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What are my odds here?

J

Jeepluv77

New member
I had three corn snakes years ago and never had issues with handling them. However, due to circumstances I had to give them to a friend who ended up moving away with them. I recently went to a store to get bedding for my rabbit and guinea pig and decided to look at the snakes. There was a gorgeous albino with a lot of really rich red in her. She is a confirmed female, btw. She's about the size of a pencil and mean as all can be. In the 7 weeks the store had her no one handled her for the last six. She "rattles" her tail and strikes at the first sign of a hand. I bought her simply because they said she would soon be returned to the breeder who, I found out, sells the unsold young to science labs. I couldn't stomach that so she's home with me. However, I'd like to have the type of relationship I had with my prior corns. They were so docile I could wrap them around my wrists and talk walks at parks with them and there was never a fear of them escaping. The most they would do was wrap around my neck with their heads above or next to mine, presumably for a better veiw. I have an emotionally sensitive child here how would be ruin against snakes if she struck at him. I'm raising them to be like me and love all scaled and furry critters. Any tips on how to get little miss thing to settle down? When do I decide enough's enough and give up. I wouldn't let her go back to the breeder but I do have a friend willing to take her and put her in his snake collection. She'd be in a bin in a rack, though, and be handled only when needed. Also, she's an escape artist making it even more difficult to get her out. She bolts up and away anytime a hand comes within her field of perception. I'm scared to death she'll get out trying to get away. I'm sure my cats would love that but I'd hate to see it happen.
 
Some snakes just do not like being and handled and some grow out of it. Sounds like this snake is young so who knows she may calm down one day....or not. If your daughter is extra sensitive I would not allow her to handle the snake. Other than that let this snake settle in for a week or two before even trying to handle. Then when the first few feedings are done start handling in a quiet place daily for short periods. Do not put her down if she bites they can't really hurt you at that age anyway and usually will settle down after a minute or two of acting like complete psycho's. Just be patient and don't get scared it's normal for them to be flighty and are way more afraid of you anyway:)
 
As far as letting her settle in, what do I do about feeding her? The last time the store fed her was Nov 28th, at which point she only got one pinkie. She's got to be starving but I don't ever feed my snakes in their vivs. Part of me wonders if that's a part of her being even rougher than she was before. It's been two days since I first saw her and handled her. She was due to be fed today which I figured I'd do tonight. Do I feed her anyway or is she likely too stressed? If so, do I break the rule of not feeding in the viv or just move her to the feeding tub? It's small enough that I could just set in her enclosure and let her get back out on her own so as to not handle her right after feeding if need be. I do know that the store was giving them the whole night to eat which I also never do since I use thawed. Generally, they had 15 minutes to eat or we tried again tomorrow. After the first time or two the others learned very quickly to eat when fed rather than laze around flirting with it first.

The only problem with keeping her if she continues to bite is that my husband has limited me to one snake. It's essential to me that my boys all learn about different types of animals, especially the commonly feared ones, and that they learn how to appropriately and confidently handle them. I saw another one at a different store that was an absolute gem. Same size but she'd crawl right into your hand and investigate with great interest, showing no fear whatsoever. I just didn't want this little girl to end up as a science lab snake. Even if I take the $50 loss and give her up to the breeder, she'll be safe and alive. If she is one that just will never adjust to handling she'd be happier with him anyway allowed to live out her life in solitude. I just don't know how long to give her before making that decision. I feel she should get a fair chance since it does seem to be fear related more than outright aggression. She doesn't strike at the glass just because you're looking at her and she definitely seems to prefer to just run away. Only when you go to touch her. I did put her back up when she freaked on me tonight because I could feel my heart rate go up about the third time she bit me and knew she'd quickly pick up on it only to escalate her response.
 
On a positive side, it might be a good way to show your kids that they should care for all animals - even the "unlovely" ones. The snake isn't aggressive but acts in defence - it's scared of humans. It may calm down but perhaps it won't. That might be a valuable lesson - that sometimes we have to adapt to animals in order to care for them, rather than expecting them to adapt to us all the time.

