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The ball python madness

Carinata said:
Last time I checked this wasn't a political discussion.

Most of these people didn't start with a lot of money. I would invite you to research breeders who got a second mortgage, worked 3 jobs, lived on ramen for years, etc.

It's all about hard work and investing your money correctly.
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I'm just pointing out that you shouldn't nit pick which questions I dodge, Mr. Question dodger.

Here is another thing to consider, how many of those guys on that list are tight? Like homies, boys, or brothers. Because I know that if I call up someone I know pretty well to inquire about a snake, I'm not paying full retail.
 
Nate, so you wouldn't sell a snake for $17,000. Why? If someone has the money and wants to buy it, why wouldn't you sell it at the market price. If no one wanted to buy Banana Balls at their current market price, they would be cheaper.
 
I think I'm above them, yes. But to be fair, they think they are above me because I didn't pay 17K for a snake. It goes both ways.
 
Most ridiculous thing I have ever heard/read an adult say. That's a 5th grade argument.

"I don't like them because they don't like me!"

The funny thing about believing you're "above" someone is that it really puts you beneath them.
 
I gotta say that if someone offered me $17K for a snake, whether I thought it was worth it or not, I'd sell it to them. In my personal opinion, it's about being opportunistic. My pair of Moellendorffi are het Hypo. The potential offspring can go for $1200. If they happened to be (unknown to me) also het patternless and produce a patternless hypo, you best believe I'd try to have that set over $10K. Given that they would be a world's first in a difficult species, I don't think I'd be asking too much for that.
 
Carinata said:
How do you know they feel that way?
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Again, 14 years in this hobby. Sure, I've met some great people, ball breeders. But most of them leave a negative impression with me. And David, you run around here all the time mouthing off about the value of your animals while demeaning corns all the time. So there's that too.

Robbie, you do what you gotta do. Same goes for everyone else. You can't please all the people all the time. Least of all me.
 
Nate, I understand your point of view. Yes, I have some animals that are expensive, and yes I do like to show them off (because I think they look awesome). I don't demean Corns, I simply talk about the market like it is. Some Corn morphs are awesome, and Corns are great animals, but I simply don't see there being a huge market for the high end morphs.
 
fyrefocks said:
I admit I'd like to see it too. But I don't need to. Once you see a 30K price tag, 40K isn't that hard to imagine. And 30K was NERDs original price for a male soul sucker.
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Thats nothing really. I saw a Albino Black Rat Snake fetch 100K at Daytona a few years ago. The reason it was a adult with 2 heads. There was also a adult King snake that year with 2 heads that sold for 70K.

Carinata said:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=929750

Honestly, there are more people breeding Balls on a large Scale than people breeding Corns on a large scale.
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I really feel that corns, BP, Leopard Geckos and a few other popular animals are all on equal scales. Next time you go to a show count each popular animal table or each animal if you want to go that way. I bet you that the numbers are pretty close to even.

Nanci said:
I have three quintuple HOMO corns that are going to be offered for sale shortly. $200!! What do you think a quintuple BP would bring??
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Really what do you got? Like Robbie said add a couple of zeros and that would be your answer.

vliberatore said:
If you could sell a corn for $17k, would you?

If you answer yes, you're greedy.
If you answer no, you're stupid.
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I would not feel right taking that kind of money from anyone for any reptile. These are living creatures not stocks that you hope to cash in when they are high. Yes most people that breed anything to plants/animals hope to make some money. But 17K for one thing is crazy. Just how much money are you making off of that animal. Well lets see. You have the parents that cost you whatever not factoring that in. So lets say that the cost for a year for 2 breeding BP adults is $500 (way over estimated). You sell one of their babies for 17K just one. That is a serious turn over. Which again makes it to where the average person can not own one of these animals for what 10 years until prices come down. How is this fair. Yes something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but at some point it does become alittle greedy.

fyrefocks said:
I'm just pointing out that you shouldn't nit pick which questions I dodge, Mr. Question dodger.

Here is another thing to consider, how many of those guys on that list are tight? Like homies, boys, or brothers. Because I know that if I call up someone I know pretty well to inquire about a snake, I'm not paying full retail.
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This is true with any breeding project of any animal though. You will always have those inter circle people that work together on projects.

Carinata said:
Nate, so you wouldn't sell a snake for $17,000. Why? If someone has the money and wants to buy it, why wouldn't you sell it at the market price. If no one wanted to buy Banana Balls at their current market price, they would be cheaper.
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The reason that is the current market on them is because that is what breeders have made people believe this is what they are worth. The problem is yes that new morph is going to be worth some serious cash, but the amount of time the average person can afford said morph is 10-20 years regardless of how many said animals are out there. It is the market that controls prices, but it is also the ones that breed said animal that controls the market.
 
I really can not imagine paying more than $1000 for a snake, any snake. No matter what it is.

