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Jasper regurge questions

Jasper

Jasper

New member
Our new (and only) corn, Jasper, who we just brought home last Saturday regurged one of two pinkies we fed him. Here's some background. I would be very interested in getting some feedback from you all, so we can make sure we do the right things to keep him healthy.

Jasper first fed at the pet store when we bought him. The breeder stated Jasper, who is 4 months old, has no problems eating two pinkies, live or dead and before we left her store, she fed him two live pinkies and he quickly ate them both. We were happy he had a good appetite. That was Saturday evening, 13 August.

We told her we wanted to switch him to a Wednesday feed schedule, so she suggested we offer him one pinkie this past Wednesday, but we didn't because he had not yet "disposed" of what he had eaten. We checked the viv for three days and nothing. But on Thursday morning, he had done his business so my wife and son went back to the store for another pinkie. This time, she said that we could feed him two pinkies again, so my wife followed her advice and bought two.

When they got home (I was still at work), they discovered another waste pile, but also a regurged pinkie. They removed the waste and pinkie, but went ahead and fed him anyway, something I would not have done. Nevertheless, he also ate both of them as well and this time, they were dead ones. He now has been in his hide for the past 24 hours, and we have not handled him and will not for another 24 hours.

I want to clarify a few things with the experts, because we are growing very attached to him quickly (even my wife who is very skittish of many creatures) and we want to make sure we provide him with the absolute best care. My understanding:

1. Feed once a week.
2. Do not handle for 48 hours.
3. Do not feed until they poop.

The temp in the viv is 85 warm side/75 cool side and we have only handled for short periods following the rules above. So do you think we should only feed one pinkie for now until we see if he regurges again? Are the above rules correct and enough? Your responses are greatly appreciated.

One other thing: we never see him drink and whenever I put him back into the viv I always set him by the water bowl (which is on the cool side of the viv), he immediately starts to drink. By the way he drinks, it seems like he hadn't had any water over the past 24 hours. This concerns me. We change the water every 24 hours and only use bottled water at room temperature. Any thoughts?

Thanks all for your help in this matter.

Jim (snakenewbiexp's dad)
 
It really sounds like you have covered all you bases. Perhaps the regurge has something to do with being in a new home and just being a little skittish. I think the best advice I could give you would be to wait ten days from the regurge, and try feeding one pinky. In those then days I'd suggest minimal interaction to allow Jasper to get a little more comfortable in his surroundings.
 
Hey there fellow Missourian.

It sounds like you did everything fine, allthough the feeding may have been a little too soon. Remember Jaspers whole world changed on Saturday and it may take him some time to de-stress, all snakes take different times to adjust. I would offer another 2 pinkies next Wednesday and see how he goes. I am guessing he will be fine.

I would say the drinking right after the meal is normal, at least not uncommon as I have 3 adults that still do the same.

You sound like you are doing everything right as far as handling goes, I know it is hard to resist. I got 4 more hatchlings delivered on Tuesday and it is killing me not to be able to "play" with the little buggers. Just to give you an idea of my "new arrival" routine, I put them straight into their new home, leave them for 4 days only disturbing them to change their water. However I don't change their water on their second day after arriving, just to leave them explore and settle at their own pace. These guys and gals will get their first feed offering (with me) on Monday.

I hope this helps ease your mind some, I would not worry about the regurge and try again next Wednesday.
 
Graffix is right but as I stated before him, do not wait any less than ten days. It takes time for the corns stomach to recover from a regurg.
 
jzal8 said:
Graffix is right but as I stated before him, do not wait any less than ten days. It takes time for the corns stomach to recover from a regurg.
Click to expand...

Please don't take this the wrong way jzal8, I honestly am curious. 10 days seems like a long time to wait after a partial regurge. For a full regurge I would say 10 days is cautious.

I am only asking because after a thermostat failure some time back I had 1 regurge (temp drop), I offered food 5 days later an he has not missed a meal since, maybe I was just lucky.
 
It is definitly believable that waiting only five days had a successful result with your corn. However, regurgs are very negative on corns, especially if they happen over and over again.

It is regularly suggested that you wait ten days to retry to feed your corn after a regurge. What I have read is that it can take about a weak for the corn to reproduce the stomach acids needed for digestion and allow their digestive system to recover from the trauma of a regurg.

Also ten days is not such a long time for a corn to wait to eat, and in this case it is definitly better to be safe than risk another regurg, even though as you pointed out, feeding earlier may be successful.

Definitly did not take it the wrong way, and I hope you don't think I am trying to contradict you. Just trying to give the best advice from what I've learned through my research. :) If you search the forum I'm sure you'll find about the same advice over and over again.

Good luck with Jasper! :wavey:
 
Thanks for the advice

I just wanted to say thanks for the quick replies on the regurge issues. I appreciate your input and have already briefed my family. We'll just have to wait and see. I told them we can't handle him at all this weekend so that he can rest and recover. If he should regurge again, then we will certainly wait the 10 days as recommended, and I think we'll back off to only one pinkie at that time.
 
I have attached Kathy Love's (www.cornutopia.com) regurge FAQ - she sent me this when one of my new hatchlings regurged. I don't think she'd mind my sharing it.

Some additional advice she offered --
> I use Nutri Bac whenever they do that - seems to help put back in what
> could be missing. Be sure to wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days before feeding
> again, to give her digestive tract a rest. And then do just the one
> half pink. If she holds it down, continue with the half pink for the
> next few feedings. You have to go slow or risk another regurge.


*Subject:* regurge treatment
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice
or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies,
unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very
important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS
BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling
too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug",
or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice,
it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY.
But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted,
and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each
time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up
until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not
know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly
does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8
days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a
newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head)
If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling).
Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a
whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no
regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a
week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and
repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT
rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this
seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a
newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6
successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days,
but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes
stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after
a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10
days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or
less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an
area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or
cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some
sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural
remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as
strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has
been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe,
as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not
burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat
alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are
absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a
vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the
vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to
mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that
the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has
my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for
other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck
treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a
local health food store or online. Please refer to the
following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine
powder containing seven different microflora that should be
inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress,
disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a
supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural
balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune
system can take over. See my website for more details.

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not
set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different
formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my
customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed,
it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only
hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save
your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting
with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's
care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby
established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first
month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15
years or more.


I really appreciated Kathy's advice and hope she doesn't mind me passing it along. Best wishes with your little one!!
 
Jasper's Regurge

Deb,

Thank you very much for passing that information along. We will certainly follow the advice. We do not want anything to happen to Jasper. One good thing is he's not a newborn, he's 4 months old and has successfully fed in the past. We will not handle him at all while he recovers. We added yet another hide, purchased a stronger heat lamp, and we've added a digital thermometer with the probe buried in the substrate for a better picture of Jasper's condition. Between the two thermometer strips, one on the each side and the digital, we we can ensure his viv maintains a proper temp. We've also added a second water bowl for him to drink - now he has one on both sides of the viv. Yesterday, we must have monitored his viv temps at least 30 times and constantly try to see if he's ok. He was out of his hide, moving around some. I remain optimistic about his recovery. Yesterday, my son was extremely upset, because he thought it was his "fault" that Jasper got sick. I explained to him he was not to blame, but he really loves his new snake. I would have never guessed that our family could become so emotionally attached to the little bugger so quickly! Perhaps slightly off-topic now but we really love all of God's creatures. Thank you again! And thanks to the owner of this website- it continues to be of great help to us!
 
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