Having said that, I have a habitual biter (although her problem is due to an over-active feeding response rather than fear) and she can be pretty wearing to deal with. I use gloves for that one and I wonder if that would help with yours?

Sometimes they can take ages to settle and calm down whn they're that nervous to begin with. You're probably looking at six months before you can get a view on whether she's going to improve and you'll have to keep handling her gently and patiently even when she bites.

It's not a nice decision to make. I sold on a pair of Milksnakes that never calmed down for me and once they reached the quiet of a breeding unit rather than living in my lounge, they behaved like angels. Do you know if the science lab actually experiments on them, or are they just kept for observation and teaching? Some snakes prefer to be left alone and not live in a busy domestic setting to be treated like a pet, so a quiet life in a lab tank might actually be preferable for your lass. Just another aspect to consider.
 
I think it's way too early to pass judgment on this snake's personality. Let her settle in for a week, (which it is now) feed her, leave her completely alone for at least two, possibly three days, and then start gentle, short handling sessions. She most likely isn't "mean," but terrified. Once she learns to trust you, once she knows you aren't going to eat her, she should relax. I've had a _lot_ of snakes, and have only ever had one that stayed disagreeable after three years.

It might help to tell your daughter that the snake is a baby, and is afraid of everything right now, because in the wild everything that she came in contact with, from birds to cats to raccoons to skunks to other snakes- everything! is going to eat her. There is nothing that prepares a baby snake to have a "friendly" interaction with anything. Her only defense is to flee, and if she is trapped, rattle and strike to try to bluff you. This is completely normal behaviour for any baby cornsnake. Tell her that if the snake _does_ bite you, or her, that is is harmless, and doesn't hurt, and doesn't mean that the snake "hates" you.

With babies, I find they generally calm down within a few minutes of being out. So bring her out, hold her gently, after five or ten minutes, put her back. Once you've had her a few weeks, maybe try sitting through a half hour TV show with her in your hand. Let her relax and observe you. I bet she calms down a lot within a few weeks.
 
Thanks for the ideas every one. I'll give her some time and hopefully she comes around. Or that I can talk my husband into letting me have another. Bitsy, the science lab does do experiments on a majority of the animals they "take in". Also, Nanci, she's been here less than 24 hours. It's been a week since the store last fed her. That's why I'm unsure if I should let her settle in or feed her first. I really feel sorry for her and I'm hoping I can undo the damage the pet store did. They were using a snake hook to pick her up for the last 6 weeks and thus allowing her to never have an opportunity to become more comfortable with humans. Her breeder doesn't handle their babies and so she'd only ever been handled twice at the pet store, her first week there, before the entire staff decided they were terrified of her. I was told I could put another baby corn in the tank with her. Is that true(I've researched it but find varying ideas) and, if so will that hurt my chances of taming her a bit? I know dogs tend to do better when they have another dog to follow the example of but snakes aren't quite dogs.
 
No, you shouldn't put another snake in with her. I guess I would give her at least four days from when you got her till when you feed her. Here's a link to a REALLY good Acclimation sheet at VMS.

Do you have a feeding plan? I like to feed snakes in a separate container, especially new hatchlings. You need a small container, the size of a small margerine tub, with air holes (not so big she could get out). In the evening, take her out, put her in the container with the nice hot pink, and leave her alone without hovering over her. She should eat within 15 minutes. If not, reheat the pink, put it back in with her, cover up the container with a dish towel or something, and then set a timer for an hour and don't bother her.

A snake hook. Lucky they didn't injure her!!
 
