Dancing gone wrong.

[susang]

I'm sure the girls realized that the outfits did not cover their arms, bellies, or upper legs, but their hind ends are not exposed at all as the bottoms are shortsm and neither are their chests. The tops are not triangle bikini tops, they are wide bandeau type tops. The outfits are embellished, yes, but the idea that they are meant to make the girls look "sexy" is an adult idea, and an inappropriate one at that. The style of dance is similar to the style of dance that my high school's competitive dance team used when I was in high school. These girls are just getting a leg up on the competition for when they're older. I'm sure they are proficient in other areas of dance as well if they can do the dance they did in the video in question..

I have not to much of a problem with the outfit, but I am sure their parents know they are skimpy. They are not in high school so cannot be compared to high school dance team.

[/QUOTE]Dance styles change over time, and often times older individuals do not find these new styles to be appropriate, but ask yourself; did your parents think your styles of dancing when you were young, were always appropriate? What about your style of clothing, or choice of hairstyle? Did you listen to music that might not have been age appropriate when you were young? Most kids WANT to grow up really quickly, and they absolutely don't want to be treated like babies after a certain point..[/QUOTE]

Yes I am older but I like hip hop, rap... Thee are babies 8-9 year olkd girls cannot make their own decisions that is what parents are for.


[/QUOTE]People always want somewhat questionable things like this to become some sort of scandal, and it's quite absurd really. So what if the girls can dance as well as older dancers? They have talent. It may not be the type of talent that some believe is age appropriate, or want their own children to have, but I bet they placed high in that dance competition. The upbringing of a child is the responsibility of the parent, other people should have little to no influence on this unless there is abuse or another serious issue. The girls in the video were having fun, not trying to attract members of the opposite sex.[/QUOTE]

Well good for their parents, but I wonder how many pediphiles were int he audience or watching that video.

Old but not stupid

 

[susang]

It's the newer style of dance. Being 19 as well I would think that you would know that, however you may have more conservative views than I do. I'm saying the idea that the dance is sexually suggestive is an idea that adults have placed on the dance. The girls learned the moves, they don't know what they suggest.

Considering you are an adult and you even think that dance is suggestive...
So guess young kids dont' pump their hips during certain sexual acts, boy it was so much fun when I was younger:roflmao: Yes those girls no what they suggest, but more the people that are supposed to protect them and keep them safe, so do their parents.

 

[luckycharm318]

I was not comparing the outfits to those that were in my high school, those were actually much more concealing than the ones the girls in the video are wearing. I was comparing the style of somewhat synchronized dance and a mixture of different styles.

I was not singling you out as an older individual, I was just making a point that often times older people don't like newer trends. I agree that parents should make big decisions for children, but what would you do if all your child really wanted to do was dance? What if it was this style? Would you deny them the chance to be good at something just because you do not agree with it? It's like a few young people here who have the desire to own a snake but are unable to because their parents won't allow it, most all of them have plans to own them later on though.

I'm sure there are quite a few pedophiles now watching that video and many other videos that are completely innocent on the internet, but I doubt that there were too many in the audience. The video was never meant to be posted online for the world to see, but unfortunately it was. The competition wasn't geared specifically towards young girls either, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of pedophiles being present altogether.

I agree that it is not really age appropriate, but everyone is entitled to raise their children however they please as long as they are not hurting them. The girls had fun, and they did very well. I don't want to change your opinion on it being wrong, I'm just saying that there are always two sides to a story. Usually the innocent side and the blown out of proportion side. People see what they want, and often do not acknowledge what they do not want to see.

 

[susang]

I was not comparing the outfits to those that were in my high school, those were actually much more concealing than the ones the girls in the video are wearing. I was comparing the style of somewhat synchronized dance and a mixture of different styles.

I was not singling you out as an older individual, I was just making a point that often times older people don't like newer trends. I agree that parents should make big decisions for children, but what would you do if all your child really wanted to do was dance? What if it was this style? Would you deny them the chance to be good at something just because you do not agree with it? It's like a few young people here who have the desire to own a snake but are unable to because their parents won't allow it, most all of them have plans to own them later on though.

Let them dance with closer supervision. Dance trends and wanting to do what peers do are trends, like today I want a snake, the next day they get and then get board,

I'm sure there are quite a few pedophiles now watching that video and many other videos that are completely innocent on the internet, but I doubt that there were too many in the audience. The video was never meant to be posted online for the world to see, but unfortunately it was. The competition wasn't geared specifically towards young girls either, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of pedophiles being present altogether.

Wven one in the audience is too many, feed feed the monkies.

