Going between this thread and the other on PETA, it suddenly occurred to me to ask.. Kathy, do you know of any animal charities that worthwhile for us reptile people to donate to? Not that I have a spare buck I'm willing to give up ATM, but it would be good for us all to know who we can give to when we're so inclined that WON'T fight against our reptile rights.. My GF gives to the WWF, and I'm concerned suddenly about what that might be doing.
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Nationwide Call Day on Monday-- HR2811
- Thread starter Hypancistrus
- Start date
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
I know at one time, the WWF supported sustainable use of wildlife in third world countries in order to help local people, but I don't know if they currently do. I don't remember seeing their name on the support for HR 669, but I don't remember every name on it. And WWF is more concerned with international trade. So I can't say yes or no for them for sure.
But I believe that if I have any spare money (haha - yeah, right!), it will go to support PIJAC and US ARK. When conservation and humaniac groups are so bent on our destruction, I think we have to be in a survival mode. But if you donate to them, and still have spare money laying around, maybe you should check into your local shelter to see if it is run in such a way as to deserve your hard earned money. In fact, I would look into local no-kill shelters to support - if I had extra funds. If they are well run, they deserve anything they can get, because they are taking the throw-away pets that our society seems to produce and abandon in such great numbers (makes me want to cry to think about it!), and doing their best to make their lives happy. Makes me really angry to think about the multi millions that HSUS wastes on political agendas, when these no-kill shelters could do SO MUCH with a pittance of that money!
But I believe that if I have any spare money (haha - yeah, right!), it will go to support PIJAC and US ARK. When conservation and humaniac groups are so bent on our destruction, I think we have to be in a survival mode. But if you donate to them, and still have spare money laying around, maybe you should check into your local shelter to see if it is run in such a way as to deserve your hard earned money. In fact, I would look into local no-kill shelters to support - if I had extra funds. If they are well run, they deserve anything they can get, because they are taking the throw-away pets that our society seems to produce and abandon in such great numbers (makes me want to cry to think about it!), and doing their best to make their lives happy. Makes me really angry to think about the multi millions that HSUS wastes on political agendas, when these no-kill shelters could do SO MUCH with a pittance of that money!
Hypancistrus
New member
NAIA is another good non-profit. They are similar to USARK though, involved mainly in advocacy. I would support them if I had spare cash, they were one of the groups that backed the nationwide fight against HR 669.
http://www.naiaonline.org/
From their position statements... on exotic pets.
http://www.naiaonline.org/about/policy_pets.htm#exotics
http://www.naiaonline.org/
From their position statements... on exotic pets.
http://www.naiaonline.org/about/policy_pets.htm#exotics
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
Now that sounds like a policy I can support!
I don't see anything wrong with having a political agenda, as long as it is not disguised as something else in order to garner more donations. I just wish donors would really study that agenda (of ANY non-profit) to make sure they really agree with almost all of it, before sending money in. If everyone did that, I think donations to the humaniac groups would probably take a real hit.
The only other thing I would want to know before sending money to any charity, is how much is spent on administration, and how much is spent on whatever their mission is. Some groups are very top heavy (I have heard that PETA and HSUS both pay some HUGE salaries to top leaders, but so do many other charities). But if that looks good, then this organization is looking pretty good to me, although I didn't read their site very thoroughly yet.
I don't see anything wrong with having a political agenda, as long as it is not disguised as something else in order to garner more donations. I just wish donors would really study that agenda (of ANY non-profit) to make sure they really agree with almost all of it, before sending money in. If everyone did that, I think donations to the humaniac groups would probably take a real hit.
The only other thing I would want to know before sending money to any charity, is how much is spent on administration, and how much is spent on whatever their mission is. Some groups are very top heavy (I have heard that PETA and HSUS both pay some HUGE salaries to top leaders, but so do many other charities). But if that looks good, then this organization is looking pretty good to me, although I didn't read their site very thoroughly yet.
dave partington
Crazy Dave
Pardon me, I have grown numb of this research project,
paragraphs & sentences might have been arranged in a more cohesive order
I tried to judge the situation without emotion but sometimes fell off the track a bit
Saying harsh things about one organization over the other is dramatic,but if you get upset if someone says something about your fave, then double standards...using the same tactics on them which they use on us or rise above that and present facts un-felonishly, thereby retaining a smidgen of dignity --is it possible to make yourself look smart/better through making someone else look bad? taking a moment to re-visit old strategies...living one's life as if always on camera, glad I'm not an official spokesperson, I say wrong things all the time. Know thyself and all that mess.
