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Timber Rattlesnake as a pet? Ouch...

elipsis1

elipsis1

Scott
http://www.wcnc.com/video/featured-videos/Man-bitten-by-rattlesnake-airlifted-to-hospital-82708522.html

I don't think venomous snakes make good "pets" but I think people should be allowed to get a special license in order to have one (much like big cats, etc)

What are your guys views on this?

Sometimes, however, I feel that once you open the door to regulation, you just may hurt your own interests... so I am conflicted...

I do want to do whatever it takes to preserve the safe and enjoyable hobby we all share though.
 
Must admit I don't see the attraction myself, but as long as the public are protected then I don't have an objection to other people keeping hots as pets.

Here in the UK we do have a licensing system, where keepers have to be inspected to ensure that the way they're housing the snake is secure and there's no chance of an escape and therefore a danger to the public. Great in principle, but the problem is that the system is administered at local government level. I don't know what the situation is currently, but in the past there were particular councils that flatly refused to issue any licenses in their areas. The cost of licensing was also left to the council. Some amounted to a nominal admin fee, but some ran into hundreds of pounds and were plainly designed to be punitive and put people off.

If it's fairly administered and designed to keep the public safe - and not to constrain or restrict responsible keepers - then licensing is a good idea as far as I can see. Plenty of room for flaws in the system though.
 
I highly disagree on regulation. All liability should be on the owner of the snake though. It should be handled as "You buy it, it is your responsibility".

As for this article I would like to know more about the situation. Was the snakes container in a "snake room" or laying on his kitchen counter? Information like that could be helpful. Sure it was in a plastic container... as are a vast number of snakes are kept. If the snake was in a snake room/area with other reptiles, then dumb*** don't go opening up containers without asking. I would be mad if one of my friends came over and just walked over on opened one of my corn vivs. You just dont do that. If it was in the kitchen on the counter... then yes by all means it is the owners fault.

elipsis1 said:
I do want to do whatever it takes to preserve the safe and enjoyable hobby we all share though.
Click to expand...

In the herp world there are people as passionate about breeding and keeping hots as people are with corns. We are all in this together as herp keepers/breeders.
 
As far as hots go, some of the most beautiful display snakes on earth are arguably hots. As long as they're kept properly by someone who recognizes their risk, I don't see an issue. In regard to this story... As Sheldon said I want to know where the cage was. I agree that the friend made his own bed and slept in it if he went around peering into random cages in a snake room.
 
MalinoisK9 said:
I highly disagree on regulation. All liability should be on the owner of the snake though. It should be handled as "You buy it, it is your responsibility".

As for this article I would like to know more about the situation. Was the snakes container in a "snake room" or laying on his kitchen counter? Information like that could be helpful. Sure it was in a plastic container... as are a vast number of snakes are kept. If the snake was in a snake room/area with other reptiles, then dumb*** don't go opening up containers without asking. I would be mad if one of my friends came over and just walked over on opened one of my corn vivs. You just dont do that. If it was in the kitchen on the counter... then yes by all means it is the owners fault.



In the herp world there are people as passionate about breeding and keeping hots as people are with corns. We are all in this together as herp keepers/breeders.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree- if a cornsnake gets loose, there's no serious danger to human lives in the vicinity.
If a venomous snake gets loose- that's quite the problem.

It's even worse than guns, snakes are living animals, not tools... they are less predictable and can go about on their own.

I wouldn't want to live in a place where any idiot could go out and get a venomous animal.
 
I agree as far as where it was would be a main factor, but honestly. Would any of you walk into a friends house and just start going through stuff? Especially if you knew they kept snakes? I personally wouldn't open anything if it wasn't a cabinet or the fridge. Guess the guy will think twice about opening stuff in someone's house whether it's on the counter or what.

just my 2 cents
 
I think the right to keep hots should have some kind of regulation, maybe just a registry where you log I keep cobras, copperheads etc. But then again I don't know if that would help because some people would keep them any way.

