Finally PICTURES!!

[KRIZ]

Like I said before I have nothing to hide The fact is blue eyes asked if anyone new if her snake was gravid I gave her a answer and gave her a P.M. told her she can call my home if she needed too. Just told her to breed it to a diffrent cross next so they dont look like pure corns. egg just came on to start trouble as any one can see no were did he post any help he just went on and tryed to bash me here is the post.

I'm gone for a week and have to come back to this?? DAMN! I wish my spring break were longer now. Reguarding your initial questoins Blue Eyes, Your female looks eaither really gravid, or really fat. Going on what I've read and discussed with you in the chat, I say she's gravid as hell. As far as Joe's posts about the mice go, if you continue to feed appropriate sized mice, I would feed one mouse twice a week instead of two mice once a week. I think it's healthier to feed her two meals seperate than two meals at once, after all, look at what McDonald's has done to America .

Sorry but isnt that answering the question vinman???

 

[Vinman]

Joe this is post #1
inally PICTURES!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YAY! PICTURES!! lol anyways thats my male normal and thats my female jungle. They bred once and i saw the discharge afterwards. Now my question is... can you guys tell shes developing eggs? Is she pregnant for sure? Hope you like the pictures!!
__________________
2002 Male Normal "Gandalf"
2003 Female Jungle "Coco"

This is all she asked The only reason I brang up the fact that it might be a mexicana cross was a reply to the coment on the size of the snake for its age . If you had a earlier coveration on the chat fourm about feeding you should have continued that topic there. your reply had nothing to do with the question. I'm not being mean but when you are not a breeder you shouldn't answer breeder questions Leave that to someone with breeding exp.One day soon you will be a breeder I'm shure but for right now it might be better for you to point people in the right direction than give them second hand kowelage. I know that put this nicely so not to hurt your feelings . I hope you take it this way. about me taking heat this is nothing, I grew on the tuff streets of the bronx in a mostly Italian neighborhood . Everybody who knows me well will tell you I"m the most strait up person you will ever meet . I tell it like it is and I dont run from anybody I one S.M.F.

 

[Vinman]

KRIZ yes ,you are right one whole sentance ,now you tell me what did that post mostly consist of bashing me. look at most of the content lets be fair also she already new that her snake was gravid and thank me in a post

 

[Susan]

Vinman - Just do us all a favor and please shut up. You're just making a fool out of yourself. And if you want to bash my 10 years experience in keeping and breeding corns, or my 22 years experience as a certified veterinary technician, go ahead.

 

[noelsmum]

Hmmm...

:eek1:

Perhaps 'tis time for everyone to take a deep breath and walk away. The direct personal attacks are not reflecting well on anyone.

 

[E. g. guttata]

The fact remains that the thread was started for the sole intent to know if her snake was gravid If there was any queation about her feeding her snake then you should have saved that topic for the chat room. this thred was started to know if her snake was gravid stay on the subject. Egg no way in hell can you compare one clutch in seven years to the thousands of eggs that I hatch in 20 years this is the most foolish thing you ever said. one clutch with so many problems . I'm glad I dont have your animals or maybee you dont how to incubate you eggs , thats to many problems in one clutch so now you hatch one problem clutch in seven years and now you are a expert. you go on to say that you havent had every problem , so how can you compare this to 20 years of hatchling snakes, do you realize what you wright.

Now that I've calmed a little after you decided to post this, I am more willing to "play fair". How can you say that I claim to be an expert where I have said myself that I have yet to deal with all the problems I can. There are lists of problems that I have yet to deal with, and, to me, that tells me that I'm doing things right THE FIRST TIME. The fact that my snakes are VERY healthy, well-eating, and active just goes to show you that I am doing things well. In the last 7 years, the only real problems that I had were regurgitation, and lack of eating. Both of these problems were very short-lived. Now that we've covered my snakes, how about yours? Why would someone not want your snakes? Because feeding turkey, chicken, and pork is not a complete diet for a corn, no matter how many neck bones and liver parts you give them. As stated many times in the thread you started about it, there is no way to make up the lack of brain matter and other nutrition you are denying them by using the food you do. Now am I saying that your animals may not be as healthy as they appear, but if this is working for you, keep it up, but I will NEVER buy a snake from you for this and other reasons. Why do you seem to think that the world owes you something? I know that I don't owe you anything. Again, the reason I came on this thread in the first place was to see what I've missed in the last week. Now please stop starting crap with others. It makes you look juvinile.

