Yay Government health care:(

[wade]

The 85% insured number comes for Obama's propaganda. That is his number not mine.

You haven't answered my question which is really the key issue. Can you name one thing the government does that private industry does not do better. Don't say military because private industry is not involved in that. I am talking about retirement programs, post office, and other areas where the government is competing with private industry. And for that matter why is the government competing with private industry?

 

[Kokopelli]

I think it is also important to remember insurance companies on average only make a 4% profit per year after taxes. In the scheme of things their not quite as fat as most think. They take on a great deal of risk insuring patients especially with the rates of obesity and other life style choices that cause the bulk of health care claims a year. I know for my family of four we pay a little over $200 a month after what our job pays for us, but its a small price when I add up what my sons meds alone would cost not to mention therapy, doctor visits, vaccinations, his nebulizer machine, and equipment among other expenses.

Before I had my kids my job paid 100% of my insurance with no deductible, $5 office visits, $10 hospital visits, and $20 to visit any specialist.

Danielle, rest assured, if it didn't worth their while they the owners and investors in the insurance companies would have bailed.

Israel could be a better place, certainly, but one of the few things I like about it is that it provides treatment for everyone and health insurance is quite reasonable.

Financial considerations should not outweigh the life of a person... I can see how the idea doesn't sound appealing, to pay for another... but God forbid should you ever need it... would you want to be tossed to the streets?

I am not a US citizen, I do know I pay more vat, more taxes, earn less and everything costs more... and even so, health care is not something I would rather not pay- even if I end up never needing it

 

[wade]

Danielle, rest assured, if it didn't worth their while they the owners and investors in the insurance companies would have bailed.

Israel could be a better place, certainly, but one of the few things I like about it is that it provides treatment for everyone and health insurance is quite reasonable.

Financial considerations should not outweigh the life of a person... I can see how the idea doesn't sound appealing, to pay for another... but God forbid should you ever need it... would you want to be tossed to the streets?

I am not a US citizen, I do know I pay more vat, more taxes, earn less and everything costs more... and even so, health care is not something I would rather not pay- even if I end up never needing it

Oren, I agree with you sentiment. We do have health care for all. Anyone from any country can walk into a hospital and receive treatment for free if they are unable to pay. That is not and never has been the question.

 

[tyflier]

The 85% insured number comes for Obama's propaganda. That is his number not mine.

You haven't answered my question which is really the key issue. Can you name one thing the government does that private industry does not do better. Don't say military because private industry is not involved in that. I am talking about retirement programs, post office, and other areas where the government is competing with private industry. And for that matter why is the government competing with private industry?

Got a link to that Obama "propoganda"?

Aside from that...Private industry IS involved in military operations. We've seen how well they handle it. We've also seen how much they abuse it, their employees, and how they are not bound by the Geneva Convention. Wonderful situation that has gotten us... You do realize that there were more privately nhired "nmercenaries" involved in Iraq and Afghanistan than ever before in the history of the U.S....right?

The post office? Hmm...still delivers more letter-mail and small packages to residential addresses on a daily basis than any other competing private corporation. If they have done such an incredibly horrible job of getting mail to it's location, why is it still the first place people go to mail "standard deliveries"?

Retirement programs...Yea...private industry has done a bang-up job in protecting and safe-guarding our retirement funds, investments, savings, and financial security. If the last 12 years haven't shown you that private investment industry NEEDS governmental regulation more than ever before, than nothing will, so I won