Utilizing "contemporary, key buzzwords", as they initiate specific emotional response/s from the reader/viewer - is smart writing. -one used to be able to say "their focus changed significantly" but eventually the public became numbed to this wording, and so now "their focus changed radically" might be used, It is the job of any good, successful journalist to be familiar with the words which elicit response and encourage involvement from the audience. Beaucratic, economic, stimulus, package (no longer "system"), "big brother", arbitrary (timeless), reiteration, change(s), and a herd of other keywords which illicit feelings from Publica generalia.
Animal Rights is a good search.
HSUS Accomplishments 2006 & 2007
============================================================
===BEGIN===
The first step in avoiding a trap is to be aware there is a trap.
If I read enough about HSUS, on sites which are not the HSUS website, I'll absorb the conclusions of others and accept them as a foundation for my research assignment on HSUS. Then I found a biographical reference which I found inspirational, and, while it is regarding a different topic, it provided me foundation for this quest.
Throughout this and all subsequent battles, Marjorie has clung to the principle of making environmental decisions based on sound scientific and technical information. During her 30 year presidency of FDE, Marjorie has followed the precepts of sticking only to the facts and of not engaging in emotional attacks in the complex, delicate and long-term work of environmental protection. My Dad is mentioned on that page too.
http://www.findbiography.org/famous-scientists/marjorie-harris-carr
More: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="marjorie+harris+carr"&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g3
{i}But also by 1970, Marjorie Carr was in high gear as well. She, along with Bill Partington of the Florida Audubon Society, had organized a diverse group of scientists, economists, lawyers and conservationists into the Florida Defenders of the Environment (FDE). After linking her group with the Environmental Defense Fund, Carr soon vaulted into the spotlight as the face of public opposition to the (Cross Florida Barge) canal.{/i}
http://www.rinr.fsu.edu/issues/2007summerfall/cover06_a.asp
Growing up I'd opportunity to absorb information about a few causes with significant similarities, though the nouns are different now. Some of the other accomplishments I'ver been exposed to besides Dad being Director of Orange Audubon, where I got to meet a lady with unusual pets, include creating and operating the Florida Conservation Foundation and ENFO newsletters in a magazine style binding. Prior to there being recognized an "oil crisis" in the early 1980's, Dad started publishing How to build your own solar water heater, and after that, the pool heater, and even ran a short quantity of "How to build a solar water heater out of beer cans". Although nobody has seen any in years. So those of you with clutterful closets may have a valuable treasure in there. Mom and family friend John Blackburn founded/created Florida Solar Coalition, a group of grassroots activists interested in clean energy that didn't cause pollution elsewhere, and then went on to write a book titled "Sustainable futures: Examples of renewable energy in the sunshine state ". Several spin off groups happened along the way; persons interested in constructing dwellings out of recycled products, passive design, energy efficiency, composting toilets, live in a geodesic dome...It was a great time for Americans to use their freedom and try new things. Small Enterprise started to boom. Don't tick off big brother and the mega-corporations wallets too much...Well, Fortunately, the
oil crisis came to an end. So energy was cheap again. By then the new concept of "going back to nature" was old. The FSC became a club of mostly solar related businesses, interested in making money, thus the grass roots people which started it were effectively alienated out of it. I compare this to Kathy's mentioning the humane society changed direction. Organizations change, and not always to please each and every member.Back when Dad met up with Lady Bird Johnson and discussed making Florida the second state with a native plant society, he was joined up with Dave Drylie of Green Images, and together they forged the Florida Native Plant Society, and in his usual way, developed the newsletter, The Palmetto. He also helped persons in 14 other states develop their native plant society's. Later on, a few years into the existence of the FNPS, many members seemed more interested in attaining goals other than the direction he would have taken it, so Dad let the organization go on without himself. Though today he's a member again, as the organization has added an additional goal to acheive whatever it was again and all's peachy. From there he went on to form a new department at Rollins college, Environmental Studies. And on and on. I've left out a lot.
