-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Here we go again!
- Thread starter steve roylance
- Start date
steve roylance
New member
BSLMichael
Below Sea Level Reptiles
Laugh. Out. Loud. Animal extremists are funny.
Sindrik8x
New member
I'd have to say, some of the snakes I agree on just because the immaturity of owners who do not know what they are getting into. For instance anacondas and retic pythons with their massive size can be extremely dangerous under the wrong hands and ownership. A lot of these get released on public grounds and are left to the wild where they can endanger innocent persons. It's that select little crowd that ruins it and causes all these issues to get brought up in the first place.
I think a much better idea would be to have people who want to own such snakes take a test and obtain some sort of trade license. That way experienced owners who DO know what they are doing can still enjoy their hobby based on the time they have put in and all they have learned and devoted to what truly is a science.
The fact that boas are on the list is absurd. I can't even believe that is in the proposal. It is obvious that the person/persons/group that wrote this does not have any experience in herping, not understand the practice of such. Under the wrong hands they can they may not be the best snake to keep or possess, but really outside of ball pythons and cornsnakes they are the next line in aggressiveness to me.
Just my two cents. Not trying to play devil's advocate, just speaking out loud.
I think a much better idea would be to have people who want to own such snakes take a test and obtain some sort of trade license. That way experienced owners who DO know what they are doing can still enjoy their hobby based on the time they have put in and all they have learned and devoted to what truly is a science.
The fact that boas are on the list is absurd. I can't even believe that is in the proposal. It is obvious that the person/persons/group that wrote this does not have any experience in herping, not understand the practice of such. Under the wrong hands they can they may not be the best snake to keep or possess, but really outside of ball pythons and cornsnakes they are the next line in aggressiveness to me.
Just my two cents. Not trying to play devil's advocate, just speaking out loud.
Tavia
Elemental Exotics
I agree on more controls on the big ones, like retics and burms as well, but they need to be well written and thought out by people with lots of experience on the whole scope of the issue and by people with less axes to grind. And whoever is in charge of overseeing it also needs to understand and be reasonable about the fact that someone somewhere will not follow them and something bad will happen at some point but that that is no reason to punish the people doing everything right.
That's an issue that large sections of this country seems to have problems understanding about anything, not just exotic pets. A law or rule does not and never has, prevented all from committing whatever the law is against, it only gives some authority the legal right to punish someone after they've committed the offense.
And I love (sarcasm) the way these two faced "animal rights" activists argue! People shouldn't be allowed to own them because very few shelters or rescues are able to deal with them, so people often dump them when they grow too large or the person is overwhelmed by them for whatever reason.
So it makes perfect sense to ban the sale of them, rendering them without monetary value, and ban the taking of them across state lines, so the responsible person who owns one but has been ordered to move to another state for their job (or any other reason) is now forced to either try and give it away for free, generally to a very small pool of people interested in taking it who happen to live near by, and most of those interested in a free, big, scary macho snake are the very type of people who should not own one. Or they can break the law and take it with them or break the law and dump it, because remember that little detail about there not generally being any shelters that will take it?? Such a brilliant solution! That will fix all problems for sure! Very logical concept!
That's an issue that large sections of this country seems to have problems understanding about anything, not just exotic pets. A law or rule does not and never has, prevented all from committing whatever the law is against, it only gives some authority the legal right to punish someone after they've committed the offense.
And I love (sarcasm) the way these two faced "animal rights" activists argue! People shouldn't be allowed to own them because very few shelters or rescues are able to deal with them, so people often dump them when they grow too large or the person is overwhelmed by them for whatever reason.
So it makes perfect sense to ban the sale of them, rendering them without monetary value, and ban the taking of them across state lines, so the responsible person who owns one but has been ordered to move to another state for their job (or any other reason) is now forced to either try and give it away for free, generally to a very small pool of people interested in taking it who happen to live near by, and most of those interested in a free, big, scary macho snake are the very type of people who should not own one. Or they can break the law and take it with them or break the law and dump it, because remember that little detail about there not generally being any shelters that will take it?? Such a brilliant solution! That will fix all problems for sure! Very logical concept!
