"Proven" = ?, exactly

[desertanimal]

I'm sure the answer to this question is in a book, but I have no books at the moment, and I don't recall the answer to this question coming up anytime recently.

Is a snake "proven" after it produces what appear to be viable eggs, or is it only "proven" once you've hatched live offspring from it?

 

[beaniebopps]

I actually don't know the answer to that, good question. Anyone?

 

[toyah]

Personally, I would think of a snake of mine as proven fertile after I've seen fertile eggs with veins growing in them.

Saying that, I certainly wouldn't buy or sell a snake as proven up until the point that someone's hatched live offspring from eggs it laid or sired.

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

proven means to me that a female has laid eggs and hatched babies, male = fertile eggs from the females he was bred to that lead to babies... but.....

in some cases I think proven means that its proven to be a snake! LOL Just depends on how honest is the person you are dealing with. We have all seen a few threads where someone had bought a set of 'proven' animals only for there to be 2 females or 2 males.

 

[El Jefe]

For what it is worth.....I don't label mine proven until I see little snakes. Eggs must go to term before I'll slap that label on.

 

[desertanimal]

Thanks, all! That's what I needed to know!

 

[Jeff Linkchorst]

I think it might mean the hets also.

 

[cornmorphs]

For what it is worth.....I don't label mine proven until I see little snakes. Eggs must go to term before I'll slap that label on.

thats prettyt much how i do it, but at the same time the 'proven' thing winds me up..
if its got a penis (or two lol) then that proves its male, if it lays eggs that proves its female..
i know thats not how its looked at, but it should be. maybe another phrase should be made up once you know that snakes have produced actual hatchlings.

 

[Lynnea]

In the world of dog breeding, a stud is "proven" when offspring are produced. IMO, it seems that is the same thing.

 

[cornmorphs]

i get ya, i just dont like it.
i look at it different, for me to be proven is what sex it is, for what the rest of the world says is once it produces offspring.
i know i have to go with what the rest of the world says, doesnt mean i have to like it.
oooh, that sounds stroppy lol.. sorry, its not ment to be

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

For what it is worth.....I don't label mine proven until I see little snakes. Eggs must go to term before I'll slap that label on.

Agreed. Even if eggs are laid, I don't consider them proven until there are actual babies pipping out.

 

[rolandslf]

Ok, let me throw a spanner in the works here.
I have always taken "proven" to mean that with breeding trials a certain "morph" can be proven to carry a certain "gene" and that through selective breeding that particular morph can be used to produce a certain strain of offspring.
I do however agree with the sentiment that only on seeing babies wriggling around can a pair of breeders be proven successfull.
Just my two bits worth. Sorry if not all the terminology is exactly correct, but I have tried to explain my concept of the word "proven".

Ciao

 

[Nanci]

Ok, Roland, but for the gene to have been "proven," babies would have had to have been produced, so the snake is "proven" to produce offspring, too!

My Bacon Snake is "proven," although I don't know what I'm going to do with him! I just thought a het opal stripe for $85 seemed like a bargain! Oh, did that little purchase set off an avalanche. Well, his mail order bride is up to 11 grams now, from seven. I wonder how long male snakes stay fertile?

 

[rolandslf]

I definitely agree with what you say.
As to how long a male remains fertile all I can say is that my male Amel is eight years old and this last season covered three females and I had about a ninety four percent hatch rate. Not bad for an old man hey.

Ciao

 

[Mysfitz]

proven can mean many things, i think it's just easier to clarify what proven means to you.

proven male/female
proven for ? genes
proven breeder etc

if it's not listed explained, ask.

 

[mike17l]

Until today I would have said that if a female lays "good" eggs she is proven. But I found my last egg from one of my chocolate emoryi sweating today, so I guess that she is unproven. Ill have to change my definition to having hatched neonates from a females "good" eggs.