I do have a feeding plan. I've always fed in a seperate container and giving them about 15-30 minutes to eat. That's was part of my originial question. If I wait another 4 days it'll be 11 days since she last ate. That seems way too long to me. They hadn't fed her at the store since the 28th. This isn't my first snake, though I understand it may appear that way. It's simply my first one with this level off fear. My options right now appear to be remover her to the feeding enclosure which risks stressing her further and she may not eat, or feed her in her cage with runs the risk of escalating her biting by throwing in a food response. At this point I think I'll have to go with the lesser of two poor prospects there. I just don't like letting her wait 11 days between feedings and I don't see that going a long way towards her calming down. She's been eating 2 pinkies every four day. Not sure why it's been so long since her last feeding at the store and they couldn't answer that.
 
11 days will be fine for an otherwise healthy hatchling. It's best to leave her in peace to settle, than feed too soon after she arrives and risk a regurge (which can be life threatening if they continue).

In your place, I'd wait to feed.
 
Thanks, bitsy! I'm hoping she'll come out on her own if she gets hungry enough. I can't even find her right now as she's buried in the bedding somewhere. It's only about an inch thick but I see no sign of her either from overhead or looking through the bottom of the tank. It's a critter cage, though, and I padlocked it to keep the kids out so I'm fairly certain she's still in there somewhere. Just keeping her water full for her and I figure she's bound to come out at some point. Her viv is in between the computer desk and the couch so I'll most likely see her she comes out. Should I keep the lighting on a normal schedule right now or go ahead and cut it off and just run the black heat? I wasn't sure if snakes have circadian rhythms like us so I've had her on a normal cycle thus far just in case.
 
If you've only had her 24 hours and you know she strikes, rattles and tries to escape. Along with you looking in at her moving her viv, even her water she can't be drinking that much that you need to refill (unless it's a very small dish). I agree with all above you are handling her too much, leave her alone and feed in a few days like Nanci suggested. She is probably terrified.
 
I actually haven't even seen her since I brought her home and put her in the viv, let alone touched her. This is all based on her behavior when I handled her at the store, when I got her out of the carrier to put her in the viv, and store employees. The water is evaporating because the air is so dry. I seriously doubt she's touched it. It's only a half cup capacity dish. I bought this set up as a kit for temporary housing until she gets some size. Btw, Nanci, I agree with you on the snake hook which is why I didn't buy it when they recommended it.
 
The last corn I bought also came from a pet store and she was there for 2 months before I finally bought her because I couldn't stand how she was being kept and her scales just looked horrible and she was skinny. Anyway she was only a baby like yours when I got her. She was very scared and would freak out when I tried to hold her and even bit me a few times. That was back in July. Now she is very sweet. She still freaks out a little and tries to run away when I first get her out or if I make sudden movements. But she is soooo much better than she was.

Most baby corns are like this. You can either keep her and see if she calms down like most do within a few months. Some snakes take even a year or so to calm down and then some never calm down. Or if you want an instantly calm snake then your best bet would be to give this little girl a new home and buy a snake that you know is already calm.

Another thing. I notice that snakes act differently in pet stores. So you can't really judge their behavior currectly at the store. My newest kingsnake did a lot of tail rattling at me in the pet store but didn't bite me on either of the two times I held him (two different days). But once I got him home he turned into a biting monster. So it works both ways. They can seem nice but aren't really or they can seem mean but aren't really.
 
I've decided to preempt the hubby and keep her, hoping for the best while preparing for the worst, and get a yearling that's been well socialized and I know for a fact is good with people, kids, and public settings. He's a butter corn who came from a breeder that showed him at expos so I don't foresee any issues with him settling right in here. While it's noisy and rambunctious, it's got nothing on some of the expos I've seen! I figure that way this little girly gets some time to settle in and adjust while we see how she does and the kids still have a snake they can handle. I just can't give up on this one before I see how she's going to do over time. I'd hate to send her to a lifetime of solitude without first finding out for sure if that's just they way she wants it. One quick question, it's been suggested to me to put a peice of fabric of some sort with my scent on it in her cage for her to get used to it. I can see pros to this but I worry about the risk of suffocation. Would this be okay, or even beneficial? I have no problem cutting up a shirt or something if it would work to avoid her becoming trapped/entangled. However, at that point I'd fear the texture would seem like fur to her and she could choke on it trying to ingest it out of confusion. Am I worrying to much or this a no-no?
 