 

[Vinman]

I have not started with you I held my end of the bargen, when you write that your one clutch in 7 years had alot of problems and that exp. is equal too my 20 years . You know better than that ,you said that just to get a rise out of me. egg I'm not mad You are the one getting heated . this was soposed to be swquashed between you and me we both agreed. If I have a problem with joe that is between me and joe . He has know problem sticking up for himself . he is a adult and does a good job defending himself. You said you had premies in your clutch , low temps. have caused this to happen to me. I found that when I incubate my eggs bewteen 80 -82 degrees I get larger babies and more snakes in the clutch eat pinkies right off the bat. Hope this info will help you out for next time good luck

 

[E. g. guttata]

There you go falling into a trap. I never told you how many premies I had. If I were to tell you that my heating temps were around 82 degrees or so and that I had only ONE premie, I doubt you'd believe me. But since that was the case, there is a problem there. As far as the 7 years of keeping snakes, and one successful clutch against your 22 years of keeping and hundreds of clutches, how many different problems are there right out of the egg that I haven't had, including malformation (kinks and two heads/bodies)? You still haven't convinced me in any way that your years of experience beyond my own age is any better than my 7 years of experience. Again, just because you can flaunt how long you have been keeping and breeding snakes, doesn't mean that you have learned anything. I have learned a lot by participating in this forum over the last year, most of it being genetics. As far as the breeding, husbandry, and care for sick corns, I already know it. I know the signs of all the most common problems, though I have never dealt with them. You say that your experience outweighs mine, but how do you plan on proving it??

 

[Vinman]

you said that you had premies and you had a hard time getting hatchlings to eat you never said how many but I offer some info to you . to help you out for next time. Their a lot of problems I had to deal with over the years includeing egg repair. have fun being angery I have better things to do with my life. latter

 

[DdotSpot]

Vinman - Just do us all a favor and please shut up. You're just making a fool out of yourself. And if you want to bash my 10 years experience in keeping and breeding corns, or my 22 years experience as a certified veterinary technician, go ahead.

I'd have to agree with Susan here. Vinman, you are making a fool of yourself, please quit posting.

 

[Bluebeard]

does anybody have any chesse? casue there seems to be alot of wine around here

 

[E. g. guttata]

LMFAO BB!!! Anywyas, after this thread, I am convinced Vinny didn't really learn a lot on his chicken neck thread. There are ways to express the fact that you disagree with someone without trying to jump down their throat (I believe that JTGoff69 calls it tact). Unfortunately for Vinny, he doesn't exercise this, though he's shown that he can. Civility is a great way to get people to listen to you, not yelling about how much experience you have and trying to belittle others to get your point accross. Unfortunately, Vinny seems to think that anyone that has kept corns for less time than he has, obviously has no idea what they're doing, and he's made it painfully clear many times. This is the only thing that I get upset about. I have yet to see Don or Rich get upset about somone talking about something a little off-topic (such as the rat pups that Vinny got pissy about in this thread) or for people criticising their ideas. Granted, they have been breeding their snakes for longer than Vinny, but I have yet to see them jump down Vinny's or anyone else's throat because they have more experience. Experience is not measured in time, but in the situations you deal with. If I kept 10,000 corns over a period of 45 years, and had no problems with anything, then how am I more experienced than the kid who has been keeping 10 corns for 5 years but has had to deal with things like cronic regurge, mouthrot, bacterial and viral infections, and corns with mites/tics/parasites? I think the kid with all the problems has more experience simply because he's had to deal with more. You can disagree with me all you want Vinny, but I think this makes the few problems I've dealt with in my last clutch very good for my experience points, though you measure in years and snakes owned. I think your measuring device needs to be changed before you will even think about respecting someone. Your noggin is a good tool to use, not your emotions. Emotions get people in trouble, but reason get's them praised.

 

[robin h]

OK, I could see the point in the hybrid x pure breeding....I don't like seeing that either...

I don't see why everybody is acting so dumb....:S

Vinman, you behave like a young child, there is no snake-collecting and breeding-match or something....

I think you don't like it when you are learning things from young corn-keepers...you seem a little frustrated....I don't know why...

I don't know why you are against young keepers....me, I am 18 years old, NO, that is not very old, NO I don't consider myself a beginner, I started keeping reptiles at 6 years of age, so I have 12 years of experience dealing with reptiles...at the age of 10, I bought my first snake(a grass-snake O. aestivus) since then I have kept many kinds of snakes...at the moment I take care for 33 snakes...

I have never bred any snake(hope to breed my snowcorns this year) but have bred several lizards...I didn't breed snakes, because I didn't have adult pairs, nowadays, I do have a few adult pairs. Next year I will be expecting to breed a lot of species

Maybe my reaction seems a bit strange, but I really feel attacked when people are talking about young snake keepers whithout any knowledge...not every young person is acting like that....and in my 12 years of experience I have met a lot of people, also 40+ , I can't say that they all were experienced and knowledged...although they were older than me.

I think you definately owe Egg and Joe an apologize....you were the one who started this verbal war....

just my 2 cents....

regards,

Robin Heinen, sub-adult snake-keeper

 

[CAV]

Experience is not measured in time, but in the situations you deal with. If I kept 10,000 corns over a period of 45 years, and had no problems with anything, then how am I more experienced than the kid who has been keeping 10 corns for 5 years but has had to deal with things like cronic regurge, mouthrot, bacterial and viral infections, and corns with mites/tics/parasites? I think the kid with all the problems has more experience simply because he's had to deal with more.

