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Okay, getting fed up here

ShenziSixaxis

Sticking To The Ceiling
Had my colony for 2.5 months now. NOTHING. I heard the male mating with both the females again last night. I checked Doe A and she had a vaginal plug, Doe B didn't.

I also couldn't figure out why they were so quiet last night after that, but that's because the water bottle with a spring in it I spent 7 bucks on is leaking.



So; suggestions before I just freeze the mice or toss 'em to the cat and say the hell with it?
 
Yup, got them set up in a tub that is 6-7 inches high, and has a little bit more floor space than a 10g tank.
 
It's hard to give you any help without any information. Reading through this and other forums might shed some light on your problem. Reading into your message it sounds like they may be stressed. Set them up properly and leave them to their business. Seeing you are in Nevada, how warm are the mice?
 
Age, temps, cleanliness, enough food & water, that oughtta do it.

Do you have some pictures or something of your setup?

I would blame it on the mice not being fertile.

You're sure those just aren't fighting sounds?

I'd get another colony started, maybe it's just bad luck.
 
Have a group of 1.2, on softwood bedding from PetCo (pine, fir, and spruce) with some clay cat litter on the bottom and a bit of baking soda mixed in for odor control (which does well). Like I said, the tub is 6-8 inches tall, and about 1ft by 2ft, a bit more floor space than a 10g tank. They have two hides, a plastic rodent igloo and one hand made wooden one (popsicle sticks and non-toxic glue).

The temp, for quite a while, was getting to about 75F because of summer warmth, and last week we hit 100F outside, and I know it got to around 78F-82F for a few hours (1-3 hours at the most) for 3-4 days, but nothing higher than that, since I unplugged EVERYTHING and moved the laptop out of the room if I was using it. Typically, it's 68F-73F.

I leave the mice alone for the most part, but once or twice a day I pull the tub out of the 'drawer' its set up in (like a rack, but with a solid top) and check on them, their food, and water. Doing this since I got them, I've figured out their personalities, which might matter.

The buck is a PetCo mouse, so he's pretty docile. He'll occasionally come up to my hand if I'm testing the water bottle, spot cleaning, collecting food back into the dish (they like to dig in it and grab a piece and eat it somewhere else) or replacing food and give my hand a good sniff or lick if it smells good. He doesn't mind the occasional petting on the back, and is relaxed enough to sleep with his head under him or hanging off a hide if he's on it (think: dog).
When I got him, he was 6-8 weeks old. Add 2.5 months and I'm guessing around 16-18 weeks now.

Doe A is a albino from a pet store that doesn't socialize their mice or rats and mostly sells them as feeders. She's a little jumpy and bites lightly occasionally, but she's a lot like the buck; curious about my hand doing stuff in there and relaxed. She has occasionally bitten me pretty hard when I'm trying to get some pieces of food, though.
Also, when I got Doe A, she appeared pregnant. She seemed to get smaller, and a month or so later she appeared pregnant again. Yet again she's gotten smaller. Is it possible she's reabsorbing the fetuses? Also, whenever the male mounts her, she generally lets him do his thing. The other night I WATCHED the two of them mate for about five minutes, only taking an occasional break for a few seconds so both of them could lick themselves.

Doe B is from the same pet store as Doe A and is a brown house mouse lookin' mouse, and super jumpy. Whenever I pick the mice up (see if something's wrong or to move them for cleaning), I scoop up the buck and Doe A in my palm with no problems, but this girl is so jumpy I have to pick her up by the tail. She avoids my hand and at just about any cost, and when she bites (which is somewhat often), I have to make sure I'm not bleeding.
Doe B has NEVER appeared pregnant, and whenever the male mounts her, she never lets him hold on for more than five seconds.

Both does were around 4wks when I got them, so they're about 14-15 wks now.


I am feeding them all a mix of this cat food and LM Animal Farms Rat and Mouse food*. They seem to like both just fine, as I regularly see them all eat a piece of each food. They all also act pretty healthy; healthier than the last mouse I had.
*
Crude Protein min 22.0%
Crude Fat min 5.0%
Crude Fiber max 5.0%
Moisture max 11.5%

Please don't make my type out the ingredients. DX


Also, I DID have the does (the buck did NO fighting) fighting for quite a bit, and now and then I'll hear them squealing about something. It's not often though.

Pictures! ::
Setup:
Buck:
Does:
 
Ah! And the tub they are in gets cleaned every 5-10 days, depending on how it's gone when food, water leakage, and waste I've missed.

Also, the last two pictures were taken on pine bedding in a holding tub when I cleaned the main one out earlier.
 
Urgh, another thing. I got a water bottle with a rubber stopper and no ball, and that is working wonders so far. I'd like to marry it.

I also got a weird water bottle that has a tiny hole that only lets water out when it's moved. I'm going to go test that one in the bathroom. I think it'll work well, though.
 
Everything looks good to me except possibly the cat food. I know lots of people don't use it, I haven't personally. They look healthy and well cared for. I don't think there is such thing as reabsorption, but they certainly eat babies if conditions aren't perfect. They'll do it regardless of how "nice" they are being to each other. They'll even eat their own.

If they're getting big and small again I'd have to guess that that's what's going on, but it sounds like you're on it too much for that. You might try separating the girls when one is going to have babies and see if there are any left over. It's usually pretty easy to catch them before they're all gone, it probably takes a whole day if they're gonna do it. I guess I'll mention again that putting 3 random adult mice together is difficult, but that's what you've got to work with for now.

Really, I'd stop pulling your hair out so much and get 3 additional mice for a different cage. Get them as small as you can and you might avoid these issues.
 
I seem to be having luck with the cat food. I do plan on doing a few experiments with how different food affects them once I have a proper rack up.

