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Serpwidgets

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Everybody knows some people who are not into corns, and/or know nothing about their genetics. So, please ask one or more of those people the following question, and report back the answers you get.

Q- "If I told you I had a snake that was called a "snow blood" what do you think it looks like?"

I asked my friend Ian the question and here's what I got:

A- "White with red spots. Anyone who has ever lived in snow has seen blood on snow. Snow and blood is white with red spots..."

Please, share your experiences here.
 
Hey Serp,

Lets also ask:

I have a snake called an Avalanche Corn, what would you think it looks like? and see what replies that one gets.

It should be very interesting.

Walter :wavey:
P.S. I will be getting with you soon on getting the 2005 version of your book. :cool:
 
:-offtopic This question is only secondary, and there is already a thread devoted to that. Many people have indicated that they believe "snow blood" IS a good descriptor, so let's put it to the test. :santa:
 
Serpwidgets said:
:-offtopic This question is only secondary, and there is already a thread devoted to that. Many people have indicated that they believe "snow blood" IS a good descriptor, so let's put it to the test. :santa:

Well it seems to me that since there is already a thread covering this question and MANY people believe that "Snow Blood" IS a good descriptor over "Avalanche", then it has already been put to the test.

I'm not sure what's trying to be proven by the question :shrugs:

Walter :wavey:
 
Gee, I hope I don't get a big fat off topic sign too, but...
I sappose if you ask someone with no genetic knowledge what an amel, anery, or hypo corn would look like and they wouldn't be able to tell you either. I don't think there is anything that could be done to help people who know nothing about corns. However, if we try our best to stick with using the names of recessive genes instead of trade names a person only has to learn the dozen or so recessive genes and they would know what makes up any corn labled by it's traits.
Like I said, rank beginners will have to start somewhere. Hopefully they will start with all the single recessive traits including "Blood" the pattern trait not the color trait. You take someone with that basic knowledge and they know what a Snow Blood is. You ask them about Avalaches, Glaciers, Raiders, Plasmas....
We have to tackle this issue knowing that dozens of new morphs are on the horizon. With all the combinations possible we could end up with dozens and dozens of morphs. You're great at numbers and genetics Serp, how many combinations possible are there? If we give them all trade names how many names is that for people to have learn and ask about? Not to mention all the discussions finding one everyone endes up settling on so we can all try to stay universal. LOL. :crazy02:
However, again if we teach them the basic traits and use those traits in the lable whenever possible it gets way less messy.
 
I asked my daughter who knows ziltch about snakes, what these names made her think of. No other info (other then it was related to corn snake) was supplied her other then what it made her think of.

Amel = a male snake
anery = a baby female snake
hypo = an A-D-D snake
Snow Blood = a white snake with red viens
diffuse = an electrical snake
 
I don't think the question is unreasonable to ask. If you don't want to answer it, then don't. But I would appreciate if people would not pull the thread off track.

As an alternative to the above verbal-only question, I would offer this one:

Which one of these snakes is a "snow blood?"
 

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Well, I don't know if I would say Walter's question was off topic or secondary. My reasoning is that if you want to know if Snow Blood holds up when asked to a person who knows nothing about either corns or the genetics of corns, then the same really should definitely apply to ALL names given to our corns to be a fair question in determining the results.

I will say that I feel the reason people are saying they think that Snow Blood is a good indicator of the morph is because it tells us what that snake is without having to learn a new trade name and then what the trade name stands for, especially when it is a mixture of color and pattern names where a simple use of the mixture gives the picture well.

When a "newbie" starts learning about corns (or anything someone is newly into) they start with the basics. That is a must if you want to understand what you are learning. So, that means we start with the simple morphs and what color/look that name stands for. All the basic forms have names, and most of which are pretty properly descriptive of the corn's looks or hold a more scientific term. If a person learns the basic morphs...... amel, anery, snow, normal, motley, stripe, bloodred, caramel, butter, etc., then when they hear that a snake is a Caramel Blood Motley, they have a pretty good mental vision of what that snake will possibly look like. They know it will be a caramel type coloring with the "diffussion" of the blood and with some sort of motley type pattern. What that snake will exactly look like is dependent on the particular genes but we still get a pretty good picture possibility. So, this is why the name Snow Blood is considered a good indicator of what the morph is.....simply because, that is exactly what the morph is.

Believe me, I am not saying Avalanche is a bad name as I very much like it. But do we want to do this? And if so, is it for the betterment of our hobby?

Obviously if a new trait is found that is not related to the ones already have names, such as Lava and our newly found Ultramel, then these have to be given desinated names as we can't refer to the snake as "the corn with the funny hypo and amel combined look".

I think it is just people are asking that we take a step back and slow down and look at why we want to name something, if it is really necessary to apply a trade name to it and maybe even come up with some standard of naming that will benefit the corn business/hobby as its future progresses, maybe like what Walter suggested in his posting about not giving snakes with combined color and pattern traits designated names but saving designated names for multi color trait animals and such. I am not saying that this is a given choice for a naming standard, just that maybe if we put our heads together we can come up with some sort of standard to use in the "naming game" so it doesn't end up to be a free-for-all some time down the road that everyone will be regretting.

As more and more people get involved with the corns, it is going to get more and more imparative that some sort of organization of things take place so the future in this wonderful hobby/business of ours is not "blown open". I am NOT saying that is what is happening now but that it is something that I think anyone who has a serious interest in this hobby should keep in mind. For what we do today will impact the hobby tomorrow, there is no denying that. I think we really have to be careful of what trends we want to start. Should we consider how many trade names we want to have to be explaining to new comers down the road and why they are being applied? I, personally, think it is possible to have too many for the good of the hobby.

