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The ball python madness

David, I'm done with you until you tell me why gay marriage offends your way of life.

Now, back to the topic at hand. Given that most genes in the ball world are co-dom, and there isn't too much going on with recessives, and at least some breeders can and will throw 2 or 3 males to a female, you don't get to give me the "it's too hard to hit the 1/32 odds" mess. You know how many times I've seen a clutch hatch that had no normals in it even though the female was normal and the male(s) was a genetic co-dom combo? Too many for me to buy in to that pity party, that's for sure.

And I know this was way back in the beginning of this thread, and maybe I shouldn't bring it up, but since someone mentioned BHB being so great with their business model and whatnot, why doesn't someone mention that the SK mots they are selling are up for less than half of what the current market has them listed for? OT, I know. And a bit grudgy too. But someone else brought them and their business ideals up, so I don't consider it out of bounds for this thread.

And if the answer to that question is "They buy wholesale and are simply trying to move them out", I might come through my PC and punch the answerer in the face.

Autumn, I feel an infraction coming on. It's just too bad we're on opposite sides here because that means you won't be getting one with me this time. :mad:
 
They buy wholesale and are simply trying to move them out.
You set them up like that, I'll knock them down with an underhand throw. :rofl:


When you hit a 4 gene mix of codoms AND recessives combo in a 5 egg clutch I will be the first to dance naked at your wedding. It's not as easy as you think.
 
Why should any breeder of any animal drop the price and devalue their market? Anyone aspiring to own their stock can do so, if they have the passion they will find the money!
I can think of plenty of examples of animals/birds/reptiles I personally cannot afford to buy, or I can't give the room and time they would need. That's no-one else's fault, not an evil plot to keep me from things I have a 'right' to own and enjoy, it's just how life is. I could easily buy my own horse now, but I couldn't guarantee being able to cover all the costs in keeping one, the possible vet bills, grazing, and the time to work with it every day. But my best friend goes without treats, holidays, new clothes, home improvements, all so she can keep Nuts and the Crazy Gang and gets up early every day of the year and goes home late so she can make sure they are happy.
 
Carinata said:
Nate I aasure you that more than 100 people have Banana's/Coral Glows......

If you breed Balls and have a decent sized collection of 50 medium end Balls, you can make enough in a season to afford a 12,000-17,000 Coral Glow.
Click to expand...

Exactly seeing how you are charging hundreds and thousands of dollars for each snake. I bet you would have the money to spend on that Coral Glow.
 
Like I said elsewhere.... I collect watches... All of them exactly the same, they all just tell the time.
I can't wear more than one at a time. A totally worthless collection... And they can't even breed and make cooler watches....
Yet I still look for more, to add to the collection.....
Because I can.....
 
Reptileman81 said:
Exactly seeing how you are charging hundreds and thousands of dollars for each snake. I bet you would have the money to spend on that Coral Glow.
Click to expand...

So we should...what...base the hobby on Socialism? Don't think so.

Those people worked hard and EARNED their collections. Building up bit by bit and played the big gambles that could have made them or broken them. The same can be said for corns, balls, retics, carpets, anything.

BHB did not suddenly wake up with a $500,000 collection of ball python. Ralph Davis did not suddenly wake with a $500,000 collection and Kevin McCurley and NERD surely did not either.

They started just like us at one point. The difference they worked darn hard to be where they are, not a single one of them expected to be handed anything.

I started several years ago with a few 100-300 morphs. I worked hard and saved for them. This year I bought my first $1,000 ball python with money from selling babies. Heck I used some profits from selling to partially pay for a house. I worked damn hard and I am proud of what my collection has become.
 
I do applaud you, my brothers, sisters, and non-identifying others in the herp community for all of the amazing work you have done in breeding within and advancing our hobby. I am sorry that my comments (I think I was poster #3?) dismissing balls as "all brown" was offensive. I'm a Elaphe and Pantherophis fan myself, but the day I see an Ivory ball hatchling, I'm going to pray that I have a spare vivarium and UTH.

we can be better than this squabbling. people have already said all that needs to be said with the exception of apologizing for the needless baiting that we have engaged in. We all use UTH's, worry about food/poop/shed cycles, order dead rodents when we can, and eagerly await the next Herp expos in our areas. let's get back to that good stuff.
 
obboi34 said:
I do applaud you, my brothers, sisters, and non-identifying others in the herp community for all of the amazing work you have done in breeding within and advancing our hobby. I am sorry that my comments (I think I was poster #3?) dismissing balls as "all brown" was offensive. I'm a Elaphe and Pantherophis fan myself, but the day I see an Ivory ball hatchling, I'm going to pray that I have a spare vivarium and UTH.

we can be better than this squabbling. people have already said all that needs to be said with the exception of apologizing for the needless baiting that we have engaged in. We all use UTH's, worry about food/poop/shed cycles, order dead rodents when we can, and eagerly await the next Herp expos in our areas. let's get back to that good stuff.
Click to expand...

