Platinums . . .

[jazzgeek]

Until those who have truly "put the time in" and are the ones who've made snakes and the internet what we have today, they sit down over a seafood and steak dinner, laugh at ALL the commotion and dingdongery the hundreds (thousands) of us new breed cyberherper's cause, maybe toast the few that stick around just long enough not to make total butts of themselves and FINALLY say "Well, they are called X and Y and Z....."....

I don't care what they're called. I just want in on the seafood and steak dinner. :grin01:

regards,
jazz

 

[TandJ]

I will take the steak, that damn seafood messes with my gout to much.. Its about time people picked up on the satire and mockery that lurks about.. I intended this to be funny..*LOL* Or was I being way to cryptic again?? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Regards.. Tim fo T and J

 

[cka]

I'm always close to being somewhere in the ball park of "tongue in cheek"iness, but I'll go one step further. One a year, around the dead of winter when all is quiet, Santa Kathy goes over her list of ALL the good and bad little morphs out there, and gives 'em all a name. Why not? She is the Queen :bowdown:

 

[Rich Z]

Heck many names that seem to have stuck were probably never intended to be a "commercial" name anyway. "Milk Snake Phase" still lurks around even though I pretty much dropped it from usage years ago. I started using "GoldDust" internally simply because it was easier to write down on breeding records than "interesting Amber-like corn from Mike Shiver". I'll probably regret that it stuck after GoldDust Blood Reds become common, which would likely be more appropriate just being called "GoldDusts" themselves.

I have never taken to the name "Phantom" and probably never will.

Sometimes I might have a name in mind that I strive to create a cultivar that matches it. For instance, I once started a project to create Amber Aztecs with the goal of applying the name of "Camo Corns" to. But I stopped the project midstream. :shrugs:

As for there being different "camps", heck who cares? There will always be at least one person who disagrees with anything someone else comes up with, that immediately creates two camps right there.

It's all just silly, if you ask me. EVERY cultivar we are now working with will eventually diverge in appearance anyway after selective breeding begins creating subdivisions. And each of those subdivisions will likely have separate names applied to them. Then there will be the nearly unlimited number of combinations that can be applied as well. This will NEVER get less complex than it already is now. And there really is no feasible way to UNCOMPLICATE it in the future. Heck we can't even uncomplicate the PAST, much less the present and the future. Even today, I STILL have people asking me what combinations are used to make a Lavender.

Personally, I don't see how it is possible that ANYONE will EVER have the AUTHORITY to control what someone else calls their snakes. Someone can only control what THEY decide to call them themselves.

 

[Drizzt80]

I think in this case, since these look so much like phantom

I've seen this statement made a couple of times here in this thread and elsewhere . . . I spent quite a bit of time last night searching for pictures of phantoms. Didn't find too many to be honest, quite a few hatchling pics which are difficult to compare due to the change, but did find this thread today. I beg to differ, and also realize this is merely two snakes that are getting compared, but there is quite a bit of difference between the Phantom and Phantom Anery/Platinum posted here:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46829&highlight=diffused

For whatever reason Phantoms themselves are not too common . . . there's even a couple of threads lamenting that fact . . . and Phantom Anery's? Well, I only know of 5 for sure specimens. Sounds pretty rare (ie. Platinum) to me. Match that with the brightness of the silver coloration?! :shrugs:

D80

 

[Weebonilass]

I've seen this statement made a couple of times here in this thread and elsewhere . . . I spent quite a bit of time last night searching for pictures of phantoms. Didn't find too many to be honest, quite a few hatchling pics which are difficult to compare due to the change, but did find this thread today. I beg to differ, and also realize this is merely two snakes that are getting compared, but there is quite a bit of difference between the Phantom and Phantom Anery/Platinum posted here:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46829&highlight=diffused

For whatever reason Phantoms themselves are not too common . . . there's even a couple of threads lamenting that fact . . . and Phantom Anery's? Well, I only know of 5 for sure specimens. Sounds pretty rare (ie. Platinum) to me. Match that with the brightness of the silver coloration?! :shrugs:

D80

Thanks for the link, Brent One comment about that thread though...Even finding a nice Charcoals is hard.. finding a nice charcoal without anery in the background... even harder... sigh...

 

[SnakeCreations]

For whatever reason Phantoms themselves are not too common . . . there's even a couple of threads lamenting that fact . . . and Phantom Anery's? Well, I only know of 5 for sure specimens. Sounds pretty rare (ie. Platinum) to me. Match that with the brightness of the silver coloration?! :shrugs:

D80

I think this is the point I was trying to make. That the number of phantoms are strictly related to the source..... mine is Serpenco, I have an 06 and an 07, both females. So, I can post a pic of my 06 - she's getting quite big, but...... what if she's an Anery Phantom, or Charocoal Ghost or Hypo Anery Charcoal thinngy?

