The most sickest ever..

[Pet Corn Snake]

Sorry forgot to spell check!

 

[tyflier]

when i sit here and thing, crushing an ant, slaying a cow pig or sliting a dofins throught, its all the same, its killing a life.. and i know we need food and thing s but i'am sure if people put more effert into growing vegitables ect.. then we would solve alot of problems with obsesity and would probably live longer as humans, but telling this to the world is harder then anyone can imagine because soo many people love meat, me myself, i think meat is really nice, but the way some of it is got is most disturbing..

Human beings are NOT herbivorous, we are omnivorous, meaning we require balance in our consumption of meat and vegetables in order to be healthy...unless you are using supplemental protein, which I think is for the birds, but is a different discussion, altogether...

I am in agreement with PnyKlr. I don't understand why we, as humans, feel justified in drawing arbitrary "lines in the sand" as far as "It's OK to kill and eat this mammal, but not that one." It is only a matter of culture that seperates us from those that feel the consumption of "bush meat" or dolphin meat is acceptable. It is a percieved idea of intelligence, and anthropomorphism that causes us to cringe when we see dolphins being slaughtered, yet...meat is meat, in reality. A great white shark does not see any difference between a person, a dolphin, a seal, a green sea turtle or a halibut when it is hunting. It sees only food, and a necessary amount of calories.

Don't get me wrong...I don't eat dolphin, I don't eat veal. But I at least accept and understand my own hypocrisy in making those choices. My choices do not impact the industry practices one bit, and I LIKE the taste and tenderness of veal. So why will I eat chicken but not veal? Better yet...why would I eat Angus beef, but not veal? I can't even answer those questions for myself, other than it makes me feel better...but it is still nonsensical in as much as meat is meat...calories are calories.

As far as renewable resources are concerned...there is a tremendous effort ongoing as we speak regarding the worldwide decline of wild salmon species. They have been overfished and commercially harvested for years to the point that only 1% of the world's population of wild salmon species exist any more. And it gets worse each season, because salmon cannot access historical waterways and spawning runs. But nobody cares. Why? Nobody starts a thread talking about how disturbing and disgusting it is to see gill nets stretched across the Columbia River, with literally hundreds of dead salmon trapped and prevented from spawning. But it is the exact same thing, in essence. It is still a massive and brutal slaughter, unnecessarily, of a beautiful creature. But nobody cares, and THAT is the hypocrisy that I can't comprehend.

 

[MegF.]

Pet Cornsnake: Not necessarily true. I don't know of a whole lot of 100 year old vegetarians! You need proteins from meats or milk or something like that. Phytoproteins (even those found in Soy) are incomplete. We are carnivores. Eyes on the front of our heads and canines (although they are small). How do you know vegetables and plants don't feel or think? Just because they don't have a way to communicate doesn't mean they can't feel. They are alive after all. If you thought that way, we'd never eat again! Personally, I don't have a problem with killing. I do have a problem with killing something for nothing more than sport or un-needed meat that nobody really wants or can afford but eat because it's bizarre and new. If you are going to kill to eat...fine. Just don't kill it to make a buck.

 

[simple_minded]

Most livestock that we feed on are specially bred for that purpose, those dolphins are wild and will never be bred or farmed to replace the ones that have been killed.

I agree completely with that statement. I think there's a difference between meat from animals that were raised and bred especially for the purpose of slaughter verses meat obtained from killing wild animals. My reason for this, though, isn't because it's okay to kill farm-raised animals, but because by killing wild animals, we are making our environment worse than it already is. By killing these wild dolphins, we're endangering the species, much like we had endangered or even caused the extinction of many other species of animals by over-hunting them.

The rich ARE going to indulge themselves in some way or another. I've had the chance to visit some asian countries, and food is a HUGE part of the culture over there. Also, feeding rich people is NOT the same as feeding poor starving children. I've been to dinners where they literally order a GIANT table-full of food, and eat only maybe 1/4 or a 1/3 of it at best. And the rest? It all goes into the garbage. Many rich people are more concerned with showing off their wealth at being able to AFFORD these delicacies than actually NEEDING to eat the food or even enjoy it.

 

[Pet Corn Snake]

Thanks for helping me understand this a little more, as i say i'm not a huge animal lover, i feel that animals are eather there for "milk, to live wild, or for meat"


reptiles, well, the reason reptiles are mostly the only animals i love, is because they were here before any of us, before cats dogs godfish ect... they know all the secrets to this world, and they are living fosels, Damien means the world to me!

