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Quad Hets?

westexherps

westexherps

I Brake For Snakes
I bought a trio of what the seller called Quad Het (hypo,amel, anery, motley)... The two clutches just started hatching out and so far what I've gotten is normals, normal stripes, amels, amel stripes....no anery....So I'm confused as to what exactly I have.
 
How can you have both amel and anery? From my small understanding of this mater, doesn't that contradict a bit?
 
Don't know about that....the last two have hatched and they are def. motleys and look like hypos....
 
I bought a trio of what the seller called Quad Het (hypo,amel, anery, motley)... The two clutches just started hatching out and so far what I've gotten is normals, normal stripes, amels, amel stripes....no anery....So I'm confused as to what exactly I have.
Click to expand...

Well first off, they're not het motley... they're het stripe.

Second, while clutch ratios are the average expected result, it's by no means the ONLY expected result.

Case in point, I bred a Crimson to a Snow stripe and out of 20 eggs only 2 were anery. The expected clutch ratio of anerys would've been 10.

Now admittedly the odds are against not getting anerys at all if all of your snakes are het, but it's not impossible. Just improbable. If your breeder was otherwise knowledgeable, perhaps it's just bad luck that you haven't gotten any.

On the stripe thing, it's also possible that the parent to this trio was a phenotypic motley genotypic stripe/motley, which is how even though one parent of your trio was a motley, you wound up with stripes instead.

How can you have both amel and anery? From my small understanding of this mater, doesn't that contradict a bit?
Click to expand...

You might want to check out Serpwidgets' genetic tutorials, Paradox. Amel and Anery are controlled by separate genes. In fact, animals homozygous for both are how one gets snows.

-Kat
 
Don't know about that....the last two have hatched and they are def. motleys and look like hypos....
Click to expand...

I'd bet that the 'motley' parent to your snakes was a motley het stripe (aka het motley het stripe). Since you're getting stripes in one of the clutches, the male must be het stripe, ergo YOUR motleys should also be het stripe.

-Kat
 
This is a calculation of what ratios of hatchlings you can expect from a quad het cross of Amel, Anery, Hypo, Motley. You should have a very colorful clutch :) Amels, Anerys, Ghosts, Snows and some of those with a pattern too.

Can you post photos of the striped hatchlings? Sometimes motley snakes have a similar striped pattern, but side by side you can tell them from a true stripe. If you don't hatch out ANY motleys, I might guess your normal male & female are het for Stripe & not Motley.

Male = het. Amel, het. Anery, het. Hypo, het. Motley
Female = het. Amel, het. Anery, het. Hypo, het. Motley

Offspring predicted as:

---------------------------------------------------
31.64% Normal(66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Anerythristic, 66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
10.55% Amelanistic (66% poss. het. Anerythristic, 66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
10.55% Anerythristic (66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
3.52% Amelanistic, Anerythristic (66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
10.55% Hypomelanistic (66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Anerythristic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
3.52% Amelanistic, Hypomelanistic (66% poss. het. Anerythristic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
3.52% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic (66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Motley)
1.17% Amelanistic, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic (66% poss. het. Motley)
10.55% Motley (66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Anerythristic, 66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic)
3.52% Amelanistic, Motley (66% poss. het. Anerythristic, 66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic)
3.52% Anerythristic, Motley (66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic)
1.17% Amelanistic, Anerythristic, Motley (66% poss. het. Hypomelanistic)
3.52% Hypomelanistic, Motley (66% poss. het. Amelanistic, 66% poss. het. Anerythristic)
1.17% Amelanistic, Hypomelanistic, Motley (66% poss. het. Anerythristic)
1.17% Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Motley (66% poss. het. Amelanistic)
0.39% Amelanistic, Anerythristic, Hypomelanistic, Motley

:cheers:
 
Often if an animal is a motley or a stripe it can appear that they are a hypo when in fact they're not.

Perhaps only one parent was het anery?? or neither???
 
We assumed when we bought them that these clutches would produce amels, anerys, snows, motleys and maybe stripes....the lack of anery or snow is what has confused me the most....I'll work on getting pictures of the babies on here.
 
Post photos of the parents too? How many hatchlings did you get? If it was only a few hatchlings, it could just be lady luck decided not to give you any Anerys & Snows. Statistically you should hatch out an equal number of Amels and Anerys.
 
There were two clutches....same father for both..the trio were all supposedly quad het .... 29 have hatched so far...there are a few left. I compared the hypo motley with another normal motley which is how I came to the conclusion that they were hypo. I'm not really sure how to tell with the amels if they are hypo or not...there are now stripes, motleys and reg. pattern of this color.
 
Hmm... 29 is a pretty large number of hatchlings to not have any anerys pop up in if they were het... Might want to chat with the breeder and see what the parents of your trio were.

And I don't think anyone knows how to tell a hypo amel from a regular amel. ;) Sometimes it produces a more sunglowy look, but I wouldn't use that as a positive ID.

-Kat
 
We got them from someone at a SC show...there for no getting in touch with them....they only do venemous, got them from another vendor, etc. We got them at a great price so I'm not that concerned with whether they lied or not, the snakes turned out to be good breeders, just want to figure out exactly what I have... :)
 
It sounds like great results for triple het animals. Some sellers these days tend to assume that if an animal is het anything, amel and anery are in the mix.
Now, as far as the 'stripes' and such, the animals could be showing the 'stripy' look that some motleys show.
 
Are the stripes from only one clutch and the motleys from the other? If so, then Kat hit the nail on the head...your male is het stripe, as is one of yopur females. The other female is het motley and her offspring are actually motley het stripe. Or, as Piper mentioned, you really don't have stripes, but probably pin-striped motleys instead.

And I would agree that not seeing a single anery or snow (or ghost) in 29 hatchlings is unusual, but not entirely unheard of. Wait until the last of the eggs hatch to make any possible judgements. Then, if you still don't have any, your next step would be to test the male (easiest one to try) with either a snow or anery (or ghost) female. The females may yet be het, but if the male isn't, those females won't produce anerys or snows with him. Then you could test each female to see if they, too, are in fact het anery or not.
 
hypo question

OK, promise I'm going to put the pics up today....but I was wondering if anyone could show me what a hypo stripe looks like.....since we have that one hypo normal and some of the stripes both normal and amel look "different" I wanted to compare them to a known hypo stripe....

thanks
 
nov_dezzy.jpg


Here's a hypo stripe for you. (I don't think I have a younger pic of him, unfortunately.)

-Kat
 
Hypo Striped het Lav

Here is a Hypo Striped just after it was born. Striped Corns are considerably darker when they are born and have dark brown stripes normally. If you have Hypo Stripes and Stripes from the same clutch, you won’t have a problem telling them apart.

I am curious to see if you have Four Lined Striped Corns or Pin-striped Motleys.
 

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