• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

I'm a teacher trying to figure out this new pet snake

K

KPerron

New member
Hi Everyone!

I'm a 7th and 8th grade Science teacher and recently decided to get a cornsnake for our classroom pet. I bought it last week and am giving him some time to get used to his new home before bringing him to school.

I have a temperature regulation issue/question.

Here's my setup:
20 gallon tank (i know its a bit of over kill for a hatchling but its a long story of why i have a 20 gallon)
reptibark substrate (planning on switching to Aspen as soon as he finishes digesting his last meal- i feed him yesterday for the first time
one "hot spot" hide
one cool side hide
water bowl in the middle
lots of greenery to make the huge tank seem not as big for this little guy

the kit came with two overhead lamps but i didnt like using them (couldnt get a hot spot for the guy and it would get either too hot or too cold for ambient temp) and i purchased a UTH that said it was good for a 10-20 gallon tank.

Here's my problem: I have a temperature probe on the ground in the hot spot hide right over the UTH (on top of the substrate). It is reading 92 which is from all my research too hot...I tried building up the substrate over it but then the ambient temp in the tank was too low...it was about 70 on the warm side and 68 on the cool side.

How can i get a hot spot that isnt too hot and still keep the ambient temperature high in the tank. I read about getting a thermostat but worry that this will still mess us the overall temperature in the tank.

Any advice would be appreciated. I want to get this right so that my students can find out how interesting and not scary snakes can be.
 
A UTH isn't aimed to heating the ambient air in the tank. As far as my understanding, it is more to mimic the warming of Earth's surface such as you might find on a sunny day.

Before I go too far, is this animal planning on being in the classroom? If so, then temperatures of the classroom may be more important in the long run than what you have at your house.

That being said, I would set it so the hottest part of the tank the snake may come into contact with isn't warmer than 90F. 92F isn't terrible, but if you can drop it a couple of degrees, then you should.

Repti-bark is fine, IMO. Your corn may enjoy burrowing, and that can be hard on repti-bark, but not impossible.

The cool side, surface or air, shouldn't get below 70F, but then again, 68F isn't going to hurt your animal in my opinion. You're aiming to have a nice gradient in temperature. 92F-68F achieves that.

There has been some debate on this forum about the importance of ambient air temp vs surface temp. I feel both are important, but others will disagree.
 
A thermostat is highly recommended, a UTH without one is dangerous because you dont know how hot it will get. The snake won't realise and could suffer serious damage. I haven't had snakes long so I'm not sure what other advice I could offer.
 
Thanks! I just saw a nice thread about basking temps at 110F and now im even more confused. I know that I will have to figure out my temps again as soon as I move him to the classroom but I was hoping I could get it down at home and know what to try to make adjustments before I move him to the classroom. He was moving around a lot more before he ate yesterday so I wasnt too worried about him staying in any one spot (hot or cold) too long. Now that he ate he is hiding in his hot spot hid and i worry that its too hot for him.

If I move him to the classroom what would you recommend for ambient air temperature controls overnight I think I probably need to get a thermostat for that situation but the more accessories I add the more complicated it gets to figure out what to change when it isnt working.

Thanks again for your reply and information!
 
Thanks for the videos. I have been looking for videos to show my students what to expect. I prepped my children for watching our snake eat his first meal by showing them videos first.
 
I have thermometer with a probe that is in his hot spot hide. I also have one on the wall on the hot side and one on wall on the cool side. Overkill probably but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

What do most people use for ambient air temp regulation? Everything I read recommends a UTH heater for cornsnakes but if this doesnt help with ambient air temps how to I get them up? I'd hate to add a lamp because that would just make it even hotter in his hot spot.
 
For me, I wouldn't let the ambient air temp get below 68F or above 85F.

The surface temp for me could be as high as 92F, and no lower than 72F.

How you achieve your temperatures is up to you, but each approach has its pros and cons. An unregulated UTH can get super hot, and cause problems. I use a rheostat for some snakes, (aka table top dimmer switch from Lowes) and have adjusted the temp over time using an IR temp gun so that I achieve a safe range of temps.

A thermostat can do the trick too.