Anyways, getting back to the point, i feel that however i dont like these animals they should not deserve to die slowly, not for food not for fun, nothing.... if your going to kill it, thats fine, as long as you have a license and show it as little pain as possible, its the same as killing mice for snakes, your sacrafsing one life to keep another one... and this is generally done with a quick tap on the head causing no pain at all..


do you guys get what i'm blabbing about?

Also i dont want to be disliked because i'm not a massive animal lover, its not a "needed thing to like all animals" reptiles are my thing : )

 

[MegF.]

It's fine not to be an animal lover. At least you recognize it! I am a huge lover of all animals and I heartily agree with you that if you are going to kill something, do it humanely. Not all hunting of wild animals is a bad thing. Deer hunting is big here in the south to cull the huge populations resulting in better wildlife management. Dying slowly from starvation is no better than dying slowly by inept methods of slaughter. That said, dolphins are not exactly at such huge populations that they are eating more than the environment can sustain. They aren't endangered by any means, but huge cullings such as done by the Japanese could conceivably destroy the local population.

 

[tyflier]

Sadly, too many people don't recognize the difference between "conservation" and "preservation". I am an extremely passionate conservationist...just ask anyone that knows me, or has had a debate regarding wild trout populations in California .

However, conservation has nothing to do with saving the lives of all animals, all the time. That is preservation which, in my humble opinion, is ALWAYS a bad idea. Conservation is the act of "selective harvest" and habitat management. Selective harvest is the art of culling only those animals which will not negatively impact the habitat.

Like MegF. said, deer hunting is often an act of conservation, along with bears, boar, elk, caribou, and most other large game mammals and some small game mammals. Without selective harvesting on these herds, MOST of them would overpopulate and destroy a habitat. In these instances, selective harvesting and hunting is essential to the survival of the habitat and the other animals that live there.

In the same way, selective harvesting of sea creatures can also be essential to the health of the environment. Too much of ANYTHING can be detrimental...just as much so as too LITTLE. In this manner I take no issue with the selective harvest of ALL creatures on the planet, so long as the available populations will not be negatively impacted by the removal of a select few individuals.(During deer season we hunt deer. So since it's tourist season... )

With all that being said, it is far too often that "Wildlife Management" agencies make decisions based on emotional implications rather than actual biological studies that take into account ALL aspects of the habitat and it's livestock, including cyclical dying of different species. They very often view wildlife management as a linear proposal...meaning if I remove predator A, than prey B will thrive. However, nature is NEVER this linear in it's operations, and "management" of this nature almost infallably creates a more detrimental situation than the one they were trying to correct. It happened in Yellowstone in the 30s + 40s when they removed the wolves to protect the elk, and in the following years they were overwhelmed with elk...and couldn't figure out why. They are doing it now in California with the mountain yellow legged frog, where they are performing fish-kills in many of the high elevation lakes and streams to protect this endangered amphibian...but they are killing off wild trout populations, including endangered native trout species like red bands and the Volcano Creek Golden Trout.

So...to try and bring this long rant back around to the topic at hand...I, too am a lover of animals. However, I am not so much a lover of animals that I can't see where the culling of select members of a species is extremely beneficial to the planet and environment as a whole. Consider for a moment that we have only been able to research and study an estimated 10% of the entire population and area of the world's oceans. Do we really know that killing dolphins is detrimental? Do we really know how to "take care of" the oceans and their inhabitants with the extremely limited research and information that is available? We have been studying terr-firma for hundreds of years, yet every year, our "wildlife managers" are correcting the mistakes they made last year. So can we truly rely on them to make the right decisions about an area of the planet that we know NOTHING about?

In other words...I think these decisions are based on emotion rather than research, and in that same notion...it is WHY I feel the way that I stated in the previous posts that I made. Food is food, meat is meat, and I don't think these arbitrary lines that have been drawn are necessarily the "right" lines...it's mostly cultural and emotional in nature, based on our own preconceived ideas of these animals and their needs...

 

[Hypancistrus]

Not all hunting of wild animals is a bad thing. Deer hunting is big here in the south to cull the huge populations resulting in better wildlife management. Dying slowly from starvation is no better than dying slowly by inept methods of slaughter. That said, dolphins are not exactly at such huge populations that they are eating more than the environment can sustain. They aren't endangered by any means, but huge cullings such as done by the Japanese could conceivably destroy the local population.