It boils down to it being the responsibility of the owner to make sure hots are kept safely. You need to have them clearly defined in some way.

Also if some idiot knew you kept hots and went poking into tanks anyway then that person is plain stupid and has a potential death wish.
 
I have to agree with Oren... I live in the UK as well and the DWAL system we have in place, though flawed, would not let this situation arise...
Species knowledge is high on the agenda and a letter of recommendation from an experienced keeper is needed...
You have to prove you are a suitable keeper before they will entertain you....
Then there's the check on the place you intend to house them.... No vivs in bedrooms or living rooms for instance....The rule is, room must be locked, and sealed with a warning sign out side and all handling tools must be outside as well... Viewing panel in the door....Fire alarmed... All vivs must be double locked... Each species must have an info leaflet attached to it with scientific snakes name how many are in the viv etc....
Then there's the vet checks and finally liability insurance for £2M with a list of snakes made available so the local hospital can make arrangements if needed...
Any numpty being able to get a snake is a recipe for disaster, and enough accidents and legislation will follow.....
Just think about the python ban that is looming..... Self regulation is the way forward, otherwise people looking for votes get involved...And most of them don't care about the hobby...
 
I think regulation for hot species is necessary to preserve the safety of the general public from the stupidity of some keepers. The reality is that not all keepers are intelligent, and not all hot keepers are particularly knowledgeable or safety-minded. Regulations help to keep down the number of nutjobs and neophytes trying to keep pet rattlesnakes in a box...

BUT...I think that keeping hots is a right that an educated and traqined individual deserves, providing they can prove their abilities by way of a permitting process.

Bitsy said:
Must admit I don't see the attraction myself, but as long as the public are protected then I don't have an objection to other people keeping hots as pets....
Click to expand...
It's the same thing that atracts you to keep non-venomous snakes. Those of us that are attracted to hot snakes are attracted to the beauty, the character, and the presence of the animals. They are every bit as fascinating and beautiful as any morph of colubrid on the market. Even more so than most, in my opinion...
 
In my opinion, venomous snakes can make good pets, if you know what you are doing. For instance, have each LOCKED container labeled with the common and scientific name of its occupants, with a card that you can wear, in case you are bit and unconscious when help arrives, they know what got you. Personally, I don't mind the permit system, but it should be based off of a test, not money, so they can be sure you actually know what you are doing. Of course, I've broken my own rules before, but I make sure that I keep visitors and guests safe.
 
I would agree that hots are often very stunning to look at. I think the king cobra and various types of vipers are beautiful and amazing.

On a side note, I just found out about venomoids, which probably deserves a thread of its own. I am not sure how I feel about venomoids either.

There was a place called "the reptile exchange" or something, near Charlotte selling hots and venomoids. Not sure if it is still in business though...
 
Kokopelli said:
Have to disagree- if a cornsnake gets loose, there's no serious danger to human lives in the vicinity.
If a venomous snake gets loose- that's quite the problem.

It's even worse than guns, snakes are living animals, not tools... they are less predictable and can go about on their own.

I wouldn't want to live in a place where any idiot could go out and get a venomous animal.
Click to expand...
Whole-heartedly agree!..If it's the venom that attracts you to the animal, than odds are you're not in it for the right reasons..Also, everytime I go to Zoo Creatures (a reptile breeding facility in Plaistow, NH) I always see "Reward" signs saying they'll give you money for a tip-off to any local dens. They're so rare as is, and so restricted to secluded areas that it just makes me disgusted to think that the few we have in our mountains will be invaded and capture for the likes of selfish people. I think they should be restricted to Zoo's, medical facilities, and nature...Definitely not owned by the public, regardless of a 'proper' license..
 
Ugh, indeed, venomoids should get a thread of their own if the discussion is going to go that way.

