New Colonies

[psyhodad]

I've decided to try a few mice colonies and see what happens. I did my homework and read whatever I could find on caring for and breeding mice. I went to one of the more reputable pet shops here and purchased 12 females and 3 males. The kid at the store asked me if I wanted pet mice or feeders. Since the price difference was almost double I opted for the feeder mice.

I get home and open the box of mice and start sorting the mice into their respective homes. I couldn't believe it. Some of these mice were so emaciated that I wouldn't have used them for a feeder. One was so bad I thought it was dead. She was just in the corner of the box completely hunched over and you could see all her ribs. It's probably going to take me weeks just to nurse some of them back to normal weight before I even attempt to let those females breed. I thought about returning them to the store but decided that they would do better and have a better home with us, if they live. All of them started eating and drinking as soon as I put them in their new cages, even the real skinny one. Hopefully she'll make it.

I am going to call the pet shop tomorrow and talk to owner and tell her she should be ashamed of herself. Just because they're feeders it doesn't mean that they don't need to be fed and watered, that is just wrong.

Anyway I don't expect much of anything to happened soon. They're all probably suffering from different levels of malnutrition at this point. I bought them Mazuri for their main chow and a mixed grain feed, formulated for mice, to help get them jump started. At this point the worst that can happened is we have 15 pet mice to add to our menagerie.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Lee

 

[Baba-Lou]

I can't believe that. I had a hamster when I was 5 that my dad bought for me like that. He called ASPCA immediatly and they were closed for a week straight so all the animals could get some what better. But he lived a healthy 3 years.

 

[psyhodad]

I going to make some calls on Monday and see what I can do.

Skinny doesn't look to well. She's just hunched over in her cage with her head down. Looks like her respiration is fast and shallow. Doesn't look good.

 

[Baba-Lou]

I'd say put some fresh veggies in and a few pieces of dog food if you have it. and their food and When I find sick mice like the one your describing I put a bowl mixed with broccoli, Dog food, Mouse Food, a Lil' bit of extra virgin olive oil and an itty bitty amount of peanut butter. and some grains if you have those things. and water and their multivitamin what ever you choose to mix that in. The kind I have i can mix it in either their food or water. But i choose their water. I also put them in their own cage so they can get way better. But if you have several that are skinny and have a rapid, shallow breathing. just leave them alone for a bit. they should get better over a few days. if not tell us and we'll help you as best to out abilities.

 

[Taceas]

So typical. =(

That's the number one reason when you're going to start your own breeding colonies, you buy "pet" mice instead of feeders. Feeders are typically feeders for a reason. Although pet mice around here from the one petstore that sells feeder mice are only about $.50 cents more expensive than adult feeder mice.

One of the best things you can do when buying mice for future breeders is to stand and watch them in the cage. See which ones look and act healthy. Avoid any who wipe at their nose a lot or just act lethargic.

If you want healthy stock, you have to buy healthy starters. Feeder mice are kept in cramped conditions that aren't kept as clean regularly and don't usually have fresh food/water available at all times. Cramped, ill-kept conditions breed disease like wildfire.

A few friends of mine coming home from petstores with feeders for their snakes and opening the bag to find icky mice, just further bolsters that you should always look at what you're getting before leaving.

Even if you do get them back to good size and weight, they're probably not going to do much for you on the breeding end. It takes a lot of nutrition for mice to have lots of healthy babies, and if they aren't healthy, the babies won't be healthy or plentiful more than likely. Not to mention, most adult feeder mice are retired breeders themselves, just awaiting their day at execution.

So I would take them back to the store and get a refund. Clean your cage/contents thoroughly with warm bleach water and rinse well before introducing any new stock. Take it from me. I bought one single male "feeder" mouse because I liked his color. A year later, most of my 100 mice were diseased and non-producing.

 

[psyhodad]

Thanks for all the help and information. I honestly didn't realize that there would be that much difference between the two. I figured the only difference between pet/feeder would be color.