I agree that it is not really age appropriate, but everyone is entitled to raise their children however they please as long as they are not hurting them. The girls had fun, and they did very well. I don't want to change your opinion on it being wrong, I'm just saying that there are always two sides to a story. Usually the innocent side and the blown out of proportion side. People see what they want, and often do not acknowledge what they do not want to see.

You see two sides you are right and I am wrong, I see two views of a situation, when adults may have acted more appropriatly. I don't care if my kid kicked, screamed and yelled. I am not their friend I am their parent very strict maybe. For good reason.

This has nothing to do with dance but decisions parents make.
You see one day my youngest grand-daughter, two of her sisters and 18 yo step sister (driver of car and 'old' enough to make decisions ). The youngest who needed a booster seat delined 'she wanted to be a big girl'. She was in the back passenger seat, her older sister in front passenger seat. They were in a Suzuki, a 3/4 ton pick-up hit them should I go on. Parents in this case step-parents should have made the decision. See the line of comand is parents tell children what they can do, not because they are mean, because they have better judgement.

 

[luckycharm318]

I never said you were wrong, I said that your opinion of the situation was that it was wrong for the parents to let their children participate.

 

[SnakeAround]

I think since there is no real NEED to dress them like this, clothing could be tight, but less decorated and covering more of the body. More like gymnastics, functional closing indeed. That way there can be no misunderstanding about the purpose of the clothing: to show body lines, not to make the girls look sexually arousing. If all dancing schools agree on that, no kid would think they'd look less pretty then other competitors. It's up to the adults to explain why they can't dress like Beyonce her self, if they feel that is necessary. Sometimes kids have to accept something as it is though. They can dress up like Cinderella if they want to look pretty.

Accepting the movements as being dance moves, is then the job of the adults watching it. One can obviously see that the girls actually are performing these moves as technical moves, they are not trying to invite males indeed. There facial expression is that of fun and concentration, not of seduction. If one does not see that, then that person is the pervert. There are lines to draw though when it comes to taking in consideration what some perverts might think: they could also go to the swimming pool to see kids body lines and naked legs and arms, there are laws dealing with pedophiles already.

The fact hat the girls are performing these moves in a technical way, even makes the 'erotic' clothing look ridiculous, like we, as the adults dressing them, would WANT those moves to be sexually inviting though they are not. Hence, dressing them appropriate would take away any suggestion of erotic means, showing this as what is is and should be: an innocent performance of talented young dancers.

The fact that pop dance nowadays involves sexually implicit moves, is something we can't change in, but maybe we should try to change the fact that these ways of dancing enter dancing classes for young children. There are many ways of dancing that do not involve sexually implicit moves. Of course, kids still would want to dance like Beyonce, but it's up to the adults to not support them in that. Maybe they'll appreciate those other ways of dancing/showing your physical abilities, and learn to see that here is more then pop and hip hop, involving women being portraited as sex objects. That might protect them from thinking that being sexy is the only way to being feminine, attract males and be popular. Eventually, maybe that whole urban dance culture would only involve kids of appropriate age, letting younger ones perform other types of dance. That would be even better then just dressing them appropriate.

Over here, there are some VERY popualr artists for young audiences, which are not acting in a sexual way at all. They sing about kid's things and kids do imitate their innocent dance moves and routines. There are even instructional DVD's for that. That way, we over here are able to separate pop and hiphop culture with the obvious sexual element from the world of kids. I don't think over here in Holland, 8 year olds perform like Beyonce in dancing class.

 

[danielle]

I can appreciate both sides of this and don't find it necessary to tell anyone their wrong- it's an opinion. This routine incorporated ballet, modern, and hip hop moves which are all styles of dance any young dancer is trained in. As dancers age they specialize picking one or two forms to perform and compete in. The thing I think of is a pedophile is aroused by anything kid oriented. They stake out parks, school playgrounds, swimming pools, sports events, malls, and so on to quench a thirst for young children because they are mentally impaired. So since I am not mentally impaired I have a hard time seeing these girls as sexual objects- they are girls performing. It comes down to if this style of dance and competition make you uncomfortable it is probably not something you are your child should engage in and thats fine.

Rules in one house are not the same in others it's a fact of life growing up. My kids can't have sleep overs out of our home, play outside alone, or where skirts without shorts underneath. It is a struggle to take my 8 year old shopping and find shorts, dresses, or skirts that cover her tush and believe me she wants them because thats what her friends wear- but I say no because I'm the parent. However, clothing designers these days make children's clothing for prostitots now not little girls Skaters, gymnasts, and catholic school girls look every bit as provocative as these girls did if you find these girls provocative in the first place

 

[smallfry]

Amen, Danielle! I remember long long ago reading a psych article describing the increase in pedophile related cases increasing anytime one of those Coppertone signs was put up...the one where the dog is pulling down the little girl's bathing suit...if something that simple is going to arouse action in a pedophile, then anything will.