In the 50's & 60's, My mom publicly educated people about snakes for what was supposed to be just the week of "be kind to animals week", but that week turned into a 4 year long -3 days a week sometimes 4 volunteer project. I also recall one of my grandmothers giving the neighbor's black lab dog a full package of Oreos, and a quart of milk, in a pie tin. Every day of the "be kind to animals week". Unfortunately, grandmama din't know much about dogs, so on week 9 of be kind to animals week, the poor dog had an explosive heart attack while running to her. It took four people to carry the dog home, and another 2 to get grandmother back in the house, as she'd been sneaking some Oreos herself
I've found the The WayBack Machine is especially helpful in this research project.
According to an episode of the BBC series called 'Nova' on the Pet Trade (1970's-80's), 90% of wild captured or ensnared wildlife (of all kinds) which is imported dies before getting here. Another 90% dies before getting to the final customer. I realize the reptile pet business needs to acquire some imported stock for keeping blood lines healthy, assuming of course, there aren't captive bred/produced comprable specimens available. If importation of all snakes were to stop today, what would happen to the prices of captive bred specimens? Evidently there is so much demand that it doesn't make much difference if 90 African House Snakes die so 10 can make it here alive, and turn into $45.00 cash, each. Demand for them would still be the same, but with fewer to go around, it would create a surge in their perceived value... prices would go up. Would this be so bad for the captive breeders? I'm convinced there aren't enough Ball Pythons in captivity and we need to continue importing them because it keeps the prices down on the captive bred ones. So there is some opportunity. America, you have choices. Tell the customer the python you are selling has gps, but that guy down the road, his don't have gps. Customer tells the kid the pet python is okay without gps, and then when it goes missing, along with the pet cat and some of the neighburs pets. Customer is glad they didn't blow 50 bucks more for the gps one.
I haven't found any current stats on mortality rates of wild caught imported stock; fortunately many reptiles can go without food for several weeks to several months. It's easier to run a price & profit driven fauna import business if one doesn't have to worry about feeding the stock on the shelf. If the stock isn't feeding, then there's not much to have to clean up after, so it's a real win-win situation for many of them. Many is not all. Though it does make one wonder how many times that animal has been traded before it gets to you, whereupon many of them promptly die.
How many times a parent has purchased a pet for their child, and that pet has died, quickly? How is the affect of death of that animal related to that family's perception of pets of that kind in general? 'Oh your brother had one of those once and it died so we're not going to spending any money on one of those for you". If only captive bred/captive born pets were available, would the mortality rate of animals in the pet trade decrease?
Since the beginning of agriculture, plants and animals have been moved about by humans. We've seen enough examples of non-native species astray and breeding around our world- today you can buy all kinds of Pets and Potential Living Threats online. To me, personally, it seems just a little too easy to have a Valdeezesque whoopsiedaisy with the potential to breed a Brobdingnagian disaster over time.
Things change. You used to be able to ask for a little and get a little. These days you have to ask for a trillion point four and be thankful if you get the 400 billion you actually wanted.
This wasn't the first time a US citizen had been kilt by a python; it had happened twice before. And each time before, the HSUS tried to make pythons illegal in each of those states. Rather suprisingly, nobody seemed to notice a pattern forming. So when the Floriduh incident happened, sometimes one has to look at the past to see into the future. Evidently your friends at USARK had, as history indicates to us, were ready and expectant.
The banning of importation of the one that isn't P.m.molurus or P.m.pimbura, you know, bivi..., and it wasn't really HSUS that got this; it was the Governor Crist. HSUS had intervened to make all python trade prohibited in Florida, thus preying on Mr. Crist's vulnerabilities, which seemed to indicate nobody in the reptile community had spoken with him nor his staff to provide them with another viewpoint worthy of consideration. Nobody can make a well informed decision if not enough information is presented. So initally, he made a decision, which he believed to be a good decision (the banning of pythons), but later realized it was a decision made hastily had forgotten about Florida citizens whom bring money into his state breeding them. Florida already had a problem with feral pythons, and Gov. Crist wanted them done away with, so in this instance, HSUS did not gain anything. Thank you Governor Crist. I assume everyone remembered to send him a thank you card.