Oh, and for the record they will be in seperate setups across the room from each other. I'm going to be moving her to a 10 gallon as per a suggestion on another thread to put her in a smaller set up. From what a understand a 20L is too big for such a tiny snake. Should work out just fine for the new guy, though. I'm not sure of his length as he prefers to spend his out of viv time curled around an arm, but he's a little over the size of a nickle in diameter so he's substantially larger than the baby.
 
When the time comes to handle her, maybe you can try lowering the lights a little bit. I've noticed that my corns are much more relaxed with me if I'm holding them in a dimly lit room. They seem to be more relaxed and at ease than when they are in a brightly lit room.
 
Karoni, it's funny you mentioned that. I noticed she seemed to be much quicker to run away and to strike when the daylight bulb was on. I wasn't sure if it was the bright light or the extra heat(it's 75w as opposed to the 50w night bulb and was keeping it hotter than I'd like) so I've switched to using only the night bulb. It's now 75 on the cool side and 85 on the warm side. Anywho, she allowed me to mist her todaybefore scurrying under the bedding and, while she still ran, it didn't have the frantic quality she displayed before. She did attempt to strike when I first moved the water bowl(her favorite place to hide under) but that might have just been from being startled. It seems to be a step in the right direction but we still have a long road.
 
My Pumpkinseed, who is a baby amel, was a real pill when she hatched in July. I took on the job of socializing the baby corns at the rescue, so I got to see her full development from egg to present. Every time I opened her bin to clean her water bowl and change her paper she would take a flying leap for freedom, then bite me twice. (Of course, you can't even feel it when they're that tiny.) I think she kept that up for about a month, until just before I took her home. And ever since, she's become the absolute joy of my life. She's sweet, friendly, curious, and almost demands to come out and play on a daily basis. When I open her cage, she slithers up to the top of her vines and waits patiently for me to bring her out. That said, she did strike at me (close-mouthed) a couple feedings ago, when I lifted her driftwood off her to take her out. But that was clearly just her being startled, because she was immediately as sweet as pie as soon as she realized it was just me.

Some babies need a little time. If your little girl turns out to be as sweet as Pumpkinseed in a month or two, you'll be glad you kept her! Good luck!
 
Thanks for the encouragement. I hope she turns out to be a sweetie. I'd love to get a pic and post it. She was sold as a "fancy cornsnake". At first I thought she was an albino but the more I read I think she's hypo- or amelenistic. I don't see a single spec of black on her, she's got red eyes, but her red blotches are a brickred color and she's got an orangish yellow background. I'm just curious as to what color she'd be considered and I'm used to being told so I'm not super familiar with the subtle differences between some of the morphs. I did stumble across two spectacularly colored babies today. Both are bolters, of course, but they don't strike. One is a creamsicle who's got brilliant orange markings on a nearly white background and the other is a motley anery with no trace of any colors besides black, gray, and white right now. They're also both pencil sized so I know their colors are going to change a bit. But with the coloring they have now they're going to be gorgeous, I'm certain. I don't know their sexes, yet. They were both very curious and seemed pretty at ease exploring their tank despite the 7 humans milling around outside of it. The creamsicle actually came to the glass to check us out. The anery had little interest at all in what was going on outside.
 
Sounds like an amel to me! Hypos don't have red eyes, so it wouldn't be that. I'm definitely a fan of amels-- like I said, my glorious little Pumpkinseed is one!

Give her a little bit of time. I know if I were that tiny I'd be scared of the giant mammals at the moment, especially if most of the ones I'd dealt with had picked me up with a scary metal hook! But for the most part, corns are notorious for being very relaxed snakes. Be gentle with her and she'll probably grow up just fine.
 
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