We could get into the whole freudian thing, but I don't think that would help anything in this convo. :laugh:

 

[SnakeAround]

My kids can't have sleep overs out of our home, play outside alone, or where skirts without shorts underneath. It is a struggle to take my 8 year old shopping and find shorts, dresses, or skirts that cover her tush and believe me she wants them because thats what her friends wear- but I say no because I'm the parent. However, clothing designers these days make children's clothing for prostitots now not little girls Skaters, gymnasts, and catholic school girls look every bit as provocative as these girls did if you find these girls provocative in the first place

There's something wrong with your society then, seriously. Maybe people should not accept that, starting boycotting any brand or dancing school dressing kids as prostitutes.

 

[wstphal]

I think since there is no real NEED to dress them like this, clothing could be tight, but less decorated and covering more of the body. More like gymnastics, functional closing indeed. That way there can be no misunderstanding about the purpose of the clothing: to show body lines, not to make the girls look sexually arousing. If all dancing schools agree on that, no kid would think they'd look less pretty then other competitors.

This is what I thought. Leotards & tights, so that the lines of the body can be seen because that's necessary for the judges, but clearly indicates this is dance competition. Allow the coloring of the leotards & tights to be varied to go with the routines. It still wouldn't be "modest" but it would clearly separate hip-hop dance competition from hip-hop dance done by adults that is intended to look enticing. And dance is intrinsically not 100% modest, which is why some churches ban ALL forms of dance including things like square-dancing, so I don't see that as an issue, people who believe all dancing is immodest can & should keep their kids out of dance classes.

 

[diamondlil]

The irony of this is that Beyonce is quite modestly dressed in the video for that song, in a leotard!

 

[susang]

. My kids can't have sleep overs out of our home, play outside alone, or where skirts without shorts underneath. It is a struggle to take my 8 year old shopping and find shorts, dresses, or skirts that cover her tush and believe me she wants them because thats what her friends wear- but I say no because I'm the parent. However, clothing designers these days make children's clothing for prostitots now not little girls Skaters, gymnasts, and catholic school girls look every bit as provocative as these girls did if you find these girls provocative in the first place

Totally agree, a little girl in a skirt without shorts, UGH. Not because I have a warped mind, not because the parents are overly conservative. Little girls don't know how so sit like 'young ladies' 24/7.

There's something wrong with your society then, seriously. Maybe people should not accept that, starting boycotting any brand or dancing school dressing kids as prostitutes.

I hope that was a lack of grasp of English language, otherwise ????

 

[SnakeAround]

I mean the American society in general, which I think you live in? If nobody would buy these prostitute like clothing, they would not be offered. I'm glad people like you refuse to buy them.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

What makes you think the girls don't know the moves are sexual or mean to be viewed as "sexy"? Because they're young? They're fully capable of knowing that certain dance moves are meant to make you look attractive, and they're capable of knowing what moves are really suggestive.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Lucky, I think you need to read the thread about this dance in the link I'm posting, it has some very valid points as to why this dance COULD harm the girls in the long run. Sexualization of children is NOT healthy for them.

http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=52067&st=0

I hope you don't have to log in to read it or anything.

 

[Snakes Incorporated]

Stop Slutting Up Our Girls (Says this Digital Dad)
posted by: Cynthia Samuels

Last week I attended my first dance competition with my daughter. It was a lot of fun to see girls of all ages strut their stuff on the stage and do an amazing job at it. The talent in these young ladies was amazing to see.
What I wasn’t ready for was seeing young girls in fishnets, tight boy shorts and thigh high leather boots. The teased hair, fake eye lashes and gyrating bodies on stage. I talked about this on Digital Dads and was glad to hear that the other dads were equally upset by it.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I am the farthest thing from an uptight prude. But, as I sat there in the audience and watched the 6 & 7 year old teams shake things they didn’t have and perform moves that were more appropriate for a stripper pole then a school stage I had to stop and wonder. Why are we letting our kids do this? Worse yet, why were there parents in the audience hooting and hollering every time they did an extra sexy move? How is it that suddenly slutting up our girls is ok with parents?

If you need a visual to make this real for you, take a look at this video below. It hit the web yesterday and after Jessica Gottlieb wrote about it, I knew I had to share my thoughts. Keep in mind that the girls in this video are seven and eight years old.



I can appreciate the girls dancing skills (they are super talented in that video) and I’ve heard the arguments of “they are just costumes”, but all of it still pisses me off. If you can’t handle watching the whole thing, the last 20 seconds or so will be enough to make you scream.