I hope that this doesn't come across as me being against having and making trade names, for I am not. Just that I hope we look at all avenues and try to come up with a solution that is for the betterment of our hobby before we go on.

Well, that was my one cent thought. ;)
 
Which one of these snakes is a "snow blood?"

But Serp, there is another side to this argument. If you were to ask a person who has no concept of football what a "first down" is, he/she may just tell you it is the first person to get knocked down. That does not mean the name is not appropriate or proper for the game. Anyone who is asked should have basic knowledge of the topic in hand. Every form of activity known to man has its own language and if you want to be involved in that activity you need to learn the basics of it.

If you know what a "snow" corn is and if you know what a "blood (diffused)" corn is than you will know that A & C are out of the picture. Are you saying that someone would know if asked "which one of these is an "avalanche?" Now, they may guess B simply because it is all white, but that does NOT tell them what that corn is. They still have to learn that it is a "snow blood" and back even up another step and learn what a snow is and a blood is and back up more to an anery and an amel.

So, let them learn the basics and the terms like "snow blood" will not be a road block but a builder of a picture. :)
 
I've tried to ask a question, and all I get in response, except from Clint, is filibistering and attempts to pull this thread off topic. Thanks Clint, I appreciate your effort.

Has anyone else gotten a chance to ask either question and gotten a response? Thanks.
 
As for the second question, "which of these snakes is a Snow Blood".
The same could be done with the term "Raider". I don't mean to change the direction of this thread at all, just to use your reasoning on your own adopted terms.
If you showed a complete beginner (person # 1) an Anery A, an Anery A Motley, and a Anery A Blood and asked them which one was a "Raider" corn. I doubt thier chances would be any better than 1 in 3 of getting the right answer. Which is OK, because honestly at that stage the customer is only going to buy the "most attractive" one in thier eyes that fits thier budget, no matter what it is called.
Now if you showed the same mix of snakes to a person that has only basic knowledge of all the recessive traits (person # 2), I still doubt they would have an easy time picking out the "Raider" corns. If they did any better it would only be by using a process of elimination.
Now I admit, person #1 will not have any easier time if you asked them to pick out the "Anery A Blood", but like I said, they are just going to buy the one they like best in thier price range.
Person # 2, however, would be able to pick out the Anery A Blood, the Anery, and the Anery Motley.

Same goes for the "Snow Blood", take a beginner and of course they aren't going to understand. Ask the same question with an Avalanche, a Blizzard, and a Snow corn in the line up. See if beginners could tell you which one the Avalanche is. I doubt they could.

I do like the name Avalanche as well, and I think it is much better at describing the look than "Snow Blood". However, with the future and past in mind, and all the dozens of morphs on the way, continuing to use cutsey names that physically match the few specimens we are going off of at the time is not the most thought out idea.
 
And to be fair, I asked the only subject available this time of night. I asked my ten year old son what a "Snow Blood" would look like and he said it would look like "Bubbles". "Bubbles" is one of our breeder females in our High Pink Snow line. So guess he was invisioning a pink snake.
 
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I don't mean to change the direction of this thread at all, just to use your reasoning on your own adopted terms.
I have presented no "reasoning" yet, nor any "adopted terms." But because you know I am opposed to your position you have to try to find something to be argumentative about. You are putting words in my mouth and then arguing with those words in order to try to show that I am "wrong" before I have even tried to make a single point. The "straw man" arguments, which you and others keep trying to use to derail this thread, have nothing to do with the point I am trying to illustrate.
 
Serp here are my results

I asked the questions you posed to the follwoing people and their answers are stated as follows:

Wife - She knows corns pretty well for not being actively involved with my collection. Avalanche - white or snow looking like a blizzard corn. Snow-Blood - white with red shwoing in its pattern.

Co-worker - knows nothing about snakes except for what he learns from me when he brings his snake finds into the office for me to identify:) Avalanche - "that's the name of snake? I guess it would be white". Snow-Blood - white w/ red or maybe pink coloring.

My 10 month old - babaglrppp...dadda...momma....kitkit:) Sorry had to add that for my own amusement.

But I do get the point.

Russ Bates
 
The ten month old makes a good point. ;) :santa:

LOL at "babaglrppp...dadda...momma....kitkit"... just curious are to who/what kitkit is? I'm not even going to try and fathom the babaglrppp. ;)
 
I asked two of my co-workers:

Michelle: 1- "Red and white" and 2- "A."

Gordon: 2- "White with red stripes" and "C."
 
KIT KIT is

what he calls our kitty cats. Yeah the other one....who knows...he was probably trying to tell me how corn snake genetics have become such a weird and tangled mess that we don't stand a chance of figuring it out and that I should quit, sell all my snakes, and buy him more toys:)

Russ
 
I am gonna be both on and off topic. Forgive me please. I have my amel and my motley and I am happy with them, I hear about the other morphs and all I see are dollar signs. I remember being very confused by this when I first started looking, and I remember what my thoughts as to what these would look like when I first followed the links:

Snow blood = red and white like my amel "Bubba," but since I knew he was an amel, I figured something more distinct, like a candy cane.

Avalanche = Pure white background, swirls of grey, just like you see in the pics of a mountain side avalanche (was going to say "snow," but that is another discussion.)

Regarding the terms amel, anery, and hypo... well those are shortened and knowing what the abreviations mean, I can go to a dictionary and look them up. Those are all real words. Now, adding ultramel to that, if you use the same logic, that should be an ultra (very) melanistic (black) snake. OK, I know it's not, another problem for me.

Even given that every hobby has it's own unique jargon, blood/bloodred is really a misleading description, especially when you get to anery (no red) bloodred. Even an experienced herper should go "HUH!" at that point.

Thanks for listening, your mileage may vary.
 
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