"Blue" Motleys

[ecreipeoj]

Do you guys remember these? There was a thread started a few months back about an ad on the net, selling “Blue” Motleys. The thread turned a bit heated and was a very interesting topic.

I ended up buying the pair, just to see how they would turn out after I saw some photos from the actual breeders of the Blue Motleys. They are turning out very nice. We could debate whether or not they should be called blue anything, but they are definitely beautiful.

The male seems to have a blue head and a blue case to his body. Both of them have developed quite a bit of intense pink coloration and both have a Cobra attitude!

I don’t know what the genetics are behind them, but it will be interesting to breed these into a couple of projects and see what pops out. A test breeding to an Anery A Corn will be interesting. They are growing very nicely and should be able to breed in 05.

The pictures came out pretty good, but they still don’t show how intensely PINK, these guys really are. I have some pink Anery A’s, but they don’t compare.

 

[Cindy]

I love the elephants head markings on them all....
:-offtopic

 

[brownie55]

I don’t know what the genetics are behind them, but it will be interesting to breed these into a couple of projects and see what pops out.

Joe,

Please forgive me for asking this, but with the above quote, does it matter that there may be non-corn snake lineage in this pair? I am not opposed to hybrids, but I think that hybrids should be created and sold with full knowledge of the decission. So, if I stepped on toes, I am sorry, but I'd like to get your take.

Thanks

 

[pewter]

wow, what a snake even the wood is glowing blue :-D

 

[ecreipeoj]

wow, what a snake even the wood is glowing blue :-D

I knew somebody was going to say that. I am innocent! LOL I saw that too. I took this first photo of some of my Amel Lava hatchlings and had the same problem. I was just experimenting with my camera and thought I would try to see if I could capture their true colors. I failed miserably.

I did not doctor the photos, but the male was in a clear blue Sterite container, so there is blue light shining on the bedding and the snake I am sure from the background light.

I took some more photos as the sun was going down tonight and I think I actually captured how pink they really are. The Blue didn't show up of course. I wish I could capture the dark and light colors of a snake in the same photo.

One of the Threads about these guys was called Pink Motleys which is a little more appropriate if you ask me. They are obviously and Anery type Motley that are incredibly pink.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Yes, Tell us what you know.

Joe,

Please forgive me for asking this, but with the above quote, does it matter that there may be non-corn snake lineage in this pair? I am not opposed to hybrids, but I think that hybrids should be created and sold with full knowledge of the decission. So, if I stepped on toes, I am sorry, but I'd like to get your take.

Thanks

Everything that I know about the “Blue” Motleys has been posted on this forum and by talking to the people who produce these particular “Blue” Motleys via email. I really don’t know anything about their origins, except that the breeders of these came in with a shipment to a wholesaler and were labeled Anery Corns. Their background was not known beyond that. Here are the links to the other threads that discussed the “Blue” Motleys.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10074&highlight=Blue

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7441&highlight=Moyley



It would definitely matter to me if they are not pure corns. I have not heard anything that would lead me to believe they are anything other than pure corns. If anybody has any information otherwise, if would be great for everybody to know, so please post what you know. It the previous threads about them, there was no information that would have lead me to believe they are a hybrid of some type.

I have always been a purest in the past, but lately I am getting softer on that stand. I have never owned a Creamcicle for that reason, but I wouldn’t have a problem with it these days. Hybrids should definitely be represented as such. It is very possible for anybody, to maintain breeding groups of pure corns and hybrids in their colony and easily keep them separate and offer them for sale as what they really are.

I never owned a hybrid as far as I know in the past, but last year one of my male Gray Bands died in hibernation and I ended up breeding two of my Gray Banded females to an Amel Ruthveni. I kept 1.2 of them and I also bought 1.2 Albino Pueblans which are 50% Ruthveni. I have had Apricot Pueblans for many years and thought it would be interesting to try to produce some screaming Amel Orange Pueblans. I could still maintain a pure Pueblan breeding group and play with the Hybrids as well. The Hybrid Amel Pueblans would be a very good pet shop item down the road.

The issue of hybrids is as split as most political issues. Hybrids are here and here to stay, so we need to deal with them. They will always have the potential to become Space Garbage and pollute pure lines, but I don’t see how we can prevent that completely. Knowledge about the background of the snake we buy is our best protection, but nobody really knows what was bred into their Amel Corn they just bought by the thousands of people who have bred them in the past. I have had some of my lines of Corns for 20 years, but I bought them from somebody and do not remember who I bought most of them from. I bought them as such and such morph but, their background is not really known beyond that. I think this is the case with most Corns in peoples collections.

 

[Simon]

Well I can't really see too much 'blue' in them...
but I would agree with the pink motley.

And from the photos I can tell you one thing for sure.

THEY DON'T LIKE YOU AT ALL!!! Look at them...all cureled up in the "S" shape ready to strike and flattening its little head...now to me I think that they're telling you that they don't like you and want to come home with me~ So send them over for the sake of the snakes~!

I would rather call these Pink Anery Motleys than Blue Motleys....cause when I think of Blue, I really think of blue...like sky blue, the blue on this forum is also nice~~

 

[ecreipeoj]

I love the elephants head markings on them all....
:-offtopic

You mean these Elephant head markings. They are cute aren't they! One is blue and the other is pink. It is amazing what different lighting can do to your digital photos.

 

[ecreipeoj]

I would rather call these Pink Anery Motleys than Blue Motleys....cause when I think of Blue, I really think of blue...like sky blue, the blue on this forum is also nice~~

I don't care what they end up being called. They are not my baby. They have been sold fairly widely as "Blue" Motleys, so I guess we will see what happens as time goes on. Pink Motley, Pink Anery Motley or Blue Motleys, they are all the same snake.