I have a daughter. I see the way she is marketed to. I’ve taken her shopping and seen the outfits that hang on display. Most of it is fine, but so much of it is far from that. Sure, sex sells, but do we need to be selling it to girls so young that they haven’t even developed yet? There is no reason for that.

This is not going to be one of those scream at society pieces, because I firmly believe that it is the job of the parent to not let this happen to their own kids. It is up to you to say, “no you can’t wear that” and explain why something is inappropriate. We can scream all we want, but when I heard those other parents cheering on the girls on stage (just listen to the video) it made me shake my head in shame. I wanted to stand up and turn around and ask point blank, “what the hell are you doing?”

One thing, that this personal experience has taught me is that I’ve got to be more involved if Emily is going to continue doing dance. I had never seen the routines she was working on, until they were on stage. I had seen the costumes ahead of time and they were fine. But, if she had come home with some of the outfits that I saw other girls in what would I have done? I’ve been thinking a lot about that and I know for sure I wouldn’t have allowed her to do it. That would not have been easy as I know dance is turning into a bit of a passion for her, but I would have needed to do it.

My daughter is growing up with a deep rooted self confidence. I want her to know that whatever she ends up looking like that she is her own person. That she is beautiful, smart, awesome and unique. There is nothing wrong with being sexy and flirtatious. That is part of the fun of being a human and while I’m scared to death of when she figures that out, I know it is part of growing up.

Parents, you are the last line of defense here. The old saying that sex sells is a fact and we all know it. That is never going to change, but does sex have to sell in your house? No, it doesn’t. This is a problem that parents are allowing to happen. Complain all you want about what is happening in our world, but the more active you are as a parent and not allow things like this to happen the better we all will be.

 

[susang]

I mean the American society in general, which I think you live in? If nobody would buy these prostitute like clothing, they would not be offered. I'm glad people like you refuse to buy them.

While I am one of the most politically liberal people on this forum, I firmly believe the US is made up of people from every country. I defend people trying to earn a living in this country, trying to have 'the American Dream' (whatever that is)
What I don't like is someone in another country pointing a finger at the U.S. as if the country they live in is so much better. I am sure every country has it's short comings. I don't deny your right to an opinion about this dance, but don't put it on us as in 'your society'.
While I may stand far left of the flag of this country I still stand by it.

 

[SnakeAround]

@susang: I can happily admit that 'my society' has some short comings too (even in the same area as the subject of this topic), does that make a difference for you? I'm not saying it's your responsibility, but it is the society you live in, which allows this. I think you make it more personal than it is/than I mean to. Sorry if I have insulted you, I did not mean to.

 

[susang]

@susang: I can happily admit that 'my society' has some short comings too (even in the same area as the subject of this topic), does that make a difference for you? I'm not saying it's your responsibility, but it is the society you live in, which allows this. I think you make it more personal than it is/than I mean to. Sorry if I have insulted you, I did not mean to.

Then it is the society we all live not just this country,

 

[danielle]

Off topic I know , but it isn't an American society thing for little girls to dress skimpier than I find appropriate- it's pretty global. Clothing designers on the whole make children's clothing backless, strapless, short, and low cut- sad but true. I agree if more parents boycotted this type of clothing maybe things would change, but thats just never going to happen. However, I stand by the distinction of dance clothes and regular everyday clothes. My daughter dances and wears your average looking dance uniforms though out of dance can't wear a bikini, short skirt/shorts, or spaghetti strapped tank tops. Cheer-leading, pom, and dance routines are either seen as suggestive or as a sport- to each their own.

To Vicki- you have to understand your taking adult sexual ideologies and applying them to children. My 8 year old knows what sex is and what it's for- but doesn't yet have the mental maturity to understand what being sexy is or how to do that. All that bumping and grinding has actual real technical dance names and has since the 80's- not a new thing. As far as the sexualization of kids that really is in the adult mind and subject to differing definitions of what sexuality is. To me my sexuality is about being confident in my own skin, feeling beautiful regardless of my flaws, and having the self-esteem and inner happiness not to seek out sex for attention because I don't need it. To feel sexy is to feel secure within- not to feel like doing it to every tom, dick, or harry that shows an interest. Those people are insecure, not in tune with their sexuality, and lack confidence and self respect. If anything dance helps people understand their body, builds confidence and self-esteem, and gives them the discipline to make decisions out of that confidence because they are happy with themselves.

I grew up dancing, cheering, and was a pom through high school and have never had a one night stand, or been sexually promiscuous. Allowing girls to express themselves through movement is a positive thing and not something myself or the hundreds of other dancers I know feel is sexy