SB580 (total ban on all aquarium fish collecting)

[Chip]

This bill is, plain and simple, a complete statewide ban on the aquarium industry. News link:



Senators move to ban collection of fish for aquariums - Hawaii News -



Here is the hearing notice:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/hearingnotices/HEARING_WLH_02-03-11_.HTM

Here is a copy of the bill:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/bills/SB580_.htm

- PLEASE call the office of Senator Dela Cruz and say that you're opposed to SB580. The phone number is 808-586-6090.
WLH email list, just copy and paste:

[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]



WLH Committee link;

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2011/senatecommittees/committeepage.aspx?committee=WLH

 

[dragonmoon]

Just a question how is this a bad thing?

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person at any time to knowingly or intentionally sell or offer to sell, for aquarium purposes, aquatic life taken from any of the waters within the jurisdiction of the State.

its not banning the sale of fish just wild caught ones from how I read the bill... I honestly think if the fish cannot be bred in captivity then it shouldnt be collected for the pet trade....

 

[Chip]

How did they get the fish that can be captive bred?

 

[dragonmoon]

Im saying the aquarium buisness has been thriving for decades ..... the ban wouldnt affect public display or research ..... if the fish aren't already in the hands of people in the hobby to be bred then they shouldnt be collected ..... theres enough species of fish / animals that go extinct because of the pet trade .... look at the Celestial Pearl Danio it looked pretty in tanks so it was virtually wiped out in the space of 5 years

 

[Chip]

The celestial pearl is being bred by the thousands in tanks all over the world. I have them breeding! Their hope for the future is very promising in spite of past overcollecting. Which is the problem, NOT collecting. I can point out the white cloud mountain minnow became extinct in the wild because of pollution, and the only thing that kept it from going Do-do is its popularity in the hobby.

Marine fish are being captive bred for the first time all the time. This hobby is in its infancy, still.

 

[kathylove]

I know virtually nothing about saltwater tanks, BUT...

I do know that recreational saltwater fishing for food is allowed in most non-protected waters around the US. So why can't the same kind of management be used for sustainable harvest of aquarium fish that has been traditionally used for food fishing? Even without knowing about the particulars, it only seems logical that SOME harvest can be sustainable of SOME species. If not, then please explain why that would not be true, and why a blanket ban on all harvest is needed. Also, will the ban extend to harvesting for food as well?

 

[vetusvates]

Daing. Don't we have bigger people problems we need legislators to be working on?

 

[kathylove]

Apparently not...

If legislators can focus attention on pythons and pet fish, then maybe they can get voters to forget about the REAL problems that they are doing NOTHING to solve. But I guess that is the way to get more votes, so that is what they will do.

 

[starsevol]

If legislators can focus attention on pythons and pet fish, then maybe they can get voters to forget about the REAL problems that they are doing NOTHING to solve. But I guess that is the way to get more votes, so that is what they will do.

......and strip away even MORE rights in the process.....

 

[Hypancistrus]

Im saying the aquarium buisness has been thriving for decades ..... the ban wouldnt affect public display or research ..... if the fish aren't already in the hands of people in the hobby to be bred then they shouldnt be collected ..... theres enough species of fish / animals that go extinct because of the pet trade .... look at the Celestial Pearl Danio it looked pretty in tanks so it was virtually wiped out in the space of 5 years

Marine fish do not equal freshwater fish. Many of them have reproduction that is dependent upon currents. Many of the inverts kept in reef tanks go through a protracted larval planktonic stage where they must drift freely in the open sea. You can't simply "captive breed them." Not without losing a significant amount of diversity.

As Kathy said, if it's okay to sustainably harvest for food, why not for aquarium trade as well??

I wonder who is backing this particular bill....

Edit: Chip, I cross posted this on my old fish boards. Shockingly, I was the only person to have posted it. The fish community needs to pull their heads out of the ground and realize that they can be a target for legislation like this, and that ignoring it and assuming it simply "can't be passed" isn't enough. Take a leaf from USARK, so to speak.

 

[kathylove]

My guess...


"I wonder who is backing this particular bill.... "

Maybe Bill Nelson has a brother in Hawaii??

 

[dragonmoon]

As Kathy said, if it's okay to sustainably harvest for food, why not for aquarium trade as well??
.

maybe if there is a limit on harvesting and select experienced breeders get to breed the fish it would work but just generally harvesting for the pet trade is always a bad idea ....

 

[kathylove]

As a GENERAL rule, I would tend to agree. BUT - if a species can be sustainably harvested for food by all licensed fishermen, then what would be the difference if it (or a species just as abundant) could be managed for pet trade harvest? That means, with similar limits or other restrictions to guarantee sustainability. I am not able to see the difference - is there a difference that I am missing?