I think this is the best argument for NOT doing it. That and what Ty said about conservation.

I don't eat very much meat, favoring veggies instead, but what I do eat is mostly chicken, fish, and occaisional beef and pork. I do not eat lamb or veal. I don't like to eat "babies." I don't even really like to eat other meat, :shrugs: but I tried a 6 month stint as a vegetarian, and that just didn't work for me.

 

[plasticknives]

We're back to a renewable source. Pigs, cows and chickens are raised for food. They are replaced with others. Once dolphins become extinct...that's it. Same for the whales. That's why there was an international moratorium placed on hunting them. Let me tell you, there's nothing cuter than a baby pig or cow...as far as intelligence though....I don't see the Navy training cows to point out mines....they can't even figure out how to walk into a chute. And for what it's worth...I buy cage free chicken eggs.

But really- ARE they a renewable source? When you talk small, cattle raised on a family farm and such, yes, I guess they could be considered a renewable source. But a HUGE percentage of beef, especially the "cheap" beef that is used to feed the lower classes is raised in areas that are not renewable ( the land, once the trees are cut, cannot retain moisture and has about a period of 10 years before it is unusable to grow/produce food. It does not rebound in one human lifespan, ie. unrenewable resource.) In those cases, beef is much LESS renewable than fishing.


Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[MegF.]

Where we ran our cattle, there were no trees to begin with. It's in N. California and it's just flat lands all the way to San Francisco. No trees were taken out. Where we ran cattle before, the trees were left there. The cattle ran in the mountains and ate the existing grass with trees and all other natural brush and bushes left there. If you've ever been to Springville, CA that's where it was. Big mountains and lots of trees. Cattle don't necessarily mean destruction of trees. We ran them on 23,000 acres of trees!

 

[tyflier]

Where we ran our cattle, there were no trees to begin with. It's in N. California and it's just flat lands all the way to San Francisco. No trees were taken out. Where we ran cattle before, the trees were left there. The cattle ran in the mountains and ate the existing grass with trees and all other natural brush and bushes left there. If you've ever been to Springville, CA that's where it was. Big mountains and lots of trees. Cattle don't necessarily mean destruction of trees. We ran them on 23,000 acres of trees!

They may not mean the destruction of trees, but they, when herded, definitely represent the destruction of vast amounts of riperian habitat...which leads us back to "wildlife management" and all it does for all of us...

 

[plasticknives]

I just wanted to bring up another point......not to dispute that we are omnivores and meat eating is really what we're made for; it is possible to get 100% all the amino acids needed from beans and rice. Hemp seed, nuts, and other seeds also contain essential proteins.

Soy is a little over-hyped as a vegetarian food- its not bad for you in moderations, but it's not really "the vegetarian solution" either.

And the fact that you don't see many 100 year old vegetarians has more to do with the fact that 100 years ago it would have been silly to be a vegetarian because people didn't have the knowledge or resources to have a healthy diet without meat.
Now we do have the resources and knowledge, so there very well may be many 100 year old vegetarians coming up in the very near future.

A vegetarian diet takes time and effort, but it isn't necessarily less healthy than a diet with meat in it- especially when you consider the amount of meat eaters who eat fast foods, processed foods and other junk nowadays. Vegetarians TEND (..not all, but most that I know..) to pay more attention to their diets because of the restrictions, and eat just as healthy as all of us who like a steak now and then. Sometimes (often) healthier.


But that may be only my experience from living in the organic food capital of canada....

 

[plasticknives]

Where we ran our cattle, there were no trees to begin with. It's in N. California and it's just flat lands all the way to San Francisco. No trees were taken out. Where we ran cattle before, the trees were left there. The cattle ran in the mountains and ate the existing grass with trees and all other natural brush and bushes left there. If you've ever been to Springville, CA that's where it was. Big mountains and lots of trees. Cattle don't necessarily mean destruction of trees. We ran them on 23,000 acres of trees!

sorry, i just wanted to say- thats great! I support this kind of arrangement completely. Most of the cattle in alberta are raised the same, and this is why I'm okay with eating beef.

