(hypo) motley ghosts 2004's

[mvervest]

I bought them as mentioned on the title. Why hypo when a ghost is already hypo ? Don't know , maybe because they are a little lighter then the normal ghosts , doesn't matter anyway . :wavey:

 

[Llewella]

Wow!!! This is the first time I like a motley very much!!! They are fantastic!!!

 

[Jynx]

I agree! Those are unlike any other motley I ever seen. Its like a normal motley pattern for the first 1/4... then almost completely reverses. Did you produce them? Those truly are gems. I'm sure you plan on breeding them right? Make sure you post updates then!

 

[CornCrazy]

Those are absolutely beautiful! I'll be looking for babies from them when they are old enough!

Edit: Oops! Didn't notice you were located in Belgium! Guess I won't be looking for babies after all!

 

[bitsy]

Hypo is indeed integral to the Ghost morph, so if that's what they are then there's no reason to emphasise the "Hypo".

There's a real controversy about these "Hypo Motley Ghosts" and "Super Hypo Motley Ghosts" in the UK. They're only available in Europe so far which means to my mind that they're unlikely to be derived from any of the "newer" forms of Hypo or Anery (one theory).

The third-hand rumour is that they're actually hybrids and not pure Corns at all. Unfortunately, the breeder refuses to discuss anything to do with his Corns so we can't verify. There are various feelers out to see if we can get the parent bloodline/morph info via a friend of a friend of the breeder, but no joy so far. For someone who hates having his business discussed on the internet, he's doing a good PR job by keeping quiet on the subject.

I have one myself and she's a stunner, but there's no way I'm going to be breeding from her unless I know for sure what her offspring will be. I asked my shop to go back to the breeder, but all they found out was "Hypo Motley Ghosts are genetically different to Motley Ghosts". They didn't say how though, which makes me very wary.

My view is that if they were pure Corn, the breeder would be falling over himself to disprove the hybrid rumour. But it's been a question for over a year now and still nothing.

I know what I believe (unfortunately).

Beautiful animals though.

 

[Snakexperience]

Isn't it possible that it is some kind of vanishing-morph, maybe the term 'hypo' is, in this case, only a matter of speach?

Anyway i don't think they're hybrids and they're very nice snakes!

Arjan

 

[robin h]

Nice snakes Marc

it's good to see there are some breeders in the benelux with nice morphs
You have very nice ghost motleys, strange abbarant pattern

I bought a Ghost motley striped this year with the same greyish look, very attrective, my animal is from Sven, I bet you'll know him

regards,

Robin Heinen

 

[princess]

OOOH, you're only 800kms away from me!!!

Hmmmm -might need to ad a few of those to the projects too!
They're really lovely- Do you have photos of the parents and grandparents? Is it a trait that's just 'popped up' out of nowhere or is it a line bred variety like candycane is to amel?

They are really stunning. Well done! :cheers:

 

[bitsy]

Do you have photos of the parents and grandparents? Is it a trait that's just 'popped up' out of nowhere or is it a line bred variety like candycane is to amel?

That would be really good to know. If one breeder can produce these from pure Corn lines, then so can others. It would go a long way to restoring my faith in mine.

 

[princess]

I'm quite a new comer to breeding but I can tell you what the parents of most of my purchased snakes were phenotype) and up to 3 generations here and there. I hope to give a pedigree with each of my snakes in the future whenever I sell one. (this is possible when you produce on a small scale like me! :grin01: )

I think if the breeder has nothing to hide then showing what the parents and grandparents look like is not a problem but I wasn't implying anything when I asked...I just think it's interesting to see them from generation to generation.

 

[ecreipeoj]

What is going on with the CUBES?

Why hypo when a ghost is already hypo ? Don't know , maybe because they are a little lighter then the normal ghosts , doesn't matter anyway . :wavey:

Very interesting Corns. They remind me of Cubes from Striped Lines, but these look like Cubes from Motley lines.

I do not have any definite “PROOF”, but I suspect that the “CUBES” are a third allele at the Motley Locus, so we could get. Motley/Motley, Motley/Striped, Motley/CUBED, Striped/Striped, and Striped/CUBED at this locus as well as CUBED/CUBED.

Trying to identify which are pure CUBED/CUBED has proven to be difficult, but I am getting some that are very attractive like Marc’s Corns are. They have practically no back ground or side pattern, with some very unusually shaped blotches, which contrast very nicely with the clean background color.

I think if the Cubes do prove to be a new morph down the line, instead of a poorly patterned Striped or Motley, they will get much more support, because some of them are extremely interesting and beautiful, as we can see from Marc’s photos. Many people who have produce the Cubes, just call them Motleys, for lack of anything better to call them.

I have attached a couple of photos of a Cubed when he was a hatchling and at one year of age. Imagine this snake, if it was a Ghost and we would have something similar to Marc’s snakes. I believe the “Hypo” Ghost Motley is coming from the Cubes very light clean background color. We all know that Motleys, and Stripes have a “Hypo” like effect, but some of the Cubes can have the appearance of a “Super Hypo” like effect. I have also seen Cubes with circular patterns referred to as Sunspots. I believe that the Cubes and Sunspots will get much more recognition and acceptance as time and PROOF goes on.