Sindrik8x
New member
Not going to chime in much more as I got my two cents in, but I had to say that your response is perfectly stated Tavia. Too many chefs in the kitchen (some don't know how to even cook), plus oversight in the incorrect places and implemented the wrong way. Not to mention illogical arguments getting substantial backing due to unknowledgeable persons in power...
Do any of you attend open to the public legality type board meetings or anything on a regular basis? I am sure this group has some representation in that regard, yes?
Do any of you attend open to the public legality type board meetings or anything on a regular basis? I am sure this group has some representation in that regard, yes?
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
That is exactly the problem we had in Florida when they made it illegal to buy, sell, trade, give away, or own (unless grandfathered in) red eared slider turtles. That species is a real problem in a lot of the world because it does so well in a variety of climates, making it very invasive. They have already become naturalized in most of Florida, mainly because of people turning them loose, as far as I know. While nobody is scared of them, they do compete with native animals, and eat native plants and animals, too.
The problem is that local herp societies previously took in unwanted turtles and found them new homes. And if the state had decided to make it illegal to SELL them, but not to give them away, then no new ones would become pets, and the unwanted ones would eventually find homes. The problem would solve itself, in time. But in its great wisdom, the state took away our ability to legally find them new homes. When I asked the state fish and game person what we were supposed to advise people to do with them, they said they hoped that the person would just keep it, send it out of state, or give it to the state for euthanasia, since it is not legal to give it away or release it. So I told them those words, and most said they would go ahead and release it, just making sure nobody was watching.
And that is how government wisdom in law making usually works, especially if it involves bans on ANYTHING. So be careful what you wish for if you want the government to regulate anything more than it is already regulating it. And don't count on them to either involve people with any real knowledge of the subject, or to listen to them if they do consult them. A real shame, but that is how the system works. The feds are usually worse than the states because they have more money, more power, and because the ability of a few individuals to affect the outcome is often less than in a particular state - unless you are part of a group with a LOT of money to buy influence, that is.
The problem is that local herp societies previously took in unwanted turtles and found them new homes. And if the state had decided to make it illegal to SELL them, but not to give them away, then no new ones would become pets, and the unwanted ones would eventually find homes. The problem would solve itself, in time. But in its great wisdom, the state took away our ability to legally find them new homes. When I asked the state fish and game person what we were supposed to advise people to do with them, they said they hoped that the person would just keep it, send it out of state, or give it to the state for euthanasia, since it is not legal to give it away or release it. So I told them those words, and most said they would go ahead and release it, just making sure nobody was watching.
And that is how government wisdom in law making usually works, especially if it involves bans on ANYTHING. So be careful what you wish for if you want the government to regulate anything more than it is already regulating it. And don't count on them to either involve people with any real knowledge of the subject, or to listen to them if they do consult them. A real shame, but that is how the system works. The feds are usually worse than the states because they have more money, more power, and because the ability of a few individuals to affect the outcome is often less than in a particular state - unless you are part of a group with a LOT of money to buy influence, that is.
Tavia
Elemental Exotics
I guess Idaho just adopted the same stupid law on RES here in 2012, which almost no one seems to be paying any attention to. I'd looked into owning them a few years ago and there were no local laws on them back then, wouldn't have known about it now except that a person on a local FB pet and supply group I'm in linked the new law, remarking that all the people rehoming theirs were breaking the law and they needed to read that.
I don't imagine it will be obeyed very well either, unless Fish and Game decides to spend more time and effort enforcing it than I can presently see them wishing to.
Most of the laws on exotics here in Idaho are quite willfully ignored by Fish and Game, (and nearly all the other authorities) unless they catch someone doing something they care about more and wish to really throw the book at someone.
This law was uncharacteristically clear and defined, most are (I feel) purposefully left very vague, so that they have the option of interpreting it however they like.
I don't imagine it will be obeyed very well either, unless Fish and Game decides to spend more time and effort enforcing it than I can presently see them wishing to.
Most of the laws on exotics here in Idaho are quite willfully ignored by Fish and Game, (and nearly all the other authorities) unless they catch someone doing something they care about more and wish to really throw the book at someone.
This law was uncharacteristically clear and defined, most are (I feel) purposefully left very vague, so that they have the option of interpreting it however they like.