Create solutions to avoid problems... assess each Order Suborder Family Genus Species SubSpecies & Locality Type Known for each known animal, including Reptilia. The Wild Forms. CBB Forms (morphs) known only from culture are immune to this legislation. If banning import wild collected ball pythons was put into action today, then sure, some wild caught stuff would still come in through grandfathering and bribery/conspiracy, but the availability of those varieties would diminish; if the supply goes down and then it might be seen that demand goes up, that is bad for those who are producing them in captivity, because they'd be getting more money for them? Free global trade between captive breeders of that kind in captivity stays open. And there's that pretty iridescent blue one from someplace exotic that only 30 are exported under liscense each year, there aren't many captibreeding programs for those yet. . . so let them continue to come in...it's not like they're running a trawler through the rainforest.
Is the reptile community be doing anything towards benefitting it's own image as perceived by Joe Average in As Seen from Joe Average who knows only what he reads in the papers or sees on TV? To put at ease the genuine concerns of persons with snake-a-phobia? You, reader, may consider their concerns irrational or crazy, but to them, that is inconsiderate of you. They are genuine concerns to your fellow citizens.
And as long as "under-educated about pythons" persons are in our society, they have a need and right to life, and need accurate information freely available. As a side note, Wiki seems to be at the center of the web, they need good authors to educate persons unfamiliar with many subjeckz. And better pictures. Maybe someone who reads this can add something pictorial. And maybe add something to this.
Clifford H Pope "The Big Six"; Because no hurricaine has flattened a cheezy structure full of frisky recently imported BigSixers next to a national park in Floriduh, it didn't take me long to find reports of them being found in many parts of the state, under peoples homes in a neighborhood where a lot of cats and dogs had gone missing over the last few days/months/years, in various places around the state. Evidently not enough of them had gotten loose to start a breeding colony. Hay, we've got a great idea: Let's wait until there's a disaster, and then try to figure out how to unmake it. Are there any housing integrity codes an importer has to abide by? Of course that might cause his prices to go up, so captive breeders would make more, too.
While going through the HR669 Videos and related websites,
I notice that the bill refers only directly to non-cats and non-dogs. Yet, dogs and cats are non-native species. So there seems to exist a double standard; a blatant prejudice against any animal that is not a dog or cat. Why is this? Is it because so many owners of these two kinds of pets donate considerable sums of money to the HSUS every year, and, smartly, HSUS does not want their funding to dry up overnight? Perhaps there is an opportunity to pressure the government/bill editors and authors to ADD cats and dogs to the HR669 bill, so please be precisely clear in our defining of "non native species". Then, suddenly, the cats and dogs would instantly have something in common with reptile nation; be on "our" side. Beat HSUS at their own game.
==================Research to find out how many dog and cat bites/attacks/transmitted diseases/asthma/prescriptions&doctor visits (and time X money) are accounted.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dog+bite+statistics&aq=0&oq=dog+bite+statist&aqi=g10
The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2007 there were 33 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Couldn't figure out how many people are killed by horses every year.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...y+horses+each+year"&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
smokescreens and mirrors-- has anybody from the HSUS asked for the removal of anti-HSUS from their webstes? From my perspective, having observed numerous wildlife/environmentalconcern groups since I can ever remember- If the HSUS doesn't make an effort to ask REPTILE RELATED webmasters remove their anti-HSUS spammograms, Is, just perhaps, HSUS using us to make ourselves "look bad"...Personally, I love dolphins, but if I bloggy 'HSUS is bad', does this mean I hate Dolphins? you can research it for yourself. http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/...mmals/dolphins_and_other_small_cetaceans.html and a HSUS inspired spin-off http://www.miamiseaprison.com/hsus-swim.htm
Maybe they HSUS wants you to carry on, perhaps instigating you into action is just part of something bigger. A prelude to something far more devious.
A Louisiana Cajun was stopped by a game warden because he had two
ice chests full of fish. He was leavin' a bayou, well-known for its fishing.
The game warden asked the man, 'Do you have a license to catch those fish?'
'Naw, sir', replied the cajun. 'I ain't got none of dem there licenses.
You gotta unnerstan', dese here are my pet fish.'
'Pet fish?'
'Yeah. Evry night, I take dese here fish down to de lake and let 'em
swim 'round for 'while. Den, when I whistle, dey jump right back into dis here ice chests and I take 'em home.'
'That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that.'
The cajun looked at the warden for a moment and then said, 'It's de truth Mr. Government Man. I'll show ya. It really works.'
'O. K. ', said the warden. I've got to see this!'
The cajun poured the fish into the lake and stood and waited.