There could of course be other explanations other than the Cubes being a third allele, but there is some connection with Cubes from Motleys and Cubes from Stripes. I could very easily see that Marc’s snake is a Motley/Cubed and my snake is a Striped/Cubed. Can other people see this as a possibility?

 

[Roy Munson]

Whatever they are those are some extraordinary looking snakes, mvervest and Joe.

 

[cimckee]

Since I'm not a breeder and don't follow bloodlines and all that, this post confuses me slightly. I am posting this pic of my Albino Motley simply because it looks like it has the same patterns as those pic that have already been posted.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Since I'm not a breeder and don't follow bloodlines and all that, this post confuses me slightly. I am posting this pic of my Albino Motley simply because it looks like it has the same patterns as those pic that have already been posted.

I would say that your snake does resemble my Cubes and I would not call it a Motley at all. You have just proved my point. Many people who produce these call them Motleys. Yours look much more like it came from a Striped background.

Here are some more photos of Cubes. They are not the best photos, but I would not call them Motleys or Stripes, but some people do call them “Motleys“. They all have the extremely light, clean back grounds like Marc’s snakes have and simular patterns.

 

[ecreipeoj]

I have never thought about this combo before, but I just have to make Ice Cubes! The name alone makes it a worthwhile project and I think the genetic combo and the phenotype will we awesome!

 

[CornCrazy]

Beautiful cubes, Joe! Now I've got to get some updated pics of my cubes. I have an anery, a couple of ghosts, a couple of snows, and a couple of hypos. This is one of my favorite patterns!

Here are some old threads:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22659
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22668
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18174

That's all of them except for the ghosts. I'll get pics of them up soon (and some current ones of the others). The snows have lost almost all of their patterns...

 

[Menhir]

For sure, Joes point is genetically correct and an option that we should pay attantion to. I personally do think, that there is, especially between the already known Allels Motley and Stripe, a huge variation possible. Think of the range of Amels from Sunglow to CandyCane.

I'd like to see some reproducable ratios of Cubes, Motleys and Stripes in Mixed clutches - any suggestions? :santa:

 

[ecreipeoj]

For sure, Joes point is genetically correct and an option that we should pay attantion to. I personally do think, that there is, especially between the already known Allels Motley and Stripe, a huge variation possible. Think of the range of Amels from Sunglow to CandyCane.

This is one of the reasons that people have always thought these were “poor” quality Striped or Motleys. I think the Amel variation from Sunglow to Candy Cane is more like the Four Line Stripes to Pattern less Corns and the Motley pattern to complete dorsal striped Motleys and Zipper Motleys. The Cubes seem to be outside of this variation.

To begin with, and the biggest reason that I began to think about a third allele, is that Cubes can come from the Striped Line and the Motley Line. The Cubes from both lines look very similar and can not be “variation”. How can variation be the same from two different phenotypes?

I'd like to see some reproducable ratios of Cubes, Motleys and Stripes in Mixed clutches - any suggestions? :santa:

How to prove the Cubes as a third allele is a question that I do not have any definite answers too. Serp and I have been talking about the third allele for quite awhile. I think the biggest problem is that Cubes have been mixed in with the Stripes and Motleys for a very long time and are produced by quite a few people, that have for the most part, been calling them “Motleys”.

Since this is a new theory, which came about mainly due to last years discover that the Ultra and Amel genes are alleles which help to firm up that the Motley gene and Striped genes are alleles, there isn’t any clutch percentages to really look at. I did begin by 2005 breeding season with this theory in mind and can tell you the results of my clutches this year, but which phenotype is a Striped/Cubed and which is a Cubed/Cubed. I basically considered any Cubed that had some striping as a Striped/Cubed and the Cubed/Cubes to have no striping at all. Cubed/Cubed X Same 100% Cubed. Striped/Cubed X Same, some perfect Four Lined Stripes in the clutch and some Cubes and Cubes with some striping. Striped/Cubed X Cubed, no perfect Stripers.

The best result to me this year, was a breeding the a I did with a Striped/Cubed X Striped from a different line than my line that the Cubes came from. The results were approximately 50% perfect Stripes and 50% Striped/Cubes. The percentages when breeding Striped/Cubes X Same and Striped/Cubes X Striped seem to be in line with them being alleles, but the Motley gene was not in my “testing” this year.

I would love to hear ideas of how to further prove or disprove this theory. I have never produced any Cubes from my Motleys, so I assume them to be pure. I have never produce a Striped from my Motleys, but Don S’s Striped came from my Motleys that I sold him many years ago. The Striped gene can definitely “hide”, undetected in Motleys until the right pair is matched up. I do not believe this is the case with the Cubes, but this is only based upon Cubes that have some Motley characteristics and Cubes that have some Striped characteristics.

In 2006, I will be breeding Cubes to Normal patterned Corns and I guess I should breed some Cubes X Motleys and see happens. I will be keeping track of the ratio of Cubes in clutches more closely which will help to see if the percentages match the genetic possibility of three alleles at the Motley locus. When I consider the Striped and Cubes as being alleles, the percentages are correct.

 

[bitsy]

The Cube theory is very interesting. Looking at mine, where the Motley markings become saddles (midsection and towards tail), they're distinctly squarish to my eye. Unless I'm just seeing something where I want to...

 

[Joejr14]

Those are all some very nice hibirds you guys have!