If my husband would EVER be ok with it, I would love to someday keep a couple of copperheads and perhaps a N. kaouthia. Someday, when I have enough experience to be confident in keeping myself and others safe. I do think some regulation of these animals is reasonable, given the number of idiots who try to get into this hobby. I do NOT like the doors this kind of regulation opens up. I'm torn.
 
elipsis1 said:
I would agree that hots are often very stunning to look at. I think the king cobra and various types of vipers are beautiful and amazing.

On a side note, I just found out about venomoids, which probably deserves a thread of its own. I am not sure how I feel about venomoids either.

There was a place called "the reptile exchange" or something, near Charlotte selling hots and venomoids. Not sure if it is still in business though...
Click to expand...

Venomoids takes the conversation to "a whole 'nother level"...

I'm fairly certain of my stance on the venomoid issue, and fully admit it is based more on passion and ideology than scientific research and data. I do, however, reserve the right to chance my stance with the introduction of new data and information... Politically correct enough for you? lol ;)
 
Hot Shopping List

-Rhinoceros Viper (Bitis nasicornis)
-Variable Bush Viper (Blue, Red, or Orange) (Atheris squamigera)
-Eyelash Viper (Yellow) (Bothriechis schlegelii)
-Usambara Bush Viper (Atheris ceratophora)
-Gaboon Viper (Bitis gabonica)

If you can't "handle" them... they might as well be some lookers!

All thats holding us back is that we don't want to do a cross country move with any hots. It's going to be hard enough moving our lives 2,400 miles with 8 snakes and 2 K9's.
 
Snakewhisperer said:
In my opinion, venomous snakes can make good pets, if you know what you are doing. For instance, have each LOCKED container labeled with the common and scientific name of its occupants, with a card that you can wear, in case you are bit and unconscious when help arrives, they know what got you. Personally, I don't mind the permit system, but it should be based off of a test, not money, so they can be sure you actually know what you are doing. Of course, I've broken my own rules before, but I make sure that I keep visitors and guests safe.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't really refer to an animal I keep in a locked enclosure, that can seriously harm me and that I cannot handle a "pet"... that's just terminology, true, but that's the point most of us are talking about... sure you can keep them out of interest or attraction... but they are by no means "safe" nor can be interacted with as one would interact with a pet.
 
Anyone else think the guy who was bitten, should've kept his hands to himself? I bet he's the type to go through your medicine cabinet....

I think if someone is experienced around snakes then it should be permitted to own them. I wouldn't be adverse to a permit requirement in order to own one.
 
Kokopelli said:
I wouldn't really refer to an animal I keep in a locked enclosure, that can seriously harm me and that I cannot handle a "pet"... that's just terminology, true, but that's the point most of us are talking about... sure you can keep them out of interest or attraction... but they are by no means "safe" nor can be interacted with as one would interact with a pet.
Click to expand...

I would. Absolutely an animal that is in a cage, under my direct care and supervision, and wholly dependant upon me for it's survival is a pet.

Whether or not it can harm you shouldn't come into play. Dogs, cats, and a great many other acceptable household pets can cause just as much traumatic injury as a venomous reptile. Some even more.

Whether or not you can physically interact with it shouldn't come into play. I'm fairly certain that a great number of fish keepers would absolutely call their fish "pets", as do keepers of Canaries, finch, and various other birds that are not suitable for handling and direct interaction.

I think your definition of "pet" is far too limited...
 
I know Florida requires a permit. It's $100 per year, and you have to have logged 1,000 hours with a certified venomous keeper.

I've looked into it because a long ways down the road, I would like to have a copperhead and an albino monocled cobra. No, I wouldn't get mates for them. They would be solely for my enjoyment because I find their looks to be particularly beautiful. HOWEVER, I won't be keeping either species until I have a herp room that's completely separated from my house. If, heaven forbid, one got out, I would hate to wake up with a ticked off cobra in my bed. I think hots can be kept by the right people with the right intent, as long as they're willing to do all of the research and jump through all of the hoops required by the government.
 
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