Help...Pueblan? or not?

[KatieL]

Hey guys,

Okay, just when I thought I had seen it all at work, a lady came in today and DROPPED OFF a snake for me personally - without my knowledge or consent. Blehhhhh.

Anyway, I'm still not exactly sure what kind of snake this is. My original guess was Pueblan Milk. I know a tiny little bit about them since I was researching them a bit before I decided to get Trogdor, and after a lot of research online tonight, I'm still leaning in that direction.

Sooooo, long story short (or not...) I was wondering if anyone who has more experience with milks (and/or kings?) can give me a better idea if this is, or is not pueblan? I took some pics for your viewing enjoyment

P.S. I realize this is not a "stunning" specimen, she has the whole melanistic wash thing going on...

P.P.S. Apparently this snake was captured outside the lady's yard, and they had been trying to capture it for about 4 months after having seen it in their basement. Pobre chilly snake...

Dorsal Shot

Ventral Shot
This is what makes me hold my pueblan guess.
(and please excuse the weird cage I brought her home from work in)

Head Shot

Profile Shot

Thanks for your time everyone!

Katie

 

[mbdorfer]

Katie, that snake has all the characteristics of a Pueblan. Where does this woman live? Quick overview of Pueblan Milks, Ventral: approx half the red bands encircle the body, Black and "white" bands encircle body. Snout: black, the first "white" band should be wider than they are at mid body. No red bands on tail. I can't see in the pics, but there should be a kind of a light "U" shaped pattern on the head. Hope this helped :cheers:

 

[KatieL]

Thanks Mike!

I had to go back and check the U-shaped head pattern thing. The yellow band right behind her eyes is crescent shaped on the side towards the snout, and parallel to her other bands on the side towards her body....is this what you meant?

And in terms of background info:
Four months ago this older couple spotted this snake in their basement and called my boss to see if it was a coral snake, which from their description he could tell it was obviously not. Well, they asked if they caught it could they bring it in, and he told them that we don't take non-native species, but that there was a chance that I might take it, but he'd have to check with me, so call first before they brought it in. I told Doug (my boss) that until Jeff and I buy a house, I had no more room for snakes. Well, 4 months later they drop it off for me with no call, or anything. Apparently they found it in their front yard, and this time it was so cold, it was slow enough for them to catch.

I guess its sort of good they brought it in, since the lows have been dipping into the 30's at night already, but I just was not prepared for this... I usually like to do a lot more research before aquiring a new critter.

Obviously this is someone's lost pet, and its too bad I don't even know what city she lives in to see if I could find the owner. *sigh* I guess maybe this is a sign that I should drop out of the running for hatchlings in the photo contest (as if I stood a chance against the likes of Susan anyway, hehe). Anyway, thanks for your help Mike!

 

[KatieL]

Oh yeah, and while I'm at it what in the world size mice should this girly be eating? Her head looks so tiny compared to Sienna's... but they are about the same girth...

 

[Taceas]

Its beautiful and quite a find especially in Michigan. :grin01:

My kingsnake is similar with the mouth/head thing. He's big enough to be eating hopper mice now, but he has quite a bit of trouble getting them down. Only thing I can think is I guess their mouths are just more adapted to eating reptilian prey that doesn't have much of a shoulder or hip.

She looks big enough for a small adult mouse at least. Maybe once you get one into her, you can gauge if a change needs to be made as far as size goes.

Hopefully it has a good home with you. =D

 

[danvega]

Milksnakes' skin are not as elastic as cornsnakes, especially around the head. So if you are able to compare the milk to a corn of the same size, I would step down the size of mouse by one size to that of what a corn of that size is eating. The 'washed out' nature of the milksnake could be due to age (just guessing on that). Hope this helps.

 

[mbdorfer]

Thanks Mike!

I had to go back and check the U-shaped head pattern thing. The yellow band right behind her eyes is crescent shaped on the side towards the snout, and parallel to her other bands on the side towards her body....is this what you meant?

Actually the "U" shape is formed by some white mottling on the head. It may be difficult to see :wavey:

 

[MastersHaven]

Katie, that snake has all the characteristics of a Pueblan. Where does this woman live? Quick overview of Pueblan Milks, Ventral: approx half the red bands encircle the body, Black and "white" bands encircle body. Snout: black, the first "white" band should be wider than they are at mid body. No red bands on tail. I can't see in the pics, but there should be a kind of a light "U" shaped pattern on the head. Hope this helped :cheers:

that does look like a pueblan....
I just got two 05 hatchlings a few months ago....
mine are a bit different though... here, have a peek...
these are my babies -- weird huh?

 

[mbdorfer]

Those are cool, I've not seen these before. Are they anery's? Look like little Kraits!

 

[leerankin]

definately a pueblan,apricot pueblan at a guess

 

[magick-bears]

that does look like a pueblan....
I just got two 05 hatchlings a few months ago....
mine are a bit different though... here, have a peek...
these are my babies -- weird huh?

Those are some great looking Oreo Pueblans. Mind sharing who you got them from? I have been looking for some Oreos and Halloweens for the last year or so. Not having much luck though

~Jeff C.

