://serpenco.com/cultivars/crimson.html
An '02 pair with shipping would set you back $150 bucks U.S. delivered currently as these are considered yearlings now, maybe you should get one for yourself and share the hobby.
Budget be damned

Quote from the Serpenco site.

"To get a good idea of what we are dealing with here, just take your typical Miami phase corn, which is attractive in it's own right, and make all of the colors about twice as bright, and you have an idea of what the Crimson looks like.
Of course, it helps if you've been doing selective breeding with the Miami phase corns for over 20 years. The name 'Crimson' originated from the brilliant red coloration that the dorsal blotches can have in many of the babies. Of course, there can be some substantial changes taking place as the animals mature, but you still usually get quite an attractive looking snake as an adult." "

oh,oh I'm all excited now, where can I get 150 bucks for more critters,hmmm.

I have another suggestion regarding what to put the heat mat on...I use a smooth melamine cutting board because it, like the rubbermaids, are quite heat resistant. I simply stick the heat pad to the top of the cutting board and apply the rubber "feet" which comes with the heat mat to the four bottom corners. This has worked really well for me.

I have three small Exo-Terra Under Tank Heaters that have been free floating around that have been begging to have that adhesive side of theirs glued to something.
Exo-terra UTH's by Hagen are basically a flexwatt with a very correct and safe cord rigging. Recommended product. Runs hot out of the box like all the rest though, temperature compensation required.

Most plastic type cutting boards are usually/ most likely made from High Density Polyethylene, HDPE.

HDPE complies with FDA requirements for direct food contact applications.

It is also accepted by USDA, NSF and Canadian Department of Agriculture
Applications.

HDPE cutting boards and uth's are a great idea. That wont go up in a ball a flames..
I could see adhering a uth to a HDPE cutting board and then using a matching board and use like 1/4" to 1/2"= (12.5mm?) screw nuts (or washers) as spacers glued to the four corners.

In the winter, the interior mounted under tank heater side is up and in summer time the boards are flipped over to run degrees cooler with the 1/2 " spacing or so venting the heat.
Sounds feasible for a low tech heat regulation gizmo, the 99 cent store has some cutting boards that oughta work.
I shall experiment.

Flexwatt and fire
http://www.boaphileplastic.com/flexwatt.html

A thread called "Beginners questions" should have some Corn Snake Care sheets links in it, why not?
http://coloherp.org/careshts/snakes/cornsnake.php
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareInfo/CareCorn.html
http://www.cornsnake.net/new/care.php3
http://www.kingsnake.com/rockymountain/RMHPages/RMHnewpage11.htm

And this one with a little bit more advanced keeper information.http://vetcity.com/Infocenter/Snakes.html