Interesting Outcome.......

[LRDJ]

I know it is a silly question to ask but......can you take a guess?

Same snake...







Thanks for looking!

Orlando

 

[Nanci]

Mandarine Blood. Diffused amel kastanie.

 

[Daniel Wakefield]

I agree with Nanci.......or I could call it a Fire Kastanie, just to be different

 

[zorro]

I think I have a relative, beautiful snake!!!!!
John

 

[LRDJ]

A few years ago a guy by the name of Billy found a pretty snake while mowing the lawn. Today that particular snake has the name of Copper corn snake. To be more specific the snake was found in Pinellas county, FL. A friend of mine who is a good friend of Billy has been working with the copper snake for a few years now and produced and interesting clutch last year..

There has been some speculation that Kastanie and Copper are the same mutation. If I recall, last year I was told that it was the same mutation after it was found by the outcome from crossing a copper x Kastanie.

So....to answer the question, the snake is nothing more than a COPPERSICLE (Copper x creamsicle).

For comparison, here is a picture of a Mandarin Kastanie (the product of a breeding loan from Colorado corns and myself). Picture taken last year...



Pretty interesting indeed...

Thanks for looking!

Orlando

 

[Nanci]

I believe Copper could be Kastanie. I've discussed that with Jarrett a number of times.

 

[jrkime]

I'm not sure 100% what it is, but I'm very excited about working it into a few projects this year. Coppers have such awesome colors!

 

[Walter Smith]

That Manderine is just WOW !!!

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[LRDJ]

Thanks guys! I have to correct myself in one of the above statements (working too many emergency after hours lately). The last picture is in fact from
a Mandarine Kastanie blood instead of my previous label. Sorry for the confusion.

Orlando

 

[LRDJ]

Geeeezzzz..... what the heck is wrong with me....

Mandarine (Amel Kastanie) Blood........

Orlando

 

[zorro]

No problem, I knew what you meant!
John
I've got to get some pics of mine.

 

[Palmetto Reptiles]

Jeff Galewood proved kastanie and copper to be the same morph two or three years ago with a kastanie he brought back from Frank Schaub in Germany.

 

[dave partington]

I believe Copper could be Kastanie. I've discussed that with Jarrett a number of times.

Is he working with both pure lines?

A few years ago a guy by the name of Billy found a pretty snake while mowing the lawn. Today that particular snake has the name of Copper corn snake. To be more specific the snake was found in Pinellas county, FL. A friend of mine who is a good friend of Billy has been working with the copper snake for a few years now and produced and interesting clutch last year..

There has been some speculation that Kastanie and Copper are the same mutation. If I recall, last year I was told that it was the same mutation after it was found by the outcome from crossing a copper x Kastanie.

So....to answer the question, the snake is nothing more than a COPPERSICLE (Copper x creamsicle).

For comparison, here is a picture of a Mandarin Kastanie (the product of a breeding loan from Colorado corns and myself). Picture taken last year...



Pretty interesting indeed...

Thanks for looking!

Orlando

Okay Orlando, I like you a lot you're a difficult specimen of the human race to not like, but I highlighted and reddened it and boldified it. Not sure what you mean by mutation here. YES! There are some very similar attributes within the copper/kastanie/mahogany/rosy lines. The bright colors at the head / neck which tone down the body length. And a similar overlay of black. On the Classic/"Normals".

BUT, breeding classic to classic of course yields 100% classics. Which simply mixes up the genomes And mixes up trait colors. Each of the rosy/Ka/Cop/Mah lines has it's own unique ground color. How that ground color translates, by itself in a pure form, unmixed -- into amel, anery, snow, butter, fire, etc etc... may yield different results.

So by "mutation", do you mean the mutation of color change down the body length, or the placement of black patterning on the overall snake, or?

Or is this perhaps something more work needs to be done on as of yet?

Jeff Galewood proved kastanie and copper to be the same morph two or three years ago with a kastanie he brought back from Frank Schaub in Germany.

No, he proved that classic X classic = classic. I still have the majority of those. Save a pair Chris got.

 

[LRDJ]

Okay….Dave,

You're too loco and funny at the same time.

So by "mutation", do you mean the mutation of color change down the body length…..yes but perhaps more work needs to be done on as of yet?……Correct.

Here is a tough one… Can you tell which is which? As you stated above, every single animal has its unique ground color.

I need to come and visit some time…

Take care!

Orlando

 

[iculatr]

The one in the lay box is mine! Orlando...are you ever going to return her to her rightful owner???