 

[MastersHaven]

Those are cool, I've not seen these before. Are they anery's? Look like little Kraits!

Thanks.... I thought they were quite unique also...
I know VERY LITTLE about milksnakes so i really dont know a type or specific *trade name*. I purchased these as a gift for my son... But I have come to like them... they have such a sweet personality...

I've not seen any others like them... the rest of the clutch were pretty much normal except for a few that were reduced red....

they certianly are neat little specimens!

 

[mbdorfer]

Thanks.... I thought they were quite unique also...
I know VERY LITTLE about milksnakes so i really dont know a type or specific *trade name*. I purchased these as a gift for my son... But I have come to like them... they have such a sweet personality...

I've not seen any others like them... the rest of the clutch were pretty much normal except for a few that were reduced red....

they certianly are neat little specimens!

I did a little research, and like Jeff said they are called "Oreo" . Been outta touch with Milks, just have my Mex. The Halloween Pueblans are amazing, orange and black! Once again, they are very cool.

 

[KatieL]

Wow, this thread really took off!

LeeAnn, those two are just stunning! The variations that these snakes come in never cease to amaze me. They are just beautiful.

As an update on my little girl: Jeff just adores her, so we decided to officially keep her. I went out and bought all the stuff for her viv yesterday, and she is now quite at home. Its fairly obvious she hasn't been handled in quite some time, but hopefully she will calm down after her adjustment period and then with frequent handling...I hope!

The best news is that today she pooped! (Is it wierd that I was excited about that?) I guess I was just happy that it was normal, non-wormy, and quite large. Apparently she found something fairly large to eat...I'm guessing from the size of the poop that she is indeed able to handle an adult mouse. I'll probably start her with a hopper this week and see how she does with that just to be on the safe side. Her head still looks so tiny to me. It'll be interesting to see how much she weighs in at. She's a pretty stocky little girl.

Thanks for all your help everyone! Its great to know that I can get help with non-corn stuff around here too.

 

[mbdorfer]

Wow, this thread really took off!

LeeAnn, those two are just stunning! The variations that these snakes come in never cease to amaze me. They are just beautiful.

As an update on my little girl: Jeff just adores her, so we decided to officially keep her. I went out and bought all the stuff for her viv yesterday, and she is now quite at home. Its fairly obvious she hasn't been handled in quite some time, but hopefully she will calm down after her adjustment period and then with frequent handling...I hope!

The best news is that today she pooped! (Is it wierd that I was excited about that?) I guess I was just happy that it was normal, non-wormy, and quite large. Apparently she found something fairly large to eat...I'm guessing from the size of the poop that she is indeed able to handle an adult mouse. I'll probably start her with a hopper this week and see how she does with that just to be on the safe side. Her head still looks so tiny to me. It'll be interesting to see how much she weighs in at. She's a pretty stocky little girl.

Thanks for all your help everyone! Its great to know that I can get help with non-corn stuff around here too.

Pueblans do have a reputation for being squirmy and musky. But they usually grow out of it. I had one years ago that just hated being handled. My mexican on the other hand, was the same way as a hatchling but is now calm as can be. He doesn't even try to get away when I reach for him. I think he knows I'l be taking him outdoors, seems to enjoy being out in the sun :grin01:

 

[CAV]

Yeah annulatas rock!

Did I understand you to say that they found that snake outside in MI?? To the best of my knowledge, L. t. triangulum (Easterns) are the only species whose home range is anywhere near that region. :shrugs:

 

[mbdorfer]

Did I understand you to say that they found that snake outside in MI?? To the best of my knowledge, L. t. triangulum (Easterns) are the only species whose home range is anywhere near that region. :shrugs:

Yeah, I think she's assuming it to be someone's escaped pet

 

[CAV]

I assumed as much, I was just wondering how it weathered the conditions for so long. Out of doors Michigan is a long way from Pueblanland. Lucky it didn't freeze to death! :eek1:

 

[mbdorfer]

I assumed as much, I was just wondering how it weathered the conditions for so long. Out of doors Michigan is a long way from Pueblanland. Lucky it didn't freeze to death! :eek1:

Good point, didn't even consider what the weater must be like up there :grin01:
:-offtopic If you don't change that avatar soon, I may be adding another species to my want list! Awesome hoggie :cheers:

 

[KatieL]

*laughing* Cav, I definitely did not think that this was a species native to Michigan. We certainly have our share of Eastern Milks, but as you can see from the picture this little girly is a far cry from those.

Mike is right, I was guessing this was someone's escaped pet. The older couple who found her in their yard had spotted her in their basement a few times (but could not catch her) before finding her in their front yard. She must have snuck outside for some early morning sunshine.

As far as temperatures around here have been going, highs are fluctuating anywhere between 50 and 75 day to day throughout the week, with lows generally hanging in the 40's at night, with one or two nights dropping down into the 30's. If she had decided to stay outside she probably wouldn't have lasted much longer for sure. However she's got all the warmth she could want now.

I'm still hoping she'll "outgrow" her squirmyness, at least she's not a musker.

And Mike, thats a beautiful snake...much nicer coloration than mine has! *hints of jealousy*