There is a serious objection to adding BLUE to the name of any corn that is not this color blue as I have found out in the past. I know a blue corn is possible, because I have some new contenders.

I have quite a few Anery's and these have a different look. My other Pink Anerys look brown at a distance, but not these guys. They have a Blue Steel coloring to them and blue in some areas. Like, I said it is not my baby, but I am not usually easily impressed. Every time I feed these guys, I am amazed at how striking they look.

Here are a couple more photos of the "Blue" Motleys in different lighting. One is under cloudy lighting and the other was with a flash under the same conditions. The last two photos are of one of my Pink Anerys. They look very different. I need to get them outside and see what they really look like.

 

[brownie55]

Thanks

Thank you, sir, for your considered response regarding hybrids.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Darn!

I was hoping that you had some first hand knowledge about the origins of the “Blue” Motleys. Hybrid is such a dirty word and one that people dance around and make claims that they could not possible have any knowledge of. Actually a hybrid has more back ground information than many morphs of corns. At least we know what the background of a hybrid is. Many morphs of corns have been around for a very long time and many people have had there hands on their lineage. Would anybody bet their life that their amel corn has no other blood in it than pure corns?

Considering the thousands upon thousands of corns that are sold in trade shows, pet shops and shipped all over the country by breeders, the odds are that Amel Corns are not pure. Besides the way corns are sold without any tracking of their background, people come and go in this hobby and when they sell their corns and hybrids the background on them is lost as well. There is basically no background on any morph that has been around awhile. We know the story behind how they were developed, but the pure lineage is not known.

This is where I stand on hybrids. There is no registry for Corns and nobody can be 100% sure of the purity of their Corns without lying. To say that my corns are pure as far as I know, is not a lie, but to ignore the possibility of other blood in them, and to not be able to prove the linage of their corns to be 100% pure, is coming up a little short if you ask me. To say that my corns are “pure as far as I know” is being vague and a little dishonest. “As far as I know” means that they bought them as X morph and that is all the background information they have on them. Nothing more!

What other morphs have been accused of being a hybrid? How about Bloods, Lavenders, Caramels, Ultras, Lavas, Stripes, Motleys and the list goes on and on. I remember distinctly hybrid talk about each and every one of these morphs. All of the hybrid talk about each and every one of them that I know of was nothing more than pure speculation.

If just one of them was started by hybridization, then they have polluted each and every one of them. Amel Corns have been bred into each one of them and then recovered and sold as pure Amel Corns. If just one is not pure corn, then all morphs of corns are tainted.

Locality breeders of corns like Hunt Club Okeetees, can make very substantiated claims as to the purity of their corns, but morph breeders have to say “As far as I know”, my corns are pure. Are we lying to ourselves, or are we lying to our customers? How many corns are purchased from pet shops? How many morphs were found in pet shops? Pet Shops buy almost all of their animals from Wholesalers. Wholesalers buy everybody’s left overs they can not sell. Pet Shops can’t even label Corns right. How many people on this forum have found Corns in Pet Shops that were miss labeled? I am sorry, but “As far as I know” is a lie.

All of my Corns are pure as far as I know, but I realize that there is a very distinct possibility that any and perhaps all morphs of corns are tainted. A statement like, "I have no background information on these guys at all.", brings to mind Hybrid and was not correct. I should have said that they were purchased from a Wholesaler as Anery Corns. In either case, there is no background information on them at all, beyond one chain of custody.

 

[Jason B.]

I unterstand your point that non of us can know for sure that are corns are pure unless we catch them are selves and even then we can't be %100 sure. When I ask a seller If thier corns are pure and they tell me "as far as I know"thats what I want to here. I just don't wan't someone breeding a luecistic texas rat to a corn and then selling the eventual hybrid luecistics to me as corns without disclosing that they are indeed hybrids.I respect your position, but for me "as far as I know" is being honest. When we all start to eccept anything without question eventualy we will have a bunch of heinz 57 snakes.At least when you ask you have a much better chance of keeping your collection closer to pure.

 

[Rich Z]

The first time I saw or heard of "Blue Motleys" was from some animals Fred and Audrey Buscher (sp?) had. They were selling some full adults a few years ago.

They didn't look blue to me either at that time.

 

[ecreipeoj]

When I ask a seller If thier corns are pure and they tell me "as far as I know"thats what I want to here.

At least when you ask you have a much better chance of keeping your collection closer to pure.

Realistically, this is all we have.

One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. I have known and heard of more than one bad apple in our hobby/business over the years.

Hybrid does sound nasty doesn’t it!, at least to the purist. I have avoided having Hybrids in my collection for many years, because many people automatically think that if a breeder has one hybrid then he accepts it and any of his snakes could be hybrids. Frankly, I was scared of being labeled in that way. I use to raise and produced many Indian and Ceylonese Pythons in the past, which are endangered and understand completely why hybrids are looked down upon, by many.

Today, I see several big breeders or good sized breeders with Hybrids. I personally think, that if a breeders discloses that he has a group of hybrid breeders and offers them as such along side of his “as far as he knows“ pure stock, he is trying to be as honest as he possibly can be. What more could we really ask for?

I think the old stereotype of a breeder having hybrids as being untrustworthy, and tainting his whole collection was completely opposite of what it should have been. They are being up front and honest. It is the basement hybridizor’s that are the bad apples. Space garbage doesn’t help either, but it can not be eliminated without a registry, which is frankly impossible.