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Humidity: too high or too low?

SSSara

Gotta love em!
Hey everyone! I havent been on the forum in a while because the baby cornsnake i had unfortunately died... i was, of course, very disappointed, but i dont feel too bad because all the other snakes from the same litter also died under the care of more experienced snake handlers. Now, I am taking care of a full grown, gorgeous creamcicle cornsnake from the Living Lab at my school for the summer. We had no problems with her in the Lab, but now, a couple of problems have arisen that i need some help with!

The day I brought her home, just over a week ago, she had started to shed, so I knew she wouldn't want to eat, so I didnt try. But, the shed was lasting a long time, and was not going very well. It was very dry, and wouldnt come easily off her, despite keeping the tank at a very good humidity. The temps in the tank are around 90°, and she has a rather large water bowl. I also spray the tank several times a day. At first, I decided to just let the shed run its course, but after a few days with no change, I spent almost an hour carefully removing all the dead skin I could. There is still a section about 3 inches long near her head that wont come off. I would assume that the tank is still not humid enough, but heres the kicker - she has started to wheeze a little bit... I've researched that this could mean the tank is a little TOO humid... so whats the deal??

Could it be the stress of coming to a new home, or is something wrong with my snake?? (if gender possibly has anything to do with it, I call the snake a "she" but i really dont know what it is). Any advice would be appreciated!
-Sara
 
Did the snake shed??? And how old is a full grown snake?? The shed cycle can last a week or so, this varys with the snake and age of it. What are the humidity levels? do you have a hydrometer? It should read around 40-50% during the shed cycle. The temps are high too. they should be about 70-75 degrees on the coolside and 80-85 degrees on the warm side. Are you using a thermometer with a probe to read them. ??
If the snake did shed leaving some left on, you need to wet a towel and ring out a bit and while holding the snake let it crawl through the towel to help loosen the skin. And gentle help rub it off too.
The "wheezing" could be from a repository infection from a "too damp" of a Viv. The mist several time a day. Sounds like you need to get the proper equipment to read the temps and humidity.
 
*sighs* why do I always get people telling me different temps for cornsnakes?? some tell me between 80-85 on warm side, and others (as well the majority of my own research) say it has to be between 90-95... how do i know who is right?? and no, i dont have a hydrometer, we don't use one in the Living Lab, and all our snakes do perfectly fine...but I guess I'll get one so I can be sure. the snake is about 3 or four years old, I don't know for sure, we got it last year and it hasn't gotten any bigger since. As far as helping the shed with a wet towel, I already said I spent almost an hour doing this. The shed near her head just wont come off!
I'm starting to think I'm just a failure with snakes... has anyone had any similar experiences that can maybe give me some insight and experienced advice??
 
First of all, I not sure it the snake has shedded. Like I side it usually take a week or so. But if it is a piece of skin you could also make a humidity hide.

A hydrometer is a gauged (like a thermometer) that reads the humidity levels. You should have one because I think your mistting too much.

As far as the different temps goes..... I took the advice from here.......


Husbandry and such
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28341
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17224
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sh...?p=133428#post6
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28343

Diseases and health
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
http://www.reptilia.org/News/salmonella.htm
http://biology.kenyon.edu/slonc/bio...rypto.htm#trans
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sh...ighlight=nix*
http://coloherp.org/cb-news/Vol-28/...SnakeMites.html
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sh...ight=jello+butt

Free Herp Software
http://www.serpwidgets.com/Apps/apps.html
http://www.proherp.com/
http://www.cornsnakes.nl/
http://home.comcast.net/~spencer62/cornprog.html

Setup
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/t.../bltanksize.htm
http://www.mgreptiles.com/VIROSAN.html
http://www.anapsid.org/blacklight.html
http://arbreptiles.com/cages/flexwire.shtml
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19168

Miscellaneous
http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/
http://www.moreptiles.com/cornsnake-lifecycle.htm

Cohabitation
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17308
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31192

On-line frozen mice suppliers
http://www.themousefactory.com/
http://cajunmice.com/
http://www.rodentpro.com/index.asp
http://www.bigcheeserodents.com/htt...m/htm/mice.html
http://peticebox.com/
http://www.exotic-pets.co.uk/frozen-mice.html for the UK
 
90 - 95 temps are more for boids, eg pythons and boas, depending on the species.

Corns do better with warm side temps of 80 - 85, and most caresheets will tell you this.

Corns also do better with a moderate humidity of 40 - 50%. The wheezing could be due to the fact you are misting a few times a day. I will only mist once maybe every 2 - 3 days during the shed cycle, but a very light mist and i have no shed problems whatsoever.