Thats the fun of it all :laugh01: at least for me

Enjoy!!

-Tonya

Oh btw - thats her as a hatchling in my avatar....

 

[FunkyRes]

Breed one of these platinums to a phantom that is known to not carry the anery allele.
The result should be phantom het anery.
Line breed the result to each other.

1/4 of the young should be platinum, 3/4 phantom - and they will have identical family tree.
See if you can tell them apart visually.

 

[patm1313]

Well, I was thinking about "Platinum", and it makes a lot of sense. We have Gold (Golddust) and Platinum corns, so all we need are silver and bronze ones.

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Breed one of these platinums to a phantom that is known to not carry the anery allele.
The result should be phantom het anery.
Line breed the result to each other.

1/4 of the young should be platinum, 3/4 phantom - and they will have identical family tree.
See if you can tell them apart visually.

I have a clutch "cooking" in the incubator right now. I will guarantee you that I will be able to visually identify each and every one. The coloration of a "Platinum" compared to a "Phantom" is almost night and day. The second my clutch pips I will be taking pictures just to prove this fact. I don't think breeding siblings twice removed (F2's) will have any bearing on the coloration then if you outcrossed the same line with new blood except to make the morph stand out even more. If you were to continue line-breeding them you will only be intensifying any traits the morph will exhibit by making them even easier to identify. I will even go so far as to say even if I bred my stock to any other "Platinum" based Corn (either in het or homo form) I will still be able to visually identify each and every one of them as well.

Back to the original topic:
I would like to know what people think the qualifications would be that one needs to have in order to name a "NEW" morph?
I would like to see what people think before I add to the conversation further. Thanks in advance for your patience and your input.
Jay

 

[Weebonilass]

Back to the original topic:
I would like to know what people think the qualifications would be that one needs to have in order to name a "NEW" morph?
I would like to see what people think before I add to the conversation further. Thanks in advance for your patience and your input.
Jay

Personally, I would have to say the person needs to have a successful breeding program... to name it, he should be able putting them on the ground consistently... at least as consistently as one can with a new morph

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I would like to know what people think the qualifications would be that one needs to have in order to name a "NEW" morph?
I would like to see what people think before I add to the conversation further. Thanks in advance for your patience and your input.
Jay

Basically to me all you need is to have actually come up with a new morph and proof of this to convince the naysayers - and there WILL be naysayers, most of whom will be crying hybrid.
By necessity it means you will have had to successfully bred snakes and kept records.
I don't think those "oops I found eggs with my snake is it a girl?" people would know if it was a new morph anyway.
And you need the imagination for coming up with a catchy name.
Qualifications I don't think matter include how long you have bred, whether or not you consider yourself an expert, what forum you are on, what car you drive, or who your buddies are.
And lastly just because you think it's a good name doesn't mean it is - again there WILL be naysayers. And people who think they already "own" that name will also come out of the woodwork.
I'm speaking general terms here nothing against platinum or any other name.

 

[TandJ]

Basically to me all you need is to have actually come up with a new morph and proof of this to convince the naysayers - and there WILL be naysayers, most of whom will be crying hybrid.

There are many naysayers around.. I am completely poking fun at this, as who is to say only certain people are right to choose the "morph name".. If anyone noticed I am completely poking fun at the community with Creamsickos for my hybirds I am hoping to produce this year.. I really could care less what the supposed trade name is.. As long as I know whats involved in the animal the name means crap.. Of course i think there is some sense of pride or prestiege for someone hoping to have started some funky name ... IE Plasma.. Blllleeeeeechhh.. Guess I missed the meeting on that one to.. *LOL*

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I'm rethinking this one part of my answer, I suppose how long you have bred snakes for does matter to some extent, if Kathy Love or Don S or Rich Z wanted to call a new morph something they would certainly have the added oomph because of who they are and would probably win out against someone a bit less well known if the other person had a different idea...

I agree though that the whole thing does get comical Tim. Sheesh, a lot of people like corns and don't even HAVE internet or care about that stuff

 

[Rich Z]

One thing I would advise before trying to put a new name on a new creation is to wait until you have seen a fair number of ADULTS before doing so. Naming something (at least descriptively) based on the appearance of a baby or juvenile is just not a wise thing to do, in my opinion. There will also be the issue of having to contend with coming up with a name that would plausibly cover the range of variations seen in the first generation of the new line. Creating a name based on a single existing animal, of course, is certainly not a wise thing to do at all.

