Don't shoot me for this but...

[Anel & Dirk]

...ever consider Artificial Insemmination(?) in snakes or more specifically in corns?

Please, da last thing I want is to start a moral debate (stoning), but think of the scientific probabillities!

I mean, howzabout crossing sunkissed corns with red tail boas?

I mean with only corns its not really neccassary, but with hybrids with from previously unworking species?

Naja Nivea with E. Guttatta?

Please don't stone me for da moral thing...

 

[Mick]

Keep in mind that depending on the two snake species, they may be no more closely related than humans are to elephant shrews. My guess is that Naja x Elaphe = slugs, if it even gets that far. That said, corns and other rats have been crossed with just about anything from the rat/milk/king/bull complex, and they're generally pretty happy to do the insemination on their own (with some 'presentation' tricks). My guess is that at the point where you'd have to artificially inseminate, you've probably reached the boundary of viability of offspring anyway.
---Mick

p.s. - Hi. Think this is my first post here. Not sure how often I'll be around, but it does look a little more promising than that 'other' corn forum.

 

[Kat]

*bang*, you're dead

Actually, it's been discussed before... mostly for the purpose of long-distance studding, or for doing corn/king crosses and whatnot. I think it's feasable, though it may take a good amount of trial and error until it becomes truely worthwhile.

But can you imagine buying a sperm packet from a lavender motley male, or some other hard-to-get morph? Something like this could also widen the rift in price and desirablility between male and female corns. Then there will be people that will collect sperm from a normal corn and try and pass it off as hypo bloodred sperm... There are quite a few implications, some good, some bad, but if someone wants to develop the process, it'll happen reguardless.

As for crossing cornsnakes with elapids and boids... I would have sincere doubts that it'd work. My guess is that cornsnake fertility is limited to other North (maybe South too) American colubrids, and those that lay eggs only as well (so no corn-garters). Ergo, the most impressive snake I can think of to attempt a cross with would be an Indigo, and imagine the people you'd have chasing you down for that one.

-Kat Hall

 

[Anel & Dirk]

Mick

howzit and welcome mate!

Kat

Check my location, whats an Indigo? (Or am I being stupid?)

But my favorite cross would be an Oketee Corn with (ssssh, dont tell): A puff adder.

Imagine this fat little snake with corn colours, puff adder patterns and that goes hiss whilst constricting its prey! AHOI!

 

[rachel132002]

Yeah,

interesting theories so this is just another, nature is a seriously strange, beautiful and screwed up thing so God only knows what's lurking out there that we just haven't found yet maybe there's a bloodred python or something, lol if only!


Rach

 

[Kat]

An Indigo is the largest North American colubrid... Do a google search on Eastern Indigos and see what I mean. They're an endangered species, though, and those few herpers that breed them are exceedingly... uh... hostile about any sort of suggestions towards messing with the species, reguardless of what it is... (Picture the response you get when talking about cornsnake hybrids, and the response you'd get from Indigo people would be 10x-100x that or so...)

-Kat

 

[carol]

Hmmm....
Thats a good idea Kat! Maybe I'll pick up a pair of Indigos next year, I always wanted a pair. I wonder if Dwight would have done that, but I don't think he can keep those guys were he is at. He was talking about doing some new world x old world ratsnake crosses, egg laying x live bearing, and hot x non-hots... I wonder what he got away with this year???

 

[h0mersimps0n]

Sometimes you can breed animals in the same genus with different species, but if I'm not mistaked colobroids and boa's are different genus and different species so offspring wouldn't be possible or at best not verile.

I don't have time to look up the genius and species of boas, corns, etc but I'm pretty sure thats how breeding is limited.

There's a really good example someone can hunt down if you cross a horse with a mule you get a donkey and nearly all donkey's are sterile because horses and mules are same genus different species. If no one has clarified this "off the top of my head stuff" I'll look it up and give more precise answers tonight, sorry, low on time.

God I love science!

 

[h0mersimps0n]

Here, enjoy this read in the meantime, I'll be back for more later

REALLY GOOD

". Reduced Hybrid Viability. Genetic incompatibilities between the species may abort the development of the hybrid during some stage of development. Difference in chromosome number may cause abnormal cell division. Since the chromosomes align to insure equal distribution upon cytokinesis, abnormal chromosome counts could occur based on this numerical difference.
"

Damn I'm good



QUICKIE

 

[carol]

LOL, except donkeys aren't sterile. Horses and donkeys make mules, and it is the mules that are sterile.

 

[Kat]

Even that's not 100%, carol. It's rare, but the occasional mule is capable of reproducing. (I think there've been 3 such recorded cases?)...

Aaanyway, there are lots of legal issues involved with acquiring, owning, and breeding Indigos (since they ARE endangered), so be prepared... I've also heard they're a pain to breed. I don't even know if it's legal to crossbreed them...

-Kat

 

[h0mersimps0n]

yeah I knew it was something like that, thanks for the clarification

 

[carol]

Even that's not 100%, carol.

Nothing is 100%, that's becoming my motto more and more. I believe Indigos are legal in California, I don't even think you need a permit. (again not 100% on that one) As far as the legalities of cross breeding, I haven't looked into that. I'll have to do some reading on the laws as well as husbandry over the winter. I won't count on getting any help from "Indigo" people. Not only do most of them hate hybrids, most of them dislike corns as well. Interesting group of people.

 

[h0mersimps0n]

what is an indego? pics?

 

[Chip]

As far as Eastern indigos go

You'll need a federal permit. Even that won't help you if you are in Georgia or a couple of other states where they occur naturally. Maybe Texas indigos are another matter, I have an Email pen pal who breeds both and I'll ask.
The biggest obstacle I see in crossing Drys with corns is HUGE size difference and a larger snake that is a pronounced snake-eater. And even breeding Drys to each other is hard enough. I think it would be as difficult as unscrambling an egg. UNLESS you had a method of and tried artifical insemination.

Carol- I've owned one Eastern in my life. Magnificant snake. Great inquisitive personality. And an eating, pooping machine. On a mouse-only diet, it's feces smell like rotten dead flesh. Just something to know, not trying to turn you away from them.

Homer, you *can* cross genus. Kings and bulls are different genuses than corns and it's been done. Personally, I wouldn't own any of these hybrids. Besides, it worries me that they will muddy up gene pools forever when people think they are getting a "straight" species (not an intergrade) and produce lots of offspring. Which will then be passed into the unwary hands of many more. Natural intergrades are one thing, the coastal plains milk is one of my fave all time Lampropeltis.

But Okeetee/ adder!!!

BANG! You're dead...

I get mad enough when folks cross them with normals and keep the name.

Vipers have "live" young anyway, so not remotely possible unless technology gets even weirder soon...

 

[h0mersimps0n]

elrojo, just between you and me a lot of the snakes I've seen lately and even some of my stripes and stuff seem to have a very "kingsnake" shape to them (i.e. more rigid headlines), I fear many corn lines are already tainted, I imagine a future where pure lines are actually the more expensive, not like now where the opposite is true, lol....

 

[Rich Z]

Heck, I used to breed eastern Indigos when I lived in Maryland. One of my biggest regrets in moving to Florida was having to get rid of them. Really neat animals to work with.

Breeding isn't so tough if you know the ropes. They are NOT typical colubrids! One of my fondest memories is holding a double handful of newly hatched baby eastern Indigos that made my day by hatching out exactly on my birthday.

As for as hybridizing them? Hah! They would likely EAT anything else you put in with them.

 

[Chip]

Hey Rich!

I'm upset that even you can't keep them there in the sunshine state. I'm THINKING about dabbling with them again, if I should do so, would you "show me the ropes?" What a birthday that must've been! Oh, two things, when IS your birthday and will you forgive me for posting this Dry pic.? I'll delete it if you want. I just want to show the folks the magnitude of the species. Just this one time, I won't ever do it again!

 

[Anel & Dirk]

If you guys could read afrikaans this next statement would be deleted:

Goeie donnerse BLIKSEM!

Thats a beauty!!

Getting back 2 breeding, here in SA and I think also in india, Horses and Zebra's have bred and we now get some that is brown one half of its body and striped the other! And their fertile!!

But da genus think sortof makes sence though!

Imagine an Indigo x Candycane corn!!

Hell Yeah!

 

[Anel & Dirk]

Elrojo

Just to duck at least one bullet there, but I hope you understood that I meant the colours of da oketee rather than its name oan therefore its heritage...

We'll call my creation...

Wham Bam, Thank You Mam, Oops, I Bit You Whilst Sleeping - cor-nadder!

HEHE