I suggest cleaning out the snakes tank and starting off whith a nice dry environment. Try getting any left shed off (especially at the tail) by running a damp paper towl down the snakes body as you handle it, even pick it off gently if you can.
 
Sorry i didn't realise lennycorn had already given the paper towel advice.

Btw, shed cycles last about 10 days. Early signs are a clouding belly, then eventually very clouded eyes. Once this has cleared up, the snake will shed 3 - 4 days aftwerwards.

Its suggested that you leave the snake alone during this period to reduce stress.
 
So what are you using to read you temps with??????????

I tried to answer your questions, can you try to answer mine. :wavey:
 
I don't really know what you meant by a probe thermometre... I guess that means I'm not using one lol they are just normal looking thermometers.... one on the warm side and one on the cool. I placed them near the bottom of the tank, since that is where she spends most of her time. The temp on the warm side ranges from 88-92, and the cooler side from 80-84. I'll try turning it down, see if that makes a difference.

I know about shed cycles. when I said she started to shed, I didn't mean she had just gone into the blue phase, I meant she had physically started to lose the shed. sorry, should have been more clear on this. At that point, it had been about 5 days since she had goen into the blue phase. A few days after the shed had physically started to come off, it was still very dry and not coming off at all, but from the colour and texture I knew that it was dead and had to come off. In all my experiences with this snake, I have never seen her have a bad shed, which I guess is why I'm worried. There is no shed left on her tail or the majority of her body - as I said, I spent a lot off time making sure it all came off using the damp towl trick. She's a very well-tempermented snake, and didn't mind me doing this at all. In fact, she sat quite still as I did it. But I tried for a long time to get the skin near her head (starts about 1/2 inch down the body from her head, and is about 3 inches long) and she really struggled with me when I tried. I'll stop misting so much too, until I can get a hydrometer. Can you tell me what the difference is between the thermometers I use and a probe thermometer? is it really important to have one? As I said before, I'm doing everything the same as we did in the Living Lab, and we didnt have any problems there. Any chances this is just caused by the stress of moving? its been over a week since I brought her home...
 
Can you tell me what the difference is between the thermometers I use and a probe thermometer? is it really important to have one? As I said before, I'm doing everything the same as we did in the Living Lab, and we didnt have any problems there. Any chances this is just caused by the stress of moving? its been over a week since I brought her home...

A thermometer with a probe is just a indoor/outdoor thermometer that reads the outdoor temps (using probe place outside) with the thermometer inside of "house".
The idea is to place the probe in the substrate above the uth, this will give you the warmest temps that the snake could touch.

You can this type almost anywhere. Pet store, Wal-mart, Home Depot etc.etc.

You move the snake to one building to another so....the building temps and humidity levels are probability different. This and the season has change and like you said stress from the move. So.......

I would treat it as a new snake, don't handle the snake for four to ten day to get it accustom to the new environment and lower the temps to the proper levels and get the humidity right. Tula had a good idea too change the substrate too, it might be too damp, concedering the wheezing came about.
Are you sure about that??? Because that an issue that has to be deal with too, by raising the temps but I don't want to go too fast here...
 
if thats all a probe thermometer is, I think I'm fine with what I'm using now. The thermometers are small and dont get in her way, so I dont think having a unit outside the tank will make much of a difference. thanks for clearing that up.

I'll change the substrate as soon as I get a chance... I'm in the middle of final exams so I'm really busy, but they will be all over on Monday so by then I will definitly have that done. same with the hydrometer - as soon as i have a minute to go out, I'll look for one. Any popular places that would likely have an inexpensive one? (student = no money!!)

In foresight, if none of these things fix the wheezing problem, is there anything else that could be causing this? possibly any serious respiratory or other problems that I should get checked out by a vet? because if that could be what this is, I would rather get her checked out earlier than later.
 
If you do all this and the snake is still wheezing then maybe it has an RI due to dusty or inapropriate substrate. What are you using?

I would also suggest switching whatever substrate your using to newspaper or papertowels for now just incase its a RI.
 
I'm using a fine pure aspen mulch. It's what we have always used for any reptiles in the Living Lab, to make sure no cedar gets in the mix since that will irritate them. It isnt "dusty" as you called it, I find it to work very nicely at absorbing fecal matter and such. But I will take your advice and use paper towel for a while.
 
I use aspen too, and i have no complaints.

But if you suspect an RI its always a good idea to change to newspaper, keep the humidity low and raise the temperatures. I have had RI problems with my boa, but never any of my corns, and doing what i described there cleared my girl right up in a few weeks :)

Look out for mucas forming around the mouth and nose, you will know for sure if your snake has an RI. My girl never had any discharge but she was extremely lethargic which is another tell tale sign of respratory problems.
 
