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This Season Is NOT Going As Planned.....at all...(vent)

starsevol

starsevol

Cohabbing is cruelty...
This is not the first time I have bred corns. I have had fair to moderate success in the past. I never brumated, somehow brumation always scared me. Without brumation I had about a 50-75% success rate depending on the year. Females would lay seemingly fertile eggs and "most" would hatch. Those that didn't would either go bad during incubation, or fail to pip.

This year I brumated the crew for the first time. The break from feeding and cleaning was welcome, and it is conventional wisdom that brumation promotes more successful breeding. Right?

I was to breed 4 females this year. My most anticipated breeding was a granite stripe het amel to a fire het anery and stripe. The female laid 18 small slimy slugs and 2 eggs that later went bad.

My second breeding was a pair of multihet normals. The female laid 15-16 eggs, with 4 slugs. 2 have gone bad but 3 weeks in, the rest look good. I consider this a small victory.

My second most anticipated breeding (and 3rd clutch of the year) was proving out a possible bloodred stripe male to a bloodred female. She had her prelay shed 2 weeks ago today. Since then she has expelled between 8-10 slugs (it's hard to tell when they are smushed to yolk). She's been in the laybox since Saturday, but with the huge number of slugs she's already passed, she might well just be finished.

The fourth and final breeding was the same normal multihet male with another normal multihet female. She had her prelay shed 3 days ago and so far it "looks" like she may lay her eggs within 7-10 days.

Why am I getting so many slugs? They were all brumated for 3 months with a temp range of 60-65 degrees F. Is it me or Murphy causing this? I could SCREAM!
 
Oh boy!! I feel for you :eek1: I hope the last clutch comes out ok.

I've had a female that laid perfect eggs last year have a bad clutch this year, just bad luck sometimes...
 
I guess there are lots of things that can go wrong but I don't think you should blame it on brumation.

Were the animals well fed and fat before brumation?
Are they all of breeding age and size now?
Is this their first year?
What were your brumation temperatures?
Have they been well fed and put on weight since brumation?
Do you know Murphy personally?
 
I brumated this year and got a clutch of slugs aswell... now the same female is double clutching and I'm expecting all slugs but there could well be a fertile egg... or so I hope.
 
I feel so bad for you, starsevol! I'm new to the hobby with hopes of breeding. Your season is everyone's nightmare. I hope your 2nd clutch hatches lots of healthy babies - maybe with interesting surprises, too.
 
wade said:
I guess there are lots of things that can go wrong but I don't think you should blame it on brumation.

Were the animals well fed and fat before brumation?
Are they all of breeding age and size now?
Is this their first year?
What were your brumation temperatures?
Have they been well fed and put on weight since brumation?
Do you know Murphy personally?
Click to expand...

Let's see...
Yes, they were all well fed and hefty before brumation.
They are all breeding age and size, the smallest female was around 350g.
It was the first year for all but the fire female.
Bru temps were 60-65f.
They have been well fed and put on weight since bru. I weigh once a month.
As far as knowing Murphy personally....sometimes I THINK I do!!
 
Be careful, there! Murphy's a hinky dude. Claiming to know him might cause further difficulties. Sh-h-h!
 
Not to one up you Beth but... My most anticipated clutch of the year is down to three eggs that are well past due. And that isn't the kicker. I bought her in a trio 2 years ago. I now know after two years of nurturing that I have the wrong kind of trio; two males and a female! I really wanted the females to produce this year and one did but the eggs aren't hatching. And the other is a guy! Disappointing, frustrating but not the end of the world, I guess. I honestly think what you are going through is harder though because you had all this build up with successful breeding and then eggs/slugs. Can you try for a second clutch with the Granite and Fire?
I agree with Wade that brumating probably isn't to blame. Some animals I brumate and others, that need to put on more weight, I don't. I have the same success/failure either way. I'll keep good thoughts for eggs to come and clutches to hatch.
Terri
 
crackerhead said:
Not to one up you Beth but... My most anticipated clutch of the year is down to three eggs that are well past due. And that isn't the kicker. I bought her in a trio 2 years ago. I now know after two years of nurturing that I have the wrong kind of trio; two males and a female! I really wanted the females to produce this year and one did but the eggs aren't hatching. And the other is a guy! Disappointing, frustrating but not the end of the world, I guess. I honestly think what you are going through is harder though because you had all this build up with successful breeding and then eggs/slugs. Can you try for a second clutch with the Granite and Fire?
I agree with Wade that brumating probably isn't to blame. Some animals I brumate and others, that need to put on more weight, I don't. I have the same success/failure either way. I'll keep good thoughts for eggs to come and clutches to hatch.
Terri
Click to expand...

Ugh, Terri, I am so sorry to hear that. At least your "trio" has a back up male, but that's still a huge disappointment.
Instead of trying the granite stripe and fire again I tried the fire with the bloodred father of the granite stripe. "If" I get eggs, the babies won't be quite as exciting but there will still be a few chances to get a dazzler in the clutch. The fire is blue now, and my fingers and toes are crossed....
 