 

[dave partington]

Hope You Gots Your UnPocoLoco Dave De-Coder Ring Handy

Orlando, you know hows much I loves the guessing game. Suffice it to say, I have some copper here, the Kastanie het ultra I got from Jeff which he got from Schaub went to someone in Lousiana or Missippissippippii or one of the bayou states down yonder. Not having had chestnuts or walnuts or filberts or mahogany or teak or rosys etc, I am unable to tell or make deslusional guesses presented as factual statements, about what the critters are in your lovely photos. Loco grande. Besides which this dimming monitor in its golden years compliments my dimming eyesight in my golden years. Post the walker picture for a morph ID...
#6 looks like the kastanie that went to a gulfport shrimping state. #2 looks kinda like a copper. The rest, I dunno for sure. Hell, I dont know any of them for sure. Butt weight, I ain't done yet. Their's moor. Shouldn't there be a name for the coverall-overall morph-- that is, for the intense change of color from head to vent- a name for that? So as to not confuse that aspect with the locality/classic names?
Comes to mind the cinders, how the original ones had a pear-shape-in-cross-section-body-form, 48 +/- saddles, and good red color on them, so they couldn't be a kind of anery because anery is the lack of red--- anyways- out-crossed cinders started to get fatter body forms and started to be missing the high saddle count and - when amel projects started- some turned out more pink/white, others more redred-n-white--peppermints should be obviously red and white, the pink and white ones- those must be reverting or turning into whatever the base locality/classic was which donated the amel gene into the project---yes/no? ======= so at which point were some of these still labelled as cinders even though all of the things that made cinders- cinders............ was no longer really there........ I use cinder because its been around a LiTTLe while longer, and because I feel it is a good example arbitrarily... for what we may see from some of this collective morph.

 

[LRDJ]

Orlando, you know hows much I loves the guessing game. Suffice it to say, I have some copper here, the Kastanie het ultra I got from Jeff which he got from Schaub went to someone in Lousiana or Missippissippippii or one of the bayou states down yonder. Not having had chestnuts or walnuts or filberts or mahogany or teak or rosys etc, I am unable to tell or make deslusional guesses presented as factual statements, about what the critters are in your lovely photos. Loco grande. Besides which this dimming monitor in its golden years compliments my dimming eyesight in my golden years. Post the walker picture for a morph ID...
#6 looks like the kastanie that went to a gulfport shrimping state. #2 looks kinda like a copper. The rest, I dunno for sure. Hell, I dont know any of them for sure. Butt weight, I ain't done yet. Their's moor. Shouldn't there be a name for the coverall-overall morph-- that is, for the intense change of color from head to vent- a name for that? So as to not confuse that aspect with the locality/classic names?
Comes to mind the cinders, how the original ones had a pear-shape-in-cross-section-body-form, 48 +/- saddles, and good red color on them, so they couldn't be a kind of anery because anery is the lack of red--- anyways- out-crossed cinders started to get fatter body forms and started to be missing the high saddle count and - when amel projects started- some turned out more pink/white, others more redred-n-white--peppermints should be obviously red and white, the pink and white ones- those must be reverting or turning into whatever the base locality/classic was which donated the amel gene into the project---yes/no? ======= so at which point were some of these still labelled as cinders even though all of the things that made cinders- cinders............ was no longer really there........ I use cinder because its been around a LiTTLe while longer, and because I feel it is a good example arbitrarily... for what we may see from some of this collective morph.

Dave,

I see your point and thanks for the good info. I only put the pictures in there to
show that every single animal has its unique ground color/phenotypic variation. I guess once we figured this out then we can come up with a solution to this madness………..e.g., Mandarin, Sunrise, Copper, Mahogany, Java, Kastanie, Rosy lines, etc.

Here is the line-up….

1. Copper x Kastanie - I actually bought the pair from you in one of your auctions.

2. Kastanie - SMR

3. Mahogany

4. Copper - came directly from Beau in Tampa.

5. Mahogany - sibling to picture #3. Gourmet Rodent production

6. Kastanie x Java - SMR

BTW….let me know if you still have that Kastanie het ultra

Take care!

Orlando

 

[ratsncorns]

In 2011 I picked up a female at Petco that looked like a kastanie and look at her now! To me her genes have been a mystery but now I'm thinking I have a Gourmet Rodent Mahogany. She looks a lot like your male Orlando! What do you think? How was I to know that odd looking corn would be such a find?

 

[dave partington]

Dave,

I see your point and thanks for the good info. I only put the pictures in there to
show that every single animal has its unique ground color/phenotypic variation. I guess once we figured this out then we can come up with a solution to this madness………..e.g., Mandarin, Sunrise, Copper, Mahogany, Java, Kastanie, Rosy lines, etc.

Here is the line-up….

1. Copper x Kastanie - I actually bought the pair from you in one of your auctions.

2. Kastanie - SMR

3. Mahogany

4. Copper - came directly from Beau in Tampa.

5. Mahogany - sibling to picture #3. Gourmet Rodent production

6. Kastanie x Java - SMR

BTW….let me know if you still have that Kastanie het ultra

Take care!

Orlando

Regarding #1, Copper X Kastanie, I kept the 20-25% of the clutch which colored up with the darker ground coloration over 2 years, those most like the Kastanie parent.
I kept the 25% which developed the lightest ground coloration over 2 years, the ones most visually like the w/c Copper parent.
I parted with the 50% which did not look much like either parent, or which looked like a blending of both parents or however that is said.

 

[LRDJ]

In 2011 I picked up a female at Petco that looked like a kastanie and look at her now! To me her genes have been a mystery but now I'm thinking I have a Gourmet Rodent Mahogany. She looks a lot like your male Orlando! What do you think? How was I to know that odd looking corn would be such a find?

Angela,
That is one good looking snake. It does look like one. I will gather some images from the male for your review. Thanks for sharing!

Orlando