Did you ever get the rest of the old skin off? If not, this is what I would do. Put a hand towel or wash cloth in a plastic container big enough to hold the snake. I use the feeding box. Put baby bath temperature water in the box until the towel is thoroughly soaked. Check the temp with the inside of your wrist. It should feel neither warm nor cold. Put the snake in for 30-45 minutes. This will allow the dry skin to absorb moisture and make it easier to come off. After that, let the snake crawl through the damp towel. Works for me.

About the thermometer, if you are using one of those stick on kind, I'd ditch it and get the probe thermometer. You want the probe measuring the temp of the glass directly above the UTH. This is the hottest spot the snake can come into contact with and you want to make sure it isn't burning itself.

I'd suggest you do your research somewhere else as well. You have been getting incorrect information. Corns prefer a warm side temp of 80-85.
 
SSSara said:
if thats all a probe thermometer is, I think I'm fine with what I'm using now.

Any popular places that would likely have an inexpensive one? (student = no money!!)

In foresight, if none of these things fix the wheezing problem, is there anything else that could be causing this?

I believe that a thermometer with a probe will be better, that and hydrometers are not expensive. And as Becky said, place probe on the glass above the uth.

The wheezing could also be from the shed. Dry skin in the snake nose. :shrugs: Hard to tell. You have to wait until someone with more experience chimes in

Keep us posted. :wavey:
 
alright, I'll try it your way and look into a probe thermometer. you mentioned placing it right above the "UTH"... forgive my ignorance of snake lingo, but what exactly is that? and the hydrometer... any specific place that sould be set up?

I've been checking on her often, and I havent seen any signs of mucas that Tula mentioned. I guess thats a good sign. I have slowly been picking away at the left over skin, and its coming off slowly but surely... I think I might try Becky's idea tomorrow (its getting pretty late here).

Question... I raised the lamp I was using so that it isn't heating the tank as much. The thermometer is reading just above 85 on the warm side, but the thing is, she's climbed up as high on her branches as she can get. I'm assuming this is to get closer to the heat. She never did this before. I'm not trying to question your experience, because I trust people who have worked with cornsnakes more than I trust a random wesite, but doesnt this seem a little odd if the tank is now around the right temps? maybe she has just become used to warmer weather... :shrugs: I'll keep these temps for now anyways, and keep an eye out for any more oddities.
 
UTH = under tank heater, a heat mat or heat tape etc.

Personally i prefer the uth with thermostat and probe system as i find the temps remain constant and i feel they are safer for the snakes.
 
Sara,
Are you using a Under Tank Heater or a Heat lamp????
Heat lamps or the use of a lamp for heat is not the ideal situation for Corn snakes. It might work for other snakes but not really for corns snakes.

I not sure why the snake is now climbing. Could be be variable of things, new home, yes, seeking only heat source, searching for a mate etc etc.
It's hard to tell with a set-up that, I think, need some adjustment.

For the proper set-up I think you need a thermometer with a probe, hydrometer, and a thermostat (best way but expensive) or rheostat connected to the UTH.

"I'm not trying to question your experience, because I trust people who have worked with cornsnakes more than I trust a random website"


And to be honest with you .......I don't know "Jack" compared to most of the folks here. But when it come to corn snakes this is not a random site .... this is the only site to come too.

The information you been receiving has been "off" a bit. So please read over the links I added.
Husbandry and such
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28341
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17224
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sh...?p=133428#post6
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28343

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

http://www.serpwidgets.com/Apps/apps.html

http://www.mgreptiles.com/VIROSAN.html

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19168

http://www.moreptiles.com/cornsnake-lifecycle.htm
 
Thanx for the research, Lennycorn. I appreciate it.

I was using a heating lamp, one of those ExoTerra infared Heat Glo bulbs, but that was just temporary until I got a heating pad, which I put into place today. I also finally got the humidity reader, and everything seems to be at the right levels. I will monitor them though, to make sure they stay that way. I think I have only one last question... where exactly should the hydrometer be placed? At the moment, I have it in a pretty central place, but maybe it should be closer to the water bowl since that will likely the most humid area?

The rest of the shed is finally starting to come off a little bit easier... I'm going to do the damp towel treatment again tonight to hopefully remove the rest. But I havent noticed any wheezing for some time now, maybe it was just some skin like Lennycorn suggested. Good to know she doesnt have any serious problems! :)
 
I'm glad to hear that the wheezing has stop. Hopefully if was dry skin.
The hydrometer, can be place in the center but toward the front or back or Viv will be fine.
My I also suggest getting Kathy Love new book. It's a must have when it come to corns. http://www.cornutopia.com/

Good luck and keep us posted
Sent a picture if can too. :cheers:
 
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