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Puffy head and vomiting?

D

Danadae

New member
Hi folks, I need some opinions on what's happening to our snake. He's about 1.5 years old and we've been feeding him every week the appropriate sized mice. He's always been an excellent feeder but 3 weeks ago he threw up his mouse 2 days after eating it. We waited 3 or 4 days and gave him another which he ate without any problem and did not throw up. Then on his last feeding 8 days ago he threw up again 2 days after eating. So he threw up, ate one 4 days later without issue, then threw the next one up a week later 2 days after feeding. Now his head has been looking puffy for the last few days and his mouth is slightly open too. Have a look at these pics.



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Is this normal? I read that i need to wait 8 days or more before feeding him a small meal. I also bought some NutriBac to put on his next pinkie or mouse head when we feed him next. Should I be doing anything else?

Thanks for any help in advance!
 
Oh, one other thing:

He loves the cool side of his tank. The heated side stays at 84 and the cool side is 75. After feeding him we put him on the warm side but the next day he's always on the cool side. We even moved around his rocks to see if he just preferred one over the other but that didn't change anything. He spends almost no time on the warm side no matter what we've tried.
 
At first I thought you were describing the "brew flu", something I have had many a morning after a GREAT night out! ;-) But then I saw the pics, poor baby IS swollen. I have no idea what this is from, I hope someone chimes in on this. On the last pic it really looks like his right eye is cloudy, maybe a bad shed where the eyecap didn't come off? Maybe a corneal abrasion?

I would order some Nutri Bac from Kathy Love, she is a member here and Queen of the Corns, and I am copying protocol for regurges from a post by FrogMan for Kathy's regurge treatment.

Kathy Love FAQ's

FAQ from Kathy Love on Regurgitation Treatment

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info:
http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease,
 
It could easily be a respiratory infection.
You were already linked the information for the regurge protocol, but I want to stress again how very important it is that you handle this situation properly from this point. Feeding him so soon after a regurge is a VERY bad idea. Now that he has regurge twice this could be a turn for the worse. Get him to a good reptile vet for the possible infection and don't feed him again for two weeks! At least!! And then tiny tiny meals.
 
I have no idea what would cause the swollen head like that. I wasn't aware that RIs could make them look so swollen around the head, altho I have heard of them having a puffy throat from an RI. The open mouth is consistent with an RI too. I would take him to a vet. It might be worth a look in his mouth to see if you can see anything. Mucus would be consistent with an RI, or if you see a foreign object, then that likely explains the swelling and open mouth. But pretty much regardless of what you see or don't see in there, I think he should go to the vet.

As far as the regurges, now that he has had 2, it is very important that you go slowly and give his digestive system a chance to recover. I would wait at least 10 days from the last time he regurged before offering any food, and get the nutribac. Then, when you do offer food, offer a very small meal, maybe half the size he normally eats. If he can keep that down for a few meals, then slowly increase the size of his meals back up to normal.

The treatment the vet prescribes may affect how you need to treat the regurges. Antibiotics can interfere with the digestive tract, because unfortunately the antibiotics are just as good at killing the beneficial bacteria as they are at killing the bad ones. When I recently had to take a snake to the vet for an RI, the vet advised that I do not feed her at all until a week after the last antibiotic shot (a total of about 5 weeks without food).
 
My money is on severe RI with potential early mouth rot. Hard to tell on that last part, but I know severe RI can cause a backup of fluid and swelling in the head and mouth region. Need a vet asap and then the regurge protocol to get the eating back on track.
 
After reading and looking at the pictures I would also put my vote on an infection within the mouth such as mouth rot, My best advice would be to wait on any more feedings till he his correctly diagnosed and attempt to keep his temps nice and warm. I hope he will be okay.
 
It looks most likely an RI, as mentioned. I'd recommend a vet ASAP, as RI's can be fatal if left untreated.
An RI is something that needs to be address before the regurge. Do not feed until after you take this animal to a vet, and find out for sure what is going on.

After that is addressed (and the animal is back to health) then start the regurge protocol, with the NutriBAC.
 
Yes, I double the vet trip. Like YESTERDAY.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Okay, I'm not really sure what's going on here. I have noticed his head looks completely fine at times. I can pick him up and he'll move around normally, breathe normally, and his head will look absolutely normal. But then just a few seconds later it's back to being puffy again. He has let me feel around his head and it's very soft, not hard. I can't figure out what is causing this puffiness to come and go so quickly. It's almost like he's puffing up his cheeks intentionally. It's really weird to see it go back-and-forth from puffy to normal so quickly. He doesn't seem sick at all... I have another snake who did have a respiratory infection before so I have an idea what to look for, and this doesn't seem like that at all. Also, his mouth isn't sticky and it looks normal inside. I can't get him to a vet until next week... What could this possibly be?
 
My boa has/had a chronic RI. By the time their mouths get sticky it is rather advanced. I still think you are looking at an RI or other type of infection. He needs to see a reptile vet.
 
HOLY CRAP!


I think he may be dying! I live in the middle of nowhere and can't get any help for him. He's rolling around and doing weird stuff like putting substrate in his mouth! If anyone with knowledge about this type of behavior could help me would you be willing to call me so I can describe what's happening? Let me know and I'll PM my phone number if you think you can help. He's in some obvious pain!
 
I don't know if it's proper forum etiquette, but I would start a new thread so you can get some quick answers. Older threads may be overlooked.
 
I hope things pan out... but honestly doesn't sound too good right now. I know you say there's no help around you, but I'd highly advice a trip to the nearest vet, even if it is a couple of hours away. You kind of have to do the hand-over-hand thinking here (pros vs. cons)... try to figure out, if it is quite serious, how much you can or are willing to spend to help the snake, etc. etc.
Everyone has their own opinions on this.

Best of luck... I really hope things improve.
 
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