I also have used cheap ceramic tile from Lowes. I placed that over the glass over the UTH to help act as a spacer. This way even if my corn burrows down, he isn't getting the super hot temps.

You could use a heat lamp too if you wanted, but most people report humidity issues.

As far as temps go, think like a snake. It's basically a tube, and most of the animal is really close to the ground and in direct contact with the ground. If you have a UTH set so the animal can reach 90F temps, then if s/he is feeling cool, s/he can slither over and warm up from the UTH. When its feeling warm enough, it can slither back over to the cool side until he needs a boost of heat.

The colder the cool side, the more quickly s/he'll cool off, and the more often they'll trek back and forth.

On the other hand, if there isn't a place to cool off, and the snake wants to, then what?

For me the ambient air is important because the logic is that snakes can help regulate their temp from breathing. That long lung runs by organs and blood vessels and too cold of air may cool the snake, even if its sitting on a warm spot. I've also heard of snakes that felt* cold from too low of ambient air temps and burrowed down to an unregulated UTH only to sit there and burn themselves. They kept going deeper and deeper trying to get warmer and warmer and before long, they're sitting on 120F glass and slow roasting themselves.

*There is no way of actually knowing what the snake felt, but one can deduce from the behavior....


Did I complicate things further? :/
 
KPerron said:
Hi Everyone!

I'm a 7th and 8th grade Science teacher and recently decided to get a cornsnake for our classroom pet. I bought it last week and am giving him some time to get used to his new home before bringing him to school.

I have a temperature regulation issue/question.

Here's my setup:
20 gallon tank (i know its a bit of over kill for a hatchling but its a long story of why i have a 20 gallon)
reptibark substrate (planning on switching to Aspen as soon as he finishes digesting his last meal- i feed him yesterday for the first time
one "hot spot" hide
one cool side hide
water bowl in the middle
lots of greenery to make the huge tank seem not as big for this little guy

the kit came with two overhead lamps but i didnt like using them (couldnt get a hot spot for the guy and it would get either too hot or too cold for ambient temp) and i purchased a UTH that said it was good for a 10-20 gallon tank.

Here's my problem: I have a temperature probe on the ground in the hot spot hide right over the UTH (on top of the substrate). It is reading 92 which is from all my research too hot...I tried building up the substrate over it but then the ambient temp in the tank was too low...it was about 70 on the warm side and 68 on the cool side.

How can i get a hot spot that isnt too hot and still keep the ambient temperature high in the tank. I read about getting a thermostat but worry that this will still mess us the overall temperature in the tank.

Any advice would be appreciated. I want to get this right so that my students can find out how interesting and not scary snakes can be.
Click to expand...

with the UTH that is all the heat your snake will need. Do not worry about the heat source changing ambient air temperature. I would definitely suggest getting a thermostat for your UTH and get the temperature to the mid 80s, 92 is a little high. Everything should be fine from I understand after that, our house hovers around 68 and my corns hang out on the cold side for the most part.

Oh also the temperature should be arounds the mid 80's right on the glass over top of the UTH, cause your corn will burrow
 
I raise the ambient air temp by lowering the setting on my human air conditioner. (It is set to 80F during the day).

This is why I was concerned about the school temps. Some schools keep their human air conditioner set to like 65 because they know all of the kids will warm it up to something more comfortable.

My high school didn't have A/C so our sweaty bodies just stuck to those cheap plastic chairs they give students to sit in. Who knows what the air temp was then. :)
 
with the UTH that is all the heat your snake will need. Do not worry about the heat source changing ambient air temperature.

get the temperature to the mid 80s, 92 is a little high.

Oh also the temperature should be arounds the mid 80's right on the glass over top of the UTH, cause your corn will burrow
Click to expand...

yeah, what Mr. Lahey said, w/ emphasis added.
 
okay, so...I wasn't really worried about the 92F even though I wanted to get it a little lower because he was moving and climbing up some vines I had for him. He seemed to be regulating his temperature just fine. Now that he ate yesterday, he just wants to hide (which I understand it typical) but now that he is spending all his time there I'm stressing over it. I ordered a thermostat on amazon a little while ago and I'll just be the thermostat until it comes in. That's really no more difficult than waking up a couple times a night to check on him, something I've done with my kiddos for years :)

But now you all have raised another question for me...I wasnt too worried about ambient temperatures because my house is never cooler than 68F and never warmer than 75F with the UTH the hot side was getting about 84F an inch above the ground where the UTH is and the cool side was getting about 68 at the lowest.