After several minutes, the warden says, 'Well?'
'Well, what?', says the cajun.
The warden says, 'When are you going to call them back?'
'Call who back?'
'The FISH', replied the warden!
'What fish?', replied the Cajun.
Moral of the story: We may not be as smart as some city slickers, but we ain't as dumb as some government employees.
Conclusions:
Doing my own research is a good thing.
I'm at conflicted crossroads after doing this research. I could probably start a new 501c3 concern group of my own which embraces some of both what several animal concern organizations are doing, though there will some differences from what the 2 inspirational parent groups do. It is not uncommon for any group which becomes large to attract a following, and then within the masses, some persons get together and form smaller clans within the organization. So in a large organization like the HSUS, there has to be many departments, so as a whole, the business can pump out results. Sometimes theres a tad of mutiny and a department or group of inspired people go off and start a new organization. So I agree with a part of what all else I've absorbed out there. My conclusion is,
if you take all the good aspects about a person and all the bad aspects, and the aspects which are neither good nor bad, but just are
you wind up with an average person.
Persona make up organizations, so there you have it.
This does not negate the fact that I must be aware there is a trap. And don't be hasty. Remember the Indigo. The legislation which deemed to protect it also victimized it.
Dave Average
============================================
Other links and thoughts which never got completed:
Invasive and Established Non Native Reptiles
Though so far only 3 of the world's 14 or whatever Seas have not had a "substantial enough catch in them" to "warrant" (a "buzzoword") fishing in them in awhile, and 7 or so of the others are "expected to crash" (a key "buzz-phrase") in the next 10 years, then how come HSUS hasn't wreckammended to Congress that all fishing in the seas be made Illegal? Perhaps the chefs own dogs, and gives to the HSUS, so it wouldn't be right to offend a donor over raping the oceans fish, Well, golly, let's outlaw automobiles and petroleum while we're at it. needs to research this paragraph more before presenting assumptions as facts.
HSUS is against pollution.
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/B...of-Non-Party-Humane-Society-International.pdf
paragraphs & sentences might have been arranged in a more cohesive order
I tried to judge the situation without emotion but sometimes fell off the track a bit
Saying harsh things about one organization over the other is dramatic,but if you get upset if someone says something about your fave, then double standards...using the same tactics on them which they use on us or rise above that and present facts un-felonishly, thereby retaining a smidgen of dignity --is it possible to make yourself look smart/better through making someone else look bad? taking a moment to re-visit old strategies...living one's life as if always on camera, glad I'm not an official spokesperson, I say wrong things all the time. Know thyself and all that mess.
Utilizing "contemporary, key buzzwords", as they initiate specific emotional response/s from the reader/viewer - is smart writing. -one used to be able to say "their focus changed significantly" but eventually the public became numbed to this wording, and so now "their focus changed radically" might be used, It is the job of any good, successful journalist to be familiar with the words which elicit response and encourage involvement from the audience. Beaucratic, economic, stimulus, package (no longer "system"), "big brother", arbitrary (timeless), reiteration, change(s), and a herd of other keywords which illicit feelings from Publica generalia.
Animal Rights is a good search.
HSUS Accomplishments 2006 & 2007
============================================================
===BEGIN===
The first step in avoiding a trap is to be aware there is a trap.
If I read enough about HSUS, on sites which are not the HSUS website, I'll absorb the conclusions of others and accept them as a foundation for my research assignment on HSUS. Then I found a biographical reference which I found inspirational, and, while it is regarding a different topic, it provided me foundation for this quest.
Throughout this and all subsequent battles, Marjorie has clung to the principle of making environmental decisions based on sound scientific and technical information. During her 30 year presidency of FDE, Marjorie has followed the precepts of sticking only to the facts and of not engaging in emotional attacks in the complex, delicate and long-term work of environmental protection. My Dad is mentioned on that page too.