Misty, you said that after you introduced that one feeder into your colony a year later they were diseased and non producing. Do you know what caused that?

 

[nsmar4211]

If you continually get unhealthy animals from a petstore, call your local USDA office (or county extension office-they'll get you the number). There's also a website to file a complaint. Talking to the store owners won't do you any good, they *know* the condition of their animals. I had issues with a local feed store selling me maggoty feed (no joke) and no matter how many times I complained they kept doing it, claiming they had no problems (oh yea, then what are these bugs?!?!. The USDA takes it very seriously if a pet store/feed store doesn't care take of their stock (live or not) as I found out- and they will leave your name out of it if you want to remain anonymous. Feeders or not, they still have to be healthy. Actually, that's the first thing I look at-I won't buy fish from a store with unhealthy feeder goldfish, or anylive animal from a store with unhealthy feeder animals. They use the same equipment (feeding/cleaning) on both types, and most disease are very contagious.
Keep those mice far away from any other animals (I quarrantine in the garage myself) until they are all healthy! Good luck with them....

 

[TandJ]

Sounds like most of them are suffering from an upper respitory infection, baytril (sp?) may help, probably from poor husbantry practices, which seems to make the biggest differnece in a colony. As pointed out by the other esteemed members, feeders are feeders for a reason, because they are breed for that. Although I can't remember Mom and Pop stores with sickly mice, I see it more often in the chain stores, with the fast breathing and porfin running noses.

Something that was never mentioned, is if you are introducing new animals, quarenteen them first to stop the spread of possible disease, which is something that should be practiced more often, on all animals or fish. Why risk it with possible dramatic results like Misty recieved..

Regards

 

[psyhodad]

:-offtopic There's another pet store in town that carries mainly reptiles. I get my ft mice there ($1 a pink) because he raises his own, and up until now it wasn't cost effective for me to buy in bulk.

Well we were talking and he said that he's been breeding corns for almost 30 years and he double and triple clutches his females every year. So I asked him about the health of his snakes. Without any hesitation he flat out told me that he was a puppy mill for snakes and his business was selling snakes. If the females died he said he would just replaced them with another one. I bought my first and last corn from him and after he told me that.

I'm going to take Misty's advice and exchange the feeders for pet quality mice and consider this another learning experience.

I will check into the USDA here. At least if they make contact with the pet store maybe they'll throw more food in their cage and water them more regularly.

 

[JenC]

We used to breed gerbils, and when they would get respiratory infections i talked to a profesional gerbil breeder and she had said that when hers get sick, she gave them Ornacycline (or tetracycline) in an eye dropper. Its in the BIRD section of the pet store and if you buy in tablets you can smash them, add them to water and give them some.

 

[TandJ]

Lee, let me talk to the better half, maybe I can help you with some mice for a colony. I am 45 mins to an hour from Baker, I might be able to get you started with a healthy colony...

Regards

 

[Taceas]

I believe what happened to me was Mycoplasmosis. A bacteria that causes chronic respiratory disease (CRD). Do a google search for it, and you can learn quite a bit.

Suffice it to say its a bacterium that is present in all mice and rats, kind of like a cold is to humans. Each colony has their own "brand" of it and they're healthy. If you get a healthy looking mouse from another breeder/store who has a different "brand", neither the mouse nor your colony is resistant to it. So you have some that don't do well, and possibly die.

I bought the mouse, as their feeder mice looked quite healthy. I brought him home, kept him isolated for 3-4 weeks and introduced him to 5 new females to set up a new colony on my bottom most tub in my rack. Things went fine for a few weeks, everyone was pregnant, and he looked really lethargic, humped over, thin, and wheezing and wiping at his nose. I put him down and fed him off. The females gave birth and then they slowly started to go down the same road. And it just progressed from mouse to mouse, colony to colony up the rack for over a year.