 

[dragonmoon]

The point I was trying to make Kathy is the majority of what most would call pet size aquarium fish are not sustainable .... a lot of the time it is juvenile fish that are taken so never get to reach adult/breeding size and a lot of the time the unwanted fish that are caught are culled .... any harvesting allowed would need to be monitored closely I believe

 

[dragonmoon]

and most of the fish that are harvested for food are also not sustainable and numbers are seriously depleted on a lot of common food fish

 

[kathylove]

So are you saying that most of the salt water fish kept in aquariums are juveniles, and that they never reach adult size? I am not sure if you mean that it is just juvies that are captured and sold, or that only juvies are suited for aquarium life. Not being into salt water fish, I have no idea what percentage that would apply to.

But generally speaking, juveniles of most animal species are the size least likely to survive and eventually produce. Most will just become food for other animals. Once they have survived to adulthood, many have learned how to avoid predators and find food, and are much hardier and less likely to die for any reason during the next year or two. If aquarium fish follow the usual rules, then it is far better to remove juveniles from the population (considering that most will not survive in the wild anyway) than to remove adults that have already proven their ability to contribute to the wild gene pools.

 

[Rich Z]

It looks like government at all levels is working hard to make my prediction come true within my lifetime. I predicted that at some point, everyone will be issued a thin manual that will contain everything that is LEGAL for a USA citizen to do. If it is not in that manual, then it is illegal. And it will have yearly revisions and also be subject to change without prior notice.

Seriously would this be any worse than it is now? You often hear it stated that "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Well excuse me, but how on earth can ANYONE know EVERY cotton pickin' law that applies to them? It is virtually impossible to do. Even lawyers specialize in specific sections of the law because they can't know everything and that is their CAREER....

Grumble........

 

[kathylove]

"and most of the fish that are harvested for food are also not sustainable and numbers are seriously depleted on a lot of common food fish"

Although I don't watch the rules carefully because I don't fish, I do see discussions in the news at times. Here in Florida, they occasionally change seasonal limits on some kinds of popular fish because of changes in the population. Sometimes they will completely cancel the season for a particular species. If those rules are based on true science (I have no idea if they are, since I haven't looked into it), then I totally agree with doing what it takes to keep the sport sustainable. But if it was a "one size fits all" ban on all fishing, based on a whim that sounded good, then I would be against it.

So before I could agree with a blanket ban, I would have to know if all of the aquarium fish are being decimated by the pet trade, whether any species could be responsibly harvested, and whether the ban will also apply to sport fishermen who eat their catch.

 

[Chip]

The point I was trying to make Kathy is the majority of what most would call pet size aquarium fish are not sustainable ....

The majority? Where on earth are getting that information?!? There are "tank busters" that grow to very large sizes, but these are not common in the hobby. I can assure you, the majority of popularly kept tropical fish do not reach large sizes.

a lot of the time it is juvenile fish that are taken so never get to reach adult/breeding size and a lot of the time the unwanted fish that are caught are culled ....

Again, where are you getting your info? Fishes I purchase for customers marine aquaria are mostly hand-netted and MAC certified. There aren't giant trawl nets cast and the small ones bagged for the trade, while the larger ones are "culled." 20 years ago cyanide and such was frequently used for collecting, but those days are long past.

 

[Hypancistrus]

The point I was trying to make Kathy is the majority of what most would call pet size aquarium fish are not sustainable .... a lot of the time it is juvenile fish that are taken so never get to reach adult/breeding size and a lot of the time the unwanted fish that are caught are culled .... any harvesting allowed would need to be monitored closely I believe

There have been two examples provided of a situation where the aquarium trade alone was responsible for the extirpation of a fish species from the wild. I'll add one more-- Cherry Barbs are extinct in their natural waters, but very prevalent in hobbyist tanks.

So where in God's name are you getting to idea that "the majority of what most would call pet size aquarium fish are not sustainable..."???

3 out of THOUSANDS of species of freshwater fish alone is a pretty good record (I fully acknowlege the fact that there are more than 3-- but the number is still low enough to be statistically insignificant)

and most of the fish that are harvested for food are also not sustainable and numbers are seriously depleted on a lot of common food fish

This is true... but under new fisheries methods and sustainable management practices MANY species are now on the rebound and reaching a point where increases in harvest are justified.

Blue Crab: http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/chesapeake-bays-blue-crab-population-increasing-state-says

GWS: http://www.grindtv.com/surf/blog/19... shark population on the rise scientist says/

Summer Flounder: http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/12900/rebuilding-the-flounder-population

Just to name a few. So again, can you show me articles, sources and numbers that say that it's impossible to set up a sustainable fishery either for food OR the aquarium trade? Not that it's hard, or requires work and forethought... that it's IMPOSSIBLE.