Hear Hear. I agree totally with this post. I for one will apologize for any ill things I said. I just got get the BP craze or the price's they fetch. But I will also say that whatever it is you are into and however much you have "invested" in it it is what you love. This is why we are all apart of the herp community. As for Expos I for one can not wait for Daytona. Will be my 18th year attending and maybe my first year vending if all goes well and there are still some tables left close to the due date. Pretty much we just have to agree to disagree here.

Again I am sorry if I have offended anyone or asked them to justify themselves. Hey to be fair I dont get the Leo craze either.
 
fyrefocks said:
David, I'm done with you until you tell me why gay marriage offends your way of life.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's enough badgering David. What the FRICK does David's view on gay marriage have to do with the price of ball pythons??? Geez, drop it already. And good job, David, for not taking the multiple baits...
 
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with a skunk. I've explained my position on the market, and hopefully people understand my position. If I could sell an animal for $45,000, you know I'd take it. In an instant. If the animals genetics were worth that much. With the Banana/Coral Glow project, they are.

I can guarantee there are over 100 people with Banana/CG animals in their collection. If there wasn't, the price would be much lower. It's only common sense. If an animal isn't selling for X amount you lower it to Y amount, to make it more affordable.
 
Nanci said:
Okay, that's enough badgering David. What the FRICK does David's view on gay marriage have to do with the price of ball pythons??? Geez, drop it already. And good job, David, for not taking the multiple baits...
Click to expand...

They're both the fault of the GOP?

:D
 
There are quite a few recessive morphs in the BP world actually... or desirable supers which to get to, you pretty much have to go through the same ordeal and have the same chance as any recessive.

But let's shed some true perspective- have you tried breeding BP's? do you know the length of time it takes plus how many females actually take? Cause let me tell you, it's not the 3 10 minute copulation you see in Corns- Allot of females don't get gravid, they are not prolific.

Amount of eggs- Corns can lay up to 20-30 eggs? let's go with an average of 15. BP's, IF the female lays eggs, the average clutch is around 6...
Incubating BP eggs is a tad more complex.
So... you end up with having a deal less chance to produce what you want.

Fact of the matter is... BP's are in higher demand by people who are willing to pay the price. You expect the breeders to act the Socialist and 'spread the wealth'- this is no different from turning to Apple and tell demand that their iPhones become available to all (after all, it's just a fancy phone?).

I apologize, but I don't think you're any different than others who pretty much give the stinkeye to anyone who gets a break. There are other costs to maintaining a large collection in order to produce such animals, you have mortality to deal with, electricity and pretty much everything that is related to owning a business. Usually, those breeders dedicate themselves to that- meaning that they should be able to make a living as anyone else does... they shouldn't be forced to make less because they chose to dedicate themselves to something which you consider not prestigious enough to warrant the income.

Cornsnakes live in the US, can be picked up in the wild in some states(unless that's no longer the case?), they have allot of recessive morphs, they are very prolific and yes- people were eager to 'break' the market during these past couple of years... it's more difficult to get 'stuck' with several dozens/hundreds of Corn hatchlings- dealing with a couple dozen BP's is easier to cope with.

Naturally you can think whatever you want, but IMHO your demand is detached from reality- quite honestly? I see nothing but jealousy and a narrow-eyed approach. Had it been the other way around, and it was Corns making allot of money, you would be protecting the value of your animals like mad.
 
Ah just wanted to add- if you get a clutch of Palmetto's for instance, with say... 15 offspring, 50% are hets, the rest are homozygous= 28000+12000(1500 per het, 8 hets)... that's 40,000$
The size of the clutch DEFINITELY gas an impact on the total sale value.
 
Also another quick note:

Ball Pythons: I started pairing in August 2011 and got hatchlings on June 5th, 2012. That's 10 months.

Corn Snakes: I started pairing on January 17th, 2012 and had hatchlings on April 23rd, 2012. That's about 2 and a half months.
 
I don't see why corn people and ball people should be squabbling. We are, first and foremost, SNAKE people. That makes us WAY COOLER than the lizard, turtle and frog people!!!! :)
 
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