There's no way one of them could have had a litter. Like I said, I checked a few times daily and neither of them got big enough to have a little; only the albino doe looked even close to pregnant, and that was just little bulges on the sides.

I'm definitely gonna get another group going, but I'll have to do that all either at the end of a shopping trip or on a day when we don't go shopping. It's been 95F and higher outside the past two weeks, and I don't wanna shock the new mice.


I do have a question though. The does were bought at a store that gets local mice and rats in. The buck is from PetCo, who gets them from a supplier. Maybe I should try getting ALL the mice from PetCo this time? (Because I'm not spending 7 bucks for a mouse at Petsmart.)
 
The source shouldn't matter too much, but who knows? $7?! I think Petco is the place that wanted me to sign a paper saying these weren't going to be fed to snakes. Ridiculous.

You ARE having luck with the cat food? Not sure what you mean, since you haven't had any babies yet. If it were me I'd eliminate it.

I have a few documents on mouse breeding if you'd like. PM me your email address and I'll send them to ya.
 
Its either aborting or worms. I just had a female get really big like she was going to have babies right on schedule too. Then she slimmed down and yesterday I found her dead. I froze and tossed the male. No risks here. Then this afternoon I found my satin female dead, but never saw any troubles with her til I checked her over after finding her deceased, he rump had tar like stuff coming out the anus. No clue. I'm scrapping raising my own mice. My gerbils are doing fine. Had their first litter day after my clutch hatched. 6 pups, that is good for a first litter!
 
Okay, gonna get another group of mice going in the next few days. Need to drill a hole or two in another tub and buy some more water bottles. :p
And kick my dad in the butt. He needs to fix his car so my mom can run me around town.

The source shouldn't matter too much, but who knows? $7?! I think Petco is the place that wanted me to sign a paper saying these weren't going to be fed to snakes. Ridiculous.

You ARE having luck with the cat food? Not sure what you mean, since you haven't had any babies yet. If it were me I'd eliminate it.

I have a few documents on mouse breeding if you'd like. PM me your email address and I'll send them to ya.

A paper? ...jeeze, what're they gonna do, send cops to your house for abusing animals? Snakes gotta eat too! :nope:
And 7 USD is what Petsmart wanted. Petco wants 3 USD, which feels okay to me. 7 USD is probably 95% profit.

As in my mice seem healthy. Once I get a real breeding rack set up, I'm going to end up doing a few experiments with different foods. Haven't planned it out yet, but I'll be letting everyone know on this forum how it goes. :p

Will do. :D

Its either aborting or worms. I just had a female get really big like she was going to have babies right on schedule too. Then she slimmed down and yesterday I found her dead. I froze and tossed the male. No risks here. Then this afternoon I found my satin female dead, but never saw any troubles with her til I checked her over after finding her deceased, he rump had tar like stuff coming out the anus. No clue. I'm scrapping raising my own mice. My gerbils are doing fine. Had their first litter day after my clutch hatched. 6 pups, that is good for a first litter!

Ack. Never thought about parasites. I'll get the next group totally from PetCo. Makes me curious, now, about why the does seem to sleep more than they should (buck does too, but all my male rodents have been lazy old men xDD).

Gerbils?! I'mma PM you too! :crazy02:
 
You only have to sign the paper IF they won't be fed, that is so you get the health guarantee. They do not include it in feeders. At least not at mine. At mine you ask for mice and they say "Pet or food?" If pet you fill out a paper, if food, no paper.

Gerbils are great pets, but breeding takes patience and care. They are nothing like mice. Got your pm and replied.
 
Each PetCo and PetSmart and other chain stores lke them are run by different management. So while some stuff might fall under the chains policy a lot of stuff like selling feeder mice vs pet mice is up to store management.
 
I tried to read through all that. I'm sorry, I'm tired and can't. Not to mention that I'm on my way to a funeral in about a half hour.

Christine and I, have been breeding, raising, showing, selling, freezing, holding, poking, etc rodents for about 18-19 years now. Since we were in our mid teens. I'm dumbfounded about how much effort is being put into a small colony of 1.2. That's amazing!

I'm not saying your doing anything wrong. So don't get upset with me. I'm just saying that all that effort isn't needed.

If I were you, I would kybosh the cat food. It does have good protein in it, but alot of other "stuff" that may not be so good. Try sticking to a good protein diet of nuts, fruits and seed with the occasional food scrap.

Also, how much light are these guys getting? Some times if they aren't getting enough natural light, that affects what is going on. Another thing that could be happening is female dominance. When they are still pecking out the order, one female may eat the babies of another. Then there is that whole absorbing the litter before they are born thing. That usually happens if there is a vitamin or nutrient deficiency.

Then there is the possibility that the females could be having false pregnancies or the male is infertile. That stuff just happens.

Honestly, because of the relative inexpense of mice and how quickly they mature, I think your just better off starting over. Get yourself several young mice. Another 1.2 trio and see how things go. I bet you have better luck the second time around.

Wayne
 
Honestly, because of the relative inexpense of mice and how quickly they mature, I think your just better off starting over. Get yourself several young mice. Another 1.2 trio and see how things go. I bet you have better luck the second time around.
Wayne

I'd probably go this route as well. I had problems with my first colony that wouldn't give me babies for anything. When I got my 2nd colony the babies started coming, now I currently have about 25-30 youngin's of various ages between 2 colonies, I'm rolling in mice! (well, not literally, then I'd have dead mice).

The hardest thing seemed to be getting started. But once you get it going it's great.
 
I'm rolling in mice! (well, not literally, then I'd have dead mice).

On a mostly unrelated tangent, this statement reminded me of a time at a reptile shop I worked in when one of the guys was hurrying into the back to get something, a loose mouse ran in front of him, and he slipped on it, skidded, and fell in the guts! It was lovely.
 
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