Egg,

I'm going to have to stick a fork in your argument…...

If someone has kept 10,000 snakes over 45 years, without any problems, I for one am going to say their husbandry practices are flawless and well beyond my capacity to offer them "a better mousetrap".

Dealing with strange husbandry problems and weird conditions DO NOT in any way equate to "experience". If that were the case, reptile_addict would be the 2005 Herp Hobbyist of the Year. Problems tend to indicate……..well, problems. The process of learning from your issues, making adjustments, and developing solutions are the activities that build up your husbandry toolbox. It is a process that takes more than one shot to master.

Just my .02, but you're starting to appear a little too "overzealous" as you continue to charge this particular windmill.

 

[E. g. guttata]

Dealing with strange husbandry problems and weird conditions DO NOT in any way equate to "experience". If that were the case, reptile_addict would be the 2005 Herp Hobbyist of the Year. Problems tend to indicate……..well, problems. The process of learning from your issues, making adjustments, and developing solutions are the activities that build up your husbandry toolbox. It is a process that takes more than one shot to master.

There is a difference between dealing with problems and just being a moron. Dealing with the problems indicates that you learn from your mistakes. If you repeat your mistakes repeatedly and lose all your snakes because of it, then that is just plain stupidity. Never having to deal with problems is just as cripling as continuing the same mistakes that make you stupid. The kid who has all those problems (assuming of course that he takes care of them and makes sure that they are pretty much gone for good) is more knowledgable about that subject then the person who never has those problems in the first place. It's kinda like saying that you would be a better teacher on shooting a gun than I would be. You have practice and I don't.

I think you definately owe Egg and Joe an apologize....you were the one who started this verbal war....

Seeing Vinny's line of appologies, I really could care less if he gives me one or not. there's a difference between offering an appology and realy trying to appologize. He reallly doesn't try to appologize.

 

[CAV]

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying

If you repeat your mistakes repeatedly and lose all your snakes because of it, then that is just plain stupidity. Never having to deal with problems is just as cripling as continuing the same mistakes that make you stupid.

So in your opinion never having any problems isn't an indicator that your practices are sound? What does it mean when you've only done something once and therefore have no idea what's was fixed and what wasn't since the last time?

What are you doing differently this year to ensure that last year's problems don't reappear? You're going to breed that same pair again I assume? What if those problems are genetically related? By your own argument, if the problems are repeated, you must not have learned anything and therefore didn't really "deal" with the problem. It's kind of like saying you're a great marksmanship instructor in spite of the fact that you've only pulled the trigger once.

 

[Vinman]

Thank you Cav, vinman

 

[E. g. guttata]

So in your opinion never having any problems isn't an indicator that your practices are sound? What does it mean when you've only done something once and therefore have no idea what's was fixed and what wasn't since the last time?

What are you doing differently this year to ensure that last year's problems don't reappear? You're going to breed that same pair again I assume? What if those problems are genetically related? By your own argument, if the problems are repeated, you must not have learned anything and therefore didn't really "deal" with the problem. It's kind of like saying you're a great marksmanship instructor in spite of the fact that you've only pulled the trigger once.

Not having any problems just means you have never had to really deal with them and your info can and most likely will bewrong and/or incomplete. There are many things that sound good on paper, but once put into practice can be really bad ideas.

As far as the genetics issue goes, if these are genetically related and they appear in this clutch again, I'll stop breeding the pair. That simple. My issue is that Vinny assumes that just because he is older than Joe and I, neither of us know what we are talking about. As far as his advice for incubation temp goes, had I not already been practicing using that kind of temp, then I would be taking his advice, simply because he has had better success with that temp than others, implying that he has tried other temps.

 

[CAV]

Just to be clear, I'm not supporting either side in this argument.

Not having any problems just means you have never had to really deal with them and your info can and most likely will bewrong and/or incomplete.

It could also mean that one took the necessary steps to avoid a problem before it became a problem. America's astronauts walked on the moon on their first try. Using your logic, they should be considered unknowledgeable failures because they succeeded without incident.

 

[E. g. guttata]

It could also mean that one took the necessary steps to avoid a problem before it became a problem. America's astronauts walked on the moon on their first try. Using your logic, they should be considered unknowledgeable failures because they succeeded without incident.

According to my logic the Appolo program AS A WHOLE is perfectly fine. They learned from mistakes, corrected their mistakes, landed on the moon successfully several times, and even had a hiccup durring a mission to the moon (Appolo 13), in which they worked to make sure that problem never occured again. According to my argument, you would not be able to just take the one successful mission as the guideline. The argument is for a collection as a whole, not just one success in there. I have not had any problems with my first corns, so according to this argument that you just presented, that means I was an expert when I started because I took the neccessary steps in making sure that those problems never arose. Yet here I am, debating my position with you, still learning on how to improve my husbandry. I am by no means an expert, but I do know what to do whenever I am faced with the problems that are most common, and I also know what to expect with a couple of problems that are uncommon. So now I'm an expert because I have had no problems with corns my first try, according to you .