However, a lot of the beef that goes into fast/processed food is raised in south america, and they do cut down rainforest to make room for the cattle. That's why I do my best to eat fresh, organic and local.
I find that its not more difficult, most of the grocery stores here sell free range and organic stuff.
Also, because it's a little bit more expensive, I buy a little less.... which is good too because then I make less and eat the right amount. It works for me.

 

[MegF.]

Eat local cuz our cattle guys need the dough! As far as when we herd them we destroy the land, there's actually very little of that. Cattle tend to stay to the paths that were already there. They dislike wasting energy to cut across territory. They mostly travel in single file so the trails are fairly small and we bring them in with horses, not trucks so it really doesn't destroy large amounts of territory. Grass grows rapidly up north with the amount of rain they get, so you really don't have any real lasting impression. If the cattle leave, the grass grows back very quickly and cattle chew grass down to around an inch to inch and a half from the ground causing less damage than even horses or ( the worst) sheep which take it all the way to the roots or pull it out completely.

 

[kev1144]

You spend all these years watching that Green Mullet Grey Pantsuit wearing Captain Planet and just when the dolphins need him the most he's nowhere to be found. You would figure Gi would talk to her fellow countrymen and tell them this is wrong, or maybe even Ma-ti get in there and give them "heart", but nothing NOTHING MA-TI!!!! YOU HEAR ME. I was expecting them to come, but after I saw the dolphin being dragged behind the truck followed by guy with michette slashing dolphins throat like they were about to dishonor his sister I shut it off and hid in a dark corner never wanting to be a planeteer again.





Awful Awful stuff angry face

 

[tyflier]

Eat local cuz our cattle guys need the dough! As far as when we herd them we destroy the land, there's actually very little of that. Cattle tend to stay to the paths that were already there. They dislike wasting energy to cut across territory. They mostly travel in single file so the trails are fairly small and we bring them in with horses, not trucks so it really doesn't destroy large amounts of territory. Grass grows rapidly up north with the amount of rain they get, so you really don't have any real lasting impression. If the cattle leave, the grass grows back very quickly and cattle chew grass down to around an inch to inch and a half from the ground causing less damage than even horses or ( the worst) sheep which take it all the way to the roots or pull it out completely.

Not when they are grazing streamside. If you don't believe me just take a walk along the Owen's River or through Horseshoe Meadows or Hot Creek, below the geothermal area, and take a look at all of the collapsing undercut banks with hoofprints in the mud. It happens throughout the high elevation meadows up here every year.

Don't get me wrong...I realize it is a necessary evil, and I am not so obtuse as to deny the benefits of the herds being there, as well...I'm a fly fisherman, and cow manure at streamside makes for very healthy aquatic insect populations.

But herding cows does cause damage...more than herding deer, elk, caribou, etc...

 

[MegF.]

Ture. And for that matter, so do people, so we're pretty much screwed!

 

[plasticknives]

You spend all these years watching that Green Mullet Grey Pantsuit wearing Captain Planet and just when the dolphins need him the most he's nowhere to be found. You would figure Gi would talk to her fellow countrymen and tell them this is wrong, or maybe even Ma-ti get in there and give them "heart", but nothing NOTHING MA-TI!!!! YOU HEAR ME. I was expecting them to come, but after I saw the dolphin being dragged behind the truck followed by guy with michette slashing dolphins throat like they were about to dishonor his sister I shut it off and hid in a dark corner never wanting to be a planeteer again.


Awful Awful stuff angry face

Man, captain planet was totally the best ever. It was so so so ridiculous that it ended up straying into super-freaking-awesome. We used to play "planeteers" all the time and they always made me be Gi 'cause I'm part asian, but that was fine cause she had a sweet power, at least I didn't have to be ma-ti.........what the eff kind of power was "heart" anyways?? I mean, water, air, fire, earth.... sweet.

heart?

Man, that's gotta be the weakest "weapon" ever.....


I can't believe wheeler and linka never freakin got it on either. jeez.

 

[Okeetee_Corn_Snakes]

Yikes. Just...yikes. Seriosuly. Wow....I have nothing to say.

 

[nigel the corn snake]

Excuse my launguage

please excuse my launguage..

But that was ****in discusting i can tbelieve that those little ****s would kill dolphins.
I personally was shattered when i saw this video and to tell you the truth i almost cried.

The disrespecting Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!! :realhot: :realhot: :headbang: :angry01: :angry01: