Need Help - got 10 min - captured snake!!!

[Telionis]

Nub questions for snake experts... My parents seem to have captured a small milk snake and are wondering what to do with it. I'm leaving in 10 min to help them remove it.

Questions.

1. Is it true that moving a snake more than 100 feet or so is dangerous for the guy!?! Why should it be, he's still in the exact same enviroment, or is it because he won't be able to find any well known shelters?

BUT - we have a resident black rat snake that is MUCH bigger... should I be worried about the blackie predating the milk snake if I don't take him far enough?

So How far should I displace him?

2. Should I offer him some water or something - he'll have been trapped in a plastic box in 75 degree weather for at least an hour by the time I get there? Or will this frighten him more - should I try to absolutally minimize contact with the guy, drop him off and run?

thanks,

 

[KatieL]

Well, I can't answer all of your questions, but I can hopefully shed some light on the first one.

Moving snakes from their current locations can indeed cause problems with them finding shelters - although, it is generally in the case of hibernation sites when this is the worst.

For instance, I know that the Massasauga rattlesnakes that I worked with cannot be moved from their original locations because they would then be unable to successfully find hibernacula sites in the fall. With these guys, during their first fall (soon after they "hatch," and I use the term loosely) they follow the scent trails of adult rattlesnakes to a particular hibernacula site. They then kind of imprint on the area, and come back to that same hibernacula site (although, not necessarily the same burrow) every year. Supposedly they have a mental map in their head of their home range, and they know where to go for food/shelter/hibernacula sites and even good places to hang out when they are gravid and need more sun. If you move them from their homes, their maps are now obsolete, and they are just lost... Sort of like if someone just plopped you down in the middle of China, and you had to find a place to spend the night, and a place to get food, ect. Sure, you may get lucky and accidentally stumble upon something/someplace that is useful and can sustain you, but then again, you may not.

I know, the question you are thinking: why can't the adult snakes you move just follow the scent trails of other adults in the new area to find a hibernacula site? No one knows, but apparently they just do not. One other thought is that perhaps there may not be any other adults snakes (of the same species) in the new area anyway.

Anyway, thats enough rambling out of me. Hopefully you found some of the information useful, even though it didn't get to you before you left.

Best of luck with the little milksnake!

 

[Telionis]

thanks for the info

I hope I didn't move him too far... took him about 100-150 feet from where he was... left him on the edge of the forrest.

I'm quite sure the large resident is a black rat
(looks just like:
http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/StratfordLandingES/Ecology/mpages/black_rat_snake.htm), almost certainly different head than a black racer, and no sign of bluish tint at all. It and probably its relatives have been living in the immediate area for at least 15 years, maybe 20 - they're almost like pets: the current member of that family knows my mom well enough (from her gardening near it regularly) to literally ignore her when she tries to move him today. For example he sometimes wraps around her plastic flower watering thingie and refuses to leave. I guess he's lazy or likes the warmth of it and doesn't want to move, so when she needs it to water the flowers, triest to move him gently, touching him or sweeping at him with a broom, he looks at her and then relaxes again around the thing - it's hillarious). Too bad he wasn't so active or living so near to the house when I was living with them (though we regularly saw what must have been one of his parents [no idea if it's actually a he btw or if this is the same guy, 20 years old itself and is the same one I've been seeing since I was 5]).

The black is also spectacular at climbing... he unfortunatly got on the roof and hung his body over the overhang, and got the entire family of birds that lived in a plant hanging from the overhang - I couldn't believe it (my mom was not amused)... he must have thought that out too... "I'll go over to the other side of the house where I can get onto the roof, then come back to this side, and hang over, balance myself on the rim of the plant pot and then grab the birds... back up and climb down the other side of the houes again"

As for the milk, I doubt the blackie would have to even constrict the milk snake we caught, I bet it'd be easily swallowed even when coiled up into a ball making itself as big as possible... you guys think the black snake would take the opportunity if presented? We had a cute little garter snake in the area, and at some point it disappeared and a day later the black had taken that area as it's lair (which is where it is now), I'm guessing the little garter got the shaft, and as such, the milk was probably in danger.

I had to displace the little milk, because I couldn't leave it in the house, (not the first time we've found juveniles getting in, we can't figure out how they do so) and the entire perimeter of the house is patrolled by the black rat. We see the black rat almost daily, and the area where the milk probably got into the house is where the black's lair must be or at least very near by (20 feet?).

I offered the little guy water, but it was quite upset apparently and didn't seem interested in drinking or doing anything but threatening me (it didn't run away, stood it's ground and was impressivly aggressive). It also rattled its tail like mad, apparently imitating a rattler trying to fool me. Maybe I should have left it alone with the water, but I didn't want to prolong it's fear trapped in the plastic box. I left it in the grass and within 10 minutes, when I came back to check, it was gone.

Are they usually so aggressive? I imagine if I picked this little guy up he'd be swinging every which way trying to get away until it passed out of exhaustion, - no way would he be docile, even after an hour of struggling I'd suspect. I can't imagine how Crocodile Hunter or any of those snake tamer guys can do this, the snakes they grab only struggle for a few moments before giving up.
_______________
Very cool beasties snakes are, though that little guy really didn't like me I think. My parents have to warn all the people that work on their house or house sit and watch their dogs (which completely ignore the snake for some reason), to NOT hurt our friendly snakes (or any of the other wildlife of course).

 

[KatieL]

Hehehe, yep, those little guys put on quite a show. Milk snakes are known for being rather aggressive, and every time I've run into one (a non-captive one at least) it has tail rattled. They act a lot tougher than they actually are.

Also, I'm sure moving the little guy a few hundred feet is fine. I know (with the massasaugas at least) the general rule of thumb is not to move them any more than a mile at MOST. And it is preferred that you only move them 500 feet or less if possible. I would assume things would not be too much different for other snakes as well.

I'll let someone else answer your rat snake questions, as I am not all that experienced with them.

 

[Guenhwyvar]

He should be JUST fine. I've encountered MANY black rats around where I live...they survive, even flourish. They are hardy little guys. As a general rule whenever I've encountered the black rats out in the wild they haven't been OVERLY aggressive. There have been a select few, but usually they aren't that bad. I generally just pick them up and move them with my hands to a new location when I find them. They often calm after a minute or so. :shrugs: But they places where I've found them have been a high traffic area so they could have been a little more used to human contact than most.