http://www.findbiography.org/famous-scientists/marjorie-harris-carr
More: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="marjorie+harris+carr"&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g3
{i}But also by 1970, Marjorie Carr was in high gear as well. She, along with Bill Partington of the Florida Audubon Society, had organized a diverse group of scientists, economists, lawyers and conservationists into the Florida Defenders of the Environment (FDE). After linking her group with the Environmental Defense Fund, Carr soon vaulted into the spotlight as the face of public opposition to the (Cross Florida Barge) canal.{/i}
http://www.rinr.fsu.edu/issues/2007summerfall/cover06_a.asp
Growing up I'd opportunity to absorb information about a few causes with significant similarities, though the nouns are different now. Some of the other accomplishments I'ver been exposed to besides Dad being Director of Orange Audubon, where I got to meet a lady with unusual pets, include creating and operating the Florida Conservation Foundation and ENFO newsletters in a magazine style binding. Prior to there being recognized an "oil crisis" in the early 1980's, Dad started publishing How to build your own solar water heater, and after that, the pool heater, and even ran a short quantity of "How to build a solar water heater out of beer cans". Although nobody has seen any in years. So those of you with clutterful closets may have a valuable treasure in there. Mom and family friend John Blackburn founded/created Florida Solar Coalition, a group of grassroots activists interested in clean energy that didn't cause pollution elsewhere, and then went on to write a book titled "Sustainable futures: Examples of renewable energy in the sunshine state ". Several spin off groups happened along the way; persons interested in constructing dwellings out of recycled products, passive design, energy efficiency, composting toilets, live in a geodesic dome...It was a great time for Americans to use their freedom and try new things. Small Enterprise started to boom. Don't tick off big brother and the mega-corporations wallets too much...Well, Fortunately, the
oil crisis came to an end. So energy was cheap again. By then the new concept of "going back to nature" was old. The FSC became a club of mostly solar related businesses, interested in making money, thus the grass roots people which started it were effectively alienated out of it. I compare this to Kathy's mentioning the humane society changed direction. Organizations change, and not always to please each and every member.Back when Dad met up with Lady Bird Johnson and discussed making Florida the second state with a native plant society, he was joined up with Dave Drylie of Green Images, and together they forged the Florida Native Plant Society, and in his usual way, developed the newsletter, The Palmetto. He also helped persons in 14 other states develop their native plant society's. Later on, a few years into the existence of the FNPS, many members seemed more interested in attaining goals other than the direction he would have taken it, so Dad let the organization go on without himself. Though today he's a member again, as the organization has added an additional goal to acheive whatever it was again and all's peachy. From there he went on to form a new department at Rollins college, Environmental Studies. And on and on. I've left out a lot.
In the 50's & 60's, My mom publicly educated people about snakes for what was supposed to be just the week of "be kind to animals week", but that week turned into a 4 year long -3 days a week sometimes 4 volunteer project. I also recall one of my grandmothers giving the neighbor's black lab dog a full package of Oreos, and a quart of milk, in a pie tin. Every day of the "be kind to animals week". Unfortunately, grandmama din't know much about dogs, so on week 9 of be kind to animals week, the poor dog had an explosive heart attack while running to her. It took four people to carry the dog home, and another 2 to get grandmother back in the house, as she'd been sneaking some Oreos herself
I've found the The WayBack Machine is especially helpful in this research project.
According to an episode of the BBC series called 'Nova' on the Pet Trade (1970's-80's), 90% of wild captured or ensnared wildlife (of all kinds) which is imported dies before getting here. Another 90% dies before getting to the final customer. I realize the reptile pet business needs to acquire some imported stock for keeping blood lines healthy, assuming of course, there aren't captive bred/produced comprable specimens available. If importation of all snakes were to stop today, what would happen to the prices of captive bred specimens? Evidently there is so much demand that it doesn't make much difference if 90 African House Snakes die so 10 can make it here alive, and turn into $45.00 cash, each. Demand for them would still be the same, but with fewer to go around, it would create a surge in their perceived value... prices would go up. Would this be so bad for the captive breeders? I'm convinced there aren't enough Ball Pythons in captivity and we need to continue importing them because it keeps the prices down on the captive bred ones. So there is some opportunity. America, you have choices. Tell the customer the python you are selling has gps, but that guy down the road, his don't have gps. Customer tells the kid the pet python is okay without gps, and then when it goes missing, along with the pet cat and some of the neighburs pets. Customer is glad they didn't blow 50 bucks more for the gps one.
I haven't found any current stats on mortality rates of wild caught imported stock; fortunately many reptiles can go without food for several weeks to several months. It's easier to run a price & profit driven fauna import business if one doesn't have to worry about feeding the stock on the shelf. If the stock isn't feeding, then there's not much to have to clean up after, so it's a real win-win situation for many of them. Many is not all. Though it does make one wonder how many times that animal has been traded before it gets to you, whereupon many of them promptly die.