One situation which seems to be developing lately is some sort of race to name something new regardless of the advisability of doing so before those necessary ducks have all lined up in a row.

 

[Drizzt80]

Breed one of these platinums to a phantom that is known to not carry the anery allele.
The result should be phantom het anery.
Line breed the result to each other.

1/4 of the young should be platinum, 3/4 phantom - and they will have identical family tree.
See if you can tell them apart visually.

Be my guest, noone's stopping you. 3 of your (only) 5 posts in the last 24 hours (when you also signed up . . . oh, and sorry, past 27 hours) have been in this thread alone. Seems as though you have a pretty important stake in this conversation since it enticed you to sign up here and join the discussion. Or am I wrong on that note? Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong I suppose.

But then we all know that line-breeding will change the resulting look of the offspring down the road. Will that create brighter Phantoms or duller Phantom Anery/Platinums? Or neither? Seems to create better looking Candy Canes (a fine example of line breeding) . . . of course they're just selectively bred Amels. We're talking about a confirmed genetic difference between the two (Phantoms and Phantom/Anery's) which so far seem to have a difference phenotypically.

I made the assumption that grandma P was just a representation of what Phantom was supposed to look like regardless of the fact I've not seen a brighter Phantom around. :shrugs: You have one hiding somewhere?

D80

 

[Weebonilass]

I'm rethinking this one part of my answer, I suppose how long you have bred snakes for does matter to some extent, if Kathy Love or Don S or Rich Z wanted to call a new morph something they would certainly have the added oomph because of who they are and would probably win out against someone a bit less well known if the other person had a different idea...

I would disagree only in the case if those folks tried to rename something that they weren't actively breeding. If they had projects that they were actively breeding, I'd say they would have some added oomph. Couldn't imagine any of those three trying to play heavy on something that they didn't have a vested interest in though

 

[El Jefe]

One situation which seems to be developing lately is some sort of race to name something new regardless of the advisability of doing so before those necessary ducks have all lined up in a row.

Ain't that the truth!!!

It's pretty interesting the number of names you see cropping up everywhere to describe 'new' snakes.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I would disagree only in the case if those folks tried to rename something that they weren't actively breeding. If they had projects that they were actively breeding, I'd say they would have some added oomph. Couldn't imagine any of those three trying to play heavy on something that they didn't have a vested interest in though

The thing though, is the three people I mentioned, well I just don't think they would be the types to make a mountain out of a molehill and try to have the final say about a morph they weren't even working on.
Sure there are probably people out there that would. To me that is just a sign of having some deeper problems if your ego is so fragile that you would take offense about not getting your way on a corn snake morph name. You just can't control everybody else and what they want to call something, no matter how much you wish you could.
I don't think I will ever be able to name a new morph since I can't afford to buy a lot of new cutting edge stuff, getting lucky on the one het cinder (ashy? Doesn't that kind of prove me wrong anyway?) is probably as close as I will get.
But if I did name a morph and it didn't catch on would I lose sleep on it? Heck no. A rose by any other name would be just as sweet - as long as I could sell it :smash:.

 

[FunkyRes]

Be my guest, noone's stopping you. 3 of your (only) 5 posts in the last 24 hours (when you also signed up . . . oh, and sorry, past 27 hours) have been in this thread alone. Seems as though you have a pretty important stake in this conversation since it enticed you to sign up here and join the discussion. Or am I wrong on that note? Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong I suppose.

I've been aware of this forum for some time, just never bother to register.
The reason I posted in this thread is solely because it seemed that maybe the name was already in use, so I just wanted to advise the OP to that - so he could contact Chuck and find out. I like the name, btw, and am of the opinion that he can call his creation whatever he wants - though I personally prefer it when a name in use isn't used.

As far as doing the experiment myself to see if there is a phenotype difference - I have an '07 Charcoal female and will be breeding her to a ghost just to test her genotype - but I have other breeding plans for her first, so that won't be done until her third breeding season. Anyway - that should at least give me normals that are hets for the needed components of Platinum. But I doubt I'll ever make one myself, at least knowingly - I may breed some of the offspring to try and make a phantom, but I'm not sure I'll even do that, mostly I just want to test her genotype for the more common allele's, as I know nothing about her except that she expresses charcoal.

But then we all know that line-breeding will change the resulting look of the offspring down the road.

Which is kind of my point. These are beautiful snakes, but I don't see anything that is different enough from any other phantom to distinguish them beyond just normal line variations that occur within any morph.

By creating phantom het anery and line breeding the syblings, a visual difference that can distinguish them accurately then can not be attributed to them being from different lines.