I'm really sorry to hear of your unfortunate breeding season :0(...I hope all goes well for you next time around...I'm sorry I can't offer any advice..I'm not even in the breeding game yet..
 
Just to add some info my cool down schedule & eggs (not sure if it helps, but might give you more info to work with?) - I brumate all my adult males & females, I had a pretty good egg season this year. My cool down temperature usually ranges between 53 - 55 in the deep of winter to 60 - 63 after a few months (that's closer to spring once it starts to get a bit warmer). That's just the normal range of my basement temp.
 
Oh Beth, I'm sorry this is happening to you :( I've never brumated and have two fertile clutches on the ground and 1 total slug out this year. This is the first year I've had slugs :shrugs:

I think Murphy has been waiving his stick too much this year already, so the next person that sees him, should boot him out into the Ocean, hopefully he can't swim :D

Good luck and best wishes,
 
Sometimes I think that the best way to avoid having your plans ruined is not to make any. Of course, I'll be the first to admit that this advice is stupid, unreasonable, and improbable. You're going to make plans. But I've tried to be cautious in my expectations. After I lost that egg-bound female butter-stripe, I was about ready to hang it up. Then I lost another female, and what's worse, she didn't even belong to me! I have a bunch of eggs in the incubator, but I had an entire clutch go bad on me, and a couple of other individual eggs here and there. And eggs in the 'bator aren't hatchlings on the ground either.

I hope things start looking up, Beth.
 
Of course things will look up. Just maybe not til next year. :p
I should be grateful that all the females look healthy and wonderful with no hint of binding.
And I'm hoping BRenda has a lovely surprise waiting for me when I get home, but I'm not counting on it.

But I am looking forward to getting my 3 new girls, can't wait!
 
I know what you're going through! My most anticipated butter mot X christmas was all slug soup, my Okeetee X christmas went bad except for one egg I'm trying to nurse along, out of 8 hypo/het hypo Baird's there's one with mold that I'm hoping to keep going and my banded girl is finally gravid. She's a first timer, so let's hope for the best. The only clutch that's doing great is my bloodred het ghost X normal het snow, the "what the hell, let's throw these two together" clutch. Why are the important clutches going bad and the other one is fine?? Argh! I hope you get some good news soon!
 
crackerhead said:
I missed the post that announced your "three new girl" acquisition, so spill. Watcha gettin?
Terri
Click to expand...

A 2005 caramel motley het amel female that laid 18 eggs for her previous owner this year. I saw her picture posted over a year ago and fell in LOVE...then I found out her owner was selling her so I jumped....

A 2005 hypo blood female who fits in well with my future plans...

and a granite het stripe and hypo female (or bloodred het granite, hypo and stripe female) that hasn't hatched yet.
 
...Then I lost another female, and what's worse, she didn't even belong to me!...


I don't wish to sound indelicate here, nor do I want to hijack your thread Beth, but what would the protocol be if an animal you borrowed for breeding dies in your care? I don't know that you can fully replace it and maybe it's one of a kind, what then? I've never done a breeding loan so it's new territory for me.
Terri
 
crackerhead said:
...Then I lost another female, and what's worse, she didn't even belong to me!...


I don't wish to sound indelicate here, nor do I want to hijack your thread Beth, but what would the protocol be if an animal you borrowed for breeding dies in your care? I don't know that you can fully replace it and maybe it's one of a kind, what then? I've never done a breeding loan so it's new territory for me.
Click to expand...

I don't know if there's any standard protocol. The snake in question was a Lava het Anery that belonged to Jeff Mohr. I've only really conducted breeding loans with five people: Jeff, Rich Hume, Stephanie Kunder (blckkat), Stephen Wagner, and Joe Cala (Joejr14). These are all great people-- people who are reasonable and who understand the snake game and the risks. I wouldn't participate in a loan with any other sort of breeder. I offered to compensate Jeff for the Lava girl. I really liked that snake, and I'd always hoped that he'd just sell her to me outright someday. As it was, I had her on a multi-year loan. Jeff declined compensation, but I will definitely be sending some stuff his way that will hopefully make up for the unfortunate demise of his girl. And there ARE eggs from her clutch. They're a little iffy, but if I get hatchlings, Jeff will be getting the better end of the numbers and sex ratios.

I don't know how many breeders would let one-of-a-kind snakes out of their collections for loans-- maybe not even rare morphs. My golddust-stripes won't be going anywhere, and the same can probably be said for my cinders. As it is, I'm probably not going to be participating in too many more loans that require shipping. I have enough stuff in my own collection that I don't have time, space, or energy to breed...
 
Aw Dean...
You told me when she was bound. I didn't know you lost her.

There are worse things than clutches of slugs.....
 
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