How many times a parent has purchased a pet for their child, and that pet has died, quickly? How is the affect of death of that animal related to that family's perception of pets of that kind in general? 'Oh your brother had one of those once and it died so we're not going to spending any money on one of those for you". If only captive bred/captive born pets were available, would the mortality rate of animals in the pet trade decrease?
Since the beginning of agriculture, plants and animals have been moved about by humans. We've seen enough examples of non-native species astray and breeding around our world- today you can buy all kinds of Pets and Potential Living Threats online. To me, personally, it seems just a little too easy to have a Valdeezesque whoopsiedaisy with the potential to breed a Brobdingnagian disaster over time.
Things change. You used to be able to ask for a little and get a little. These days you have to ask for a trillion point four and be thankful if you get the 400 billion you actually wanted.
This wasn't the first time a US citizen had been kilt by a python; it had happened twice before. And each time before, the HSUS tried to make pythons illegal in each of those states. Rather suprisingly, nobody seemed to notice a pattern forming. So when the Floriduh incident happened, sometimes one has to look at the past to see into the future. Evidently your friends at USARK had, as history indicates to us, were ready and expectant.
The banning of importation of the one that isn't P.m.molurus or P.m.pimbura, you know, bivi..., and it wasn't really HSUS that got this; it was the Governor Crist. HSUS had intervened to make all python trade prohibited in Florida, thus preying on Mr. Crist's vulnerabilities, which seemed to indicate nobody in the reptile community had spoken with him nor his staff to provide them with another viewpoint worthy of consideration. Nobody can make a well informed decision if not enough information is presented. So initally, he made a decision, which he believed to be a good decision (the banning of pythons), but later realized it was a decision made hastily had forgotten about Florida citizens whom bring money into his state breeding them. Florida already had a problem with feral pythons, and Gov. Crist wanted them done away with, so in this instance, HSUS did not gain anything. Thank you Governor Crist. I assume everyone remembered to send him a thank you card.
Create solutions to avoid problems... assess each Order Suborder Family Genus Species SubSpecies & Locality Type Known for each known animal, including Reptilia. The Wild Forms. CBB Forms (morphs) known only from culture are immune to this legislation. If banning import wild collected ball pythons was put into action today, then sure, some wild caught stuff would still come in through grandfathering and bribery/conspiracy, but the availability of those varieties would diminish; if the supply goes down and then it might be seen that demand goes up, that is bad for those who are producing them in captivity, because they'd be getting more money for them? Free global trade between captive breeders of that kind in captivity stays open. And there's that pretty iridescent blue one from someplace exotic that only 30 are exported under liscense each year, there aren't many captibreeding programs for those yet. . . so let them continue to come in...it's not like they're running a trawler through the rainforest.
Is the reptile community be doing anything towards benefitting it's own image as perceived by Joe Average in As Seen from Joe Average who knows only what he reads in the papers or sees on TV? To put at ease the genuine concerns of persons with snake-a-phobia? You, reader, may consider their concerns irrational or crazy, but to them, that is inconsiderate of you. They are genuine concerns to your fellow citizens.
And as long as "under-educated about pythons" persons are in our society, they have a need and right to life, and need accurate information freely available. As a side note, Wiki seems to be at the center of the web, they need good authors to educate persons unfamiliar with many subjeckz. And better pictures. Maybe someone who reads this can add something pictorial. And maybe add something to this.
Clifford H Pope "The Big Six"; Because no hurricaine has flattened a cheezy structure full of frisky recently imported BigSixers next to a national park in Floriduh, it didn't take me long to find reports of them being found in many parts of the state, under peoples homes in a neighborhood where a lot of cats and dogs had gone missing over the last few days/months/years, in various places around the state. Evidently not enough of them had gotten loose to start a breeding colony. Hay, we've got a great idea: Let's wait until there's a disaster, and then try to figure out how to unmake it. Are there any housing integrity codes an importer has to abide by? Of course that might cause his prices to go up, so captive breeders would make more, too.