When I get him in my classroom I wont be able to keep the temperatures so mild over night. I am fortunate to have my own unit in my room, but school policy says that we cant have the heater on higher than 60F overnight and the AC needs to be set on 80F overnight. Still not too horrible but I will need to figure something out for his overnight ambient temperature heating in the winter.

Will changing the substrate make a big difference. I can't find any information on the different effects in UTH temperatures using Repti-bark versus aspen expect that snakes are more likely to burrow in aspen.
 
I am checking constantly because everyone keeps mentioning burrowing, but he hasnt even seemed remotely interested in burrowing. He actually has been climbing way more than anything else (until I fed him). If I get the glass temperature to 85F after I put the substrate on it the ground temp is about 8 degrees cooler. this almost defeats the purpose of having one and calling it a "hot spot" or am I just complicating this way too much?!
 
school policy says that we cant have the heater on higher than 60F overnight and the AC needs to be set on 80F overnight
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about the AC temp. As far as heat, I've heard of people using foam insulation to help. I think its ugly, but you could also slap a UTH on the side like a 'radiant heat panel'.

It's Feb. now so you've got until next Oct/Nov to figure something out. How often do you think the classroom even gets below 68F through the night? I mean if you've got your UTH plugged in, and it is offering a nice 80F temp, then a few times a year it shouldn't be a problem. I just wouldn't feed that night if you thought it was going to get very cold.

Will changing the substrate make a big difference.
Click to expand...

No. One type might heat up more quickly than another, or be slightly better at trapping heat, but I don't think there would be any major, noticeable difference.
 
Your snake is young and probably new, so after he digests he'll probably explore and climb and do all kinds of things.

They will burrow, but not exclusively. Not like a sand boa or a hognose...

If I get the glass temperature to 85F after I put the substrate on it the ground temp is about 8 degrees cooler.
Click to expand...

How thick is the substrate? I usually only use about an inch or so on the warm side.

The cool side I pile it up to make the tank more interesting.
 
I keep my house really cool in the summer. 62 degrees usually. I have several corn snakes that only have the belly heat and they are on a thermostat that keeps the hot side on the glass above the UTH or Heat tape at 85. I have never had a problem. If they have a hide on the hot side above the UTH. They can stay warm enough. If they get cold they can burrow to the glass. Having an unregulated UTH is dangerous and has been known to get up to 120 degrees. There have been keepers that have had the UTH burn the belly of their corns through the glass.
They need to be able to regulate their heat from hot to cold.

It is rather simple to keep corns. Nanci has a caresheet that is awesome. I would look up snickersnakes.
 
I have the repti-bark about 2 inches deep...I actually piled it a little higher about 3 inches) when I realized how hot it was getting after I bought a probe. The people at the pet store don't know anything! Then of course I shouldn't be surprised...I went in for a ball python, which is what I had my tank setup for because I have helped raise one several years ago and they let me leave with a red-tail boa telling me there wasn't really any difference between a ball python and a boa except that the boa would get about a foot longer. I normally do all my research prior to pet purchases and was prepared for a BP but both pet stores in town had very agitated BP and one even struck at me so I wanted to get something else. The breeders around here all feed live and i wasnt prepared to switch a snake to F/T or feed live. After bringing the boa home I called several breeders and herpetologist in the area and found out what a huge mistake I had be lead to make so I returned the guy and came home with a very sweet cornsnake!

Anyway, now I'm trying to play catch-up on learning all the details for a cornsnake when I had the tank prepared for a BP. To follow all the basic care recommendations as close as possible it's a really big difference.
 
I agree! Especially after I found out that I had a red-tail boa that could potentially get 10 ft. My kids did fall in love with it though just because its size was so much more impressive than the corn. I keep telling them that the corn will get big too if we take good care of him and he is slowing growing on them, especially after seeing him eat.

Thanks everyone for all your replies! I do believe I'll be here often to ask questions and maybe one day answer some questions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top