Or really, a dog. Horses are another story!

Josh- hypo amel anery bloodred stripes.
 
I agree with Nanci! Most expensive snake we own is the Hog Island boa and we paid 150 shipped for him. I am seriously thinking about getting an albino ball python if I can find a breeder I like.
 
Lord I apologize...I knew better than to post this thread...Please tell me I did not see in this thread that someone was breeding high end investment ball pythons NOT for the money potential...Ummm...so...why invest in high end ball pythons again? :shrugs:

Hey get what you can get; I have NO problem with ANYONE being able to make it in the reptile community, but the ball python world is just...wow lol...I'm glad I'm a spectator, and (JMHO) the money is ridiculous. We're a one car family. I can spend a couple dollars here and again on neat stuff in the corn snake market, and even the dwarf boa market lol, but I can't drive that "blingbling compensating for something" ball python morph to work...
 
Jesus freaking wept.

tumblr_m43hy0OWWx1qczizeo1_500.jpg


From here on out every time someone spends more money than I think something is worth, I'm going call them stupid.

That's what this argument sounds like.

You really like purple rocks a lot, but you paid 10k for one? That's stupid. You really like green ponies, but you paid 40k for one? That's stupid.

But I like and enjoy purple rocks and green ponies. If you don't want to pay that kind of money it's fine, but I know I got a great deal in the current purple rock and green pony price market. They make me happy. I enjoy them and I made a free choice with my money.

You don't like the price of something? Don't buy it. Don't put down the people that do just because it happens to not be your "thing."
 
I absolutely love my ball. She's my sweetest, best eating snake. I have wanted a mystic potion ball python for awhile now, and will probably buy one in a few years.

If someone wants to pay 40k for a snake, that is their choice. I won't, but I'm not them.

I belong to a fun ball python group on facebook, and never tire at looking at all of the amazing morphs. So few are brown. Hatchling season is starting, and people are producing amazing things.
 
I am honestly SHOCKED at the content in this discussion. There seems to be a thick black line between the BP community, and the corn/colubrid community. DO NOT LIKE!

I am a corn person, and a python person. I see the appeal of both.

How many of you on this forum have riced out cars? Motorcycles? ATVs? Other "frivolous" purchases that the majority of people can't seem to understand why you spend so much $ on? We all like certain things. If you don't like it, that's you.

Same thing. If you don't like balls, don't breed them. Pretty simple. No need to rag on the ball community for how expensive some morphs are. Has anybody mentioned the Toffee ball python?

The importation of the original Toffee male cost somewhere in the 6 figures. So 40K is nothing.

Toffee-Ball-Project-Update.aspx


For everybody who thinks it's all about money in the ball python world, check this out:

Whose making $ Breeding Ball Pythons?

It's just a small snapshot of some people in the BP industry, but it is still fairly accurate. There are very, VERY few people who make $ at this gig.

As for the comments about how they all look the same? Guess what, people who breed balls think the same about corns. It's because if you don't know both species and the related morphs and morph combinations, YES they all look the same. Do you know how to read Chinese symbols? No? Well, they probably all look the same to you. It's the same basic concept.

I don't know why some people need justification for how much ball pythons cost, that's just the way it is. As already stated, supply & demand is a huge part of it. There aren't as many Albino ball pythons as there are Amel corn snakes, because corn snakes have 20 eggs in their clutches and balls have 6.

I don't mean to be repeating myself, I mostly just came in here to express how shocked I am at the division within the reptile community. We're supposed to be sticking together, not criticizing fellow breeders for their own personal decisions on how much $ to spend on a snake.
 
Reptileman81 said:
I would not feel right taking that kind of money from anyone for any reptile. These are living creatures not stocks that you hope to cash in when they are high. Yes most people that breed anything to plants/animals hope to make some money. But 17K for one thing is crazy. Just how much money are you making off of that animal. Well lets see. You have the parents that cost you whatever not factoring that in. So lets say that the cost for a year for 2 breeding BP adults is $500 (way over estimated). You sell one of their babies for 17K just one. That is a serious turn over. Which again makes it to where the average person can not own one of these animals for what 10 years until prices come down. How is this fair. Yes something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but at some point it does become alittle greedy.
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Since when was life fair? If a breeder chargers more than the market will bear, they will either keep the animal or lower the price. It's only greedy because you can't sell your snakes for that much ;)

Also, what are the odds at producing that offspring in a clutch? Can't be high. If it were the market would be flooded with them and they couldn't sell for $40k.

Personally, I get the same satisfaction out of a $10 snake as I would for a $40k snake. That's why you won't see me spending anywhere close to what some of you all want for your corns, let alone designer BP morphs.

Lastly, how many people bought a $1000 tessera to breed and sell those babies for $700-800 each? is that not greedy? I mean, the returns on that are huge!

Until you're in the situation that you could sell a snake for anything even close to that, who are you to judge?
 
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