While going through the HR669 Videos and related websites,
I notice that the bill refers only directly to non-cats and non-dogs. Yet, dogs and cats are non-native species. So there seems to exist a double standard; a blatant prejudice against any animal that is not a dog or cat. Why is this? Is it because so many owners of these two kinds of pets donate considerable sums of money to the HSUS every year, and, smartly, HSUS does not want their funding to dry up overnight? Perhaps there is an opportunity to pressure the government/bill editors and authors to ADD cats and dogs to the HR669 bill, so please be precisely clear in our defining of "non native species". Then, suddenly, the cats and dogs would instantly have something in common with reptile nation; be on "our" side. Beat HSUS at their own game.
==================Research to find out how many dog and cat bites/attacks/transmitted diseases/asthma/prescriptions&doctor visits (and time X money) are accounted.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dog+bite+statistics&aq=0&oq=dog+bite+statist&aqi=g10
The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2007 there were 33 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Couldn't figure out how many people are killed by horses every year.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...y+horses+each+year"&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
smokescreens and mirrors-- has anybody from the HSUS asked for the removal of anti-HSUS from their webstes? From my perspective, having observed numerous wildlife/environmentalconcern groups since I can ever remember- If the HSUS doesn't make an effort to ask REPTILE RELATED webmasters remove their anti-HSUS spammograms, Is, just perhaps, HSUS using us to make ourselves "look bad"...Personally, I love dolphins, but if I bloggy 'HSUS is bad', does this mean I hate Dolphins? you can research it for yourself. http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/...mmals/dolphins_and_other_small_cetaceans.html and a HSUS inspired spin-off http://www.miamiseaprison.com/hsus-swim.htm
Maybe they HSUS wants you to carry on, perhaps instigating you into action is just part of something bigger. A prelude to something far more devious.
A Louisiana Cajun was stopped by a game warden because he had two
ice chests full of fish. He was leavin' a bayou, well-known for its fishing.
The game warden asked the man, 'Do you have a license to catch those fish?'
'Naw, sir', replied the cajun. 'I ain't got none of dem there licenses.
You gotta unnerstan', dese here are my pet fish.'
'Pet fish?'
'Yeah. Evry night, I take dese here fish down to de lake and let 'em
swim 'round for 'while. Den, when I whistle, dey jump right back into dis here ice chests and I take 'em home.'
'That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that.'
The cajun looked at the warden for a moment and then said, 'It's de truth Mr. Government Man. I'll show ya. It really works.'
'O. K. ', said the warden. I've got to see this!'
The cajun poured the fish into the lake and stood and waited.
After several minutes, the warden says, 'Well?'
'Well, what?', says the cajun.
The warden says, 'When are you going to call them back?'
'Call who back?'
'The FISH', replied the warden!
'What fish?', replied the Cajun.
Moral of the story: We may not be as smart as some city slickers, but we ain't as dumb as some government employees.
Conclusions:
Doing my own research is a good thing.
I'm at conflicted crossroads after doing this research. I could probably start a new 501c3 concern group of my own which embraces some of both what several animal concern organizations are doing, though there will some differences from what the 2 inspirational parent groups do. It is not uncommon for any group which becomes large to attract a following, and then within the masses, some persons get together and form smaller clans within the organization. So in a large organization like the HSUS, there has to be many departments, so as a whole, the business can pump out results. Sometimes theres a tad of mutiny and a department or group of inspired people go off and start a new organization. So I agree with a part of what all else I've absorbed out there. My conclusion is,
if you take all the good aspects about a person and all the bad aspects, and the aspects which are neither good nor bad, but just are
you wind up with an average person.
Persona make up organizations, so there you have it.
This does not negate the fact that I must be aware there is a trap. And don't be hasty. Remember the Indigo. The legislation which deemed to protect it also victimized it.
Dave Average
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Other links and thoughts which never got completed:
Invasive and Established Non Native Reptiles
Though so far only 3 of the world's 14 or whatever Seas have not had a "substantial enough catch in them" to "warrant" (a "buzzoword") fishing in them in awhile, and 7 or so of the others are "expected to crash" (a key "buzz-phrase") in the next 10 years, then how come HSUS hasn't wreckammended to Congress that all fishing in the seas be made Illegal? Perhaps the chefs own dogs, and gives to the HSUS, so it wouldn't be right to offend a donor over raping the oceans fish, Well, golly, let's outlaw automobiles and petroleum while we're at it. needs to research this paragraph more before presenting assumptions as facts.
HSUS is against pollution.
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/B...of-Non-Party-Humane-Society-International.pdf