I thought they'd have built up a resistance to it by this point, and some seem to have done so. But they're few and far between. Right now I've got my last healthy looking mice isolated in a 30gal aquarium on the other side of the garage. The new breeder mice I got from from a local breeder are in my rack that's been sterilized twice with hot bleach water, and then set outside overnight in sub-zero temps, with all new tubs, water bottles, and food.

Up until that fateful male, I'd actually introduced 3 male mice from different stock. Two were "pet mice" from the same store as the diseased feeder, and one was from Petsmart. None ever came down with the respiratory illness nor passed anything on to my colony.

My new breeder mice being from the same guy I got my original starter colony from 3 years ago, I'm hoping they're pretty resilient like the first batch I received. I really don't like all white mice, and a few of my snakes (BP especially) likes colored mice. So we'll see how gutsy I want to be.

I never treated my mice with antibiotics, for the same reasons I don't take them unecessarily myself. If not done correctly, they do more harm than good. I'm more of the school of thought its going to kill who it kills, and whoever lives is that much stronger to pass on the resistance. Plus, I don't know if its safe to feed to snakes after having been medicated.

Take them back and raise hell even if it doesn't do any good, at least it'd make me feel better. I wouldn't want those as feeders for my snakes much less for breeders. Snake food should be just as healthy as the food we eat, imho anyways. And make sure you clean everything thoroughly before you introduce new mice. Anything associated with the cage, the lid, the bottle, the table it sat on, tools used, bowls, etc.

Let us know how batch #2 makes out. =)

 

[TandJ]

We have some young males and females from two seperate colonies. I am certain we could round a few males and four or five females to get you started no problems. From what it sounds like here, I have so called pet qaulity mice. Nice weight, healthty, active and breeding like.. well mice..

Like Tac said, I defianatly suggest a bleaching or sterilization with hot water, not just warm water to take care of the active germs.

Regards

 

[psyhodad]

Lee, let me talk to the better half, maybe I can help you with some mice for a colony. I am 45 mins to an hour from Baker, I might be able to get you started with a healthy colony...

Regards

Aw TandJ that's a nice offer. Where abouts are you, Barstow?

I called the pet shop to see about returning the feeders and they were pretty accommodating. When I got there I asked if I could pick them out. They actually took me in their back room. From what I could see all the breeders back there had food and water although they were pretty crowded. My estimate about 50+ mice to a 27 quart sterlite. These all looked a lot better, full bodies, shinny coats and open and clear eyes. I got quite a few that are already pregnant too. I think I should be good to go now. It cost me another twenty four bucks though.

I disinfected all their cages and water bottles with a weak bleach/water solution and rinsed everything really well. We'll see how it goes.

Are you going to the Pomona show in two weeks?

Lee

 

[psyhodad]

Things went fine for a few weeks, everyone was pregnant, and he looked really lethargic, humped over, thin, and wheezing and wiping at his nose.

Take them back and raise hell even if it doesn't do any good, at least it'd make me feel better.

Let us know how batch #2 makes out. =)

That sounds like what a few of these looked liked although I didn't see them wiping at their noses. None the less anyone could see that they were sick.

I'm sorry to hear about your colony that had to be tough. I've learned a lot from you in the last twenty four hours. Thank you.

These new mice are pretty cool even if they did cost more money. They're black, brown, black and white, and brown and white. I think the kids like them more too because they started naming them. LOL

I'll let everyone know how these guys do.

Lee

 

[TandJ]

Yeah, I am north of Barstow. The way I drive it would take at least 45 mins for me to get to Baker. Unfortuanatly, no I won't be attending Pomona, although I would like to, but this time of the year puts a big ole crunch on the wallet and travelling for me. Let me know if you are intrested in another colony, and as you pass through my area on the way home I could meet up with you. If you want half a dozen whitey juvi's, I would let you have them for $1.50 a piece, your just going to need a carrier of some sort. I can see the CHP pulling up in the parking lot wondering what kind of a deal is going on.. *lol* Although because of my remote area, I or my better half have meet suppliers etc at the local fuel stops. Let me know if your going to be intrested..

Regards..