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executive order 3/16/2012

Carinata said:
Men who sleep around, I don't carry a very high opinion of either. I think peoples general irresponsibility in this nation is insane. Take some responsibility. If you're having sex, you should know the risks and accept them.
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So out of curiosity, how is getting an abortion NOT a consequence? Have you ever had one?
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Again, BOTH republicans and democrats are HYPOCRITES.

I am an American, plain and simple! I believe in personal liberties such as gun ownership and making decisions for my OWN body. I believe in the freedom of the constitution.
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I second this, most emphatically.
 
tsst said:
I understand it is mythically based but that doesn't change the intent. A friend I had in Texas used to say "it's raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock". Now I don't for a minute think he meant bovine urine was falling from the sky but I understood his implication. IMHO an analogy need not be based in fact nor be scientifically proven to make a point.
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Famous Texan saying LOL
 
Shiari said:
So, what about your claim about the situations I listed? How about the fact that OVER HALF get an abortion because the birth control FAILED?
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I think that using birth control, is fine. My problem comes when I see people thinking birth control is the be all and end all. It does fail, and at that point people need to take some personal responsibility.
 
Carinata said:
Never said that. Geez you liberals are some good and shoving words into my mouth. The keyword is careless. Women who carelessly, have sex. Men are just as bad and just as responsible, but last time I checked, we don't carry the child .
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So, in an inequal situation (Women bear 100% of the consequence of pregnancy, whereas men bear 0%), why would stripping women of the ability to use contraception, but not men to use, say, viagra, not be bigotry?
 
Nova_C said:
So out of curiosity, how is getting an abortion NOT a consequence? Have you ever had one?
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Well seeing as I have a penis....no. If I had a vagina, I still wouldn't have an abortion. It is a consequence, I'm not downplaying that, but personal responsibility needs to be taken on both the mother and fathers account.
 
Nova_C said:
So, in an inequal situation (Women bear 100% of the consequence of pregnancy, whereas men bear 0%), why would stripping women of the ability to use contraception, but not men to use, say, viagra, not be bigotry?
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Oh my god. It's like pissing up a rope. Contracaption is fine. Abortion unless it's in the care of rape, incest, or a fatal risk to the woman (forgot that one), in my eyes is wrong.
 
Carinata said:
I think that using birth control, is fine. My problem comes when I see people thinking birth control is the be all and end all. It does fail, and at that point people need to take some personal responsibility.
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If they're using birth control to not have a child, for whatever reason, then terminating the pregnancy early IS a responsible action.

There are thousands of children in foster care that are not getting adopted. Their statistics for success are poor. Why should a person add to that population?

Also, you are basically saying that unless you want a child you should never have sex. What if I don't want kids at all? What if the risks associated with being pregnant scare me? What if I'm married, and still don't want kids and have that fear. Are you telling me I should NEVER sleep with my husband?
 
Carinata said:
Well seeing as I have a penis....no. If I had a vagina, I still wouldn't have an abortion. It is a consequence, I'm not downplaying that, but personal responsibility needs to be taken on both the mother and fathers account.
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Again, how is insurance covering the cost of doctor prescribed contraception, something that makes insurance cheaper because contraception is cheaper than paying for the costs associated with having a baby, and the availability of abortions allowing women to have sex consequence free?

Carinata, I would love to understand your position, but so far I have not been able to because it doesn't make sense. Birth control pills are a static cost regardless of whether a woman is celibate and taking the pill for medical reasons, or if she is having sex ten times a day. The cost is static. Insurance companies pay less overall when they supply contraception, making insurance cheaper, thereby making it so no one who is buying that insurance is actually paying for it since it costs less than insurance that doesn't provide contraception.

And finally, insurance covers viagra and not a single person has criticized that.
 
Shiari said:
If they're using birth control to not have a child, for whatever reason, then terminating the pregnancy early IS a responsible action.

There are thousands of children in foster care that are not getting adopted. Their statistics for success are poor. Why should a person add to that population?
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I feel like that statement is saying, that it's better to be dead, than in foster care. I know people who were adopted. They wouldn't like it if I said, "well your mom should have just aborted you.". I think that's downright degrading.

Now, this thread wasn't started on the basis on birth control. Let's get back on topic, shall we?
 
Nova_C said:
Again, how is insurance covering the cost of doctor prescribed contraception, something that makes insurance cheaper because contraception is cheaper than paying for the costs associated with having a baby, and the availability of abortions allowing women to have sex consequence free?

Carinata, I would love to understand your position, but so far I have not been able to because it doesn't make sense. Birth control pills are a static cost regardless of whether a woman is celibate and taking the pill for medical reasons, or if she is having sex ten times a day. The cost is static. Insurance companies pay less overall when they supply contraception, making insurance cheaper, thereby making it so no one who is buying that insurance is actually paying for it since it costs less than insurance that doesn't provide contraception.

And finally, insurance covers viagra and not a single person has criticized that.
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Last time I checked, erectile dysfunction wasn't a choice.
 
It was a thread about the Government imposing on our liberties! I agree with Tsst and the reasons he stated about the executive order infringing on our freedoms. I agree with Shiari on the fact of having the personal liberty over her OWN body.
 
Just some pregnancy complications that women must worry about:

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/cholestasispregnancy.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/bleedingduringpreg.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/pih.htm
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/placentaaccreta.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/placentalabruption.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/gestationaldiabetes.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/highamnioticfluidpolyhydramnios.htm
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/lowamnioticfluidoligohydramnios.htm
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/preeclampsia.html

Things you will NEVER experience. YOU do not have to worry about DYING because of being pregnant.
 
Carinata said:
The feeling is mutual, my friend :)
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Really? You mean the posts where I was discussing this EO with tsst don't count?

Anyway, I've been asking around about this. The most specific information I can get is that this isn't about the law from the 60s that is basically eminent domain as far as I can tell, only with more oomph in a time of war, but that it's about a DoD project. Anyway, there's an awful lot of reactionary smokescreen that's drowning out what the government is actually up to, so I don't really know what the point of this EO is.
 
Carinata said:
Last time I checked, erectile dysfunction wasn't a choice.
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Last time I checked, birth control also wasn't used JUST to prevent babies, but also treat other things like unusually heavy periods, severe cramping, endometriosis, and a whole host of other things.
 
Shiari said:
Just some pregnancy complications that women must worry about:

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/cholestasispregnancy.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/bleedingduringpreg.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/pih.htm
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/placentaaccreta.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/placentalabruption.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/gestationaldiabetes.html
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/highamnioticfluidpolyhydramnios.htm
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/lowamnioticfluidoligohydramnios.htm
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/preeclampsia.html

Things you will NEVER experience. YOU do not have to worry about DYING because of being pregnant.
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The most amazing part of the whole contraception debate that just floors me is this notion that the consequences for sex MUST NOT BE AVOIDED. Like, what? Men avoid them all the time and no one is legislating anything to change this, but women are being railroaded constantly because of how dangerous pregnancy can be and now these jagoffs want to make it even worse by denying women contraception and even the ability to remove a stillborn fetus. Like, this is so obviously a war on women that I can't believe people are actually defending any of it. It's so ridiculously evil. Like, Bond villain ridiculousness.
 
Shiari said:
Last time I checked, birth control also wasn't used JUST to prevent babies, but also treat other things like unusually heavy periods, severe cramping, endometriosis, and a whole host of other things.
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And Viagra is a vasodialator. There are tons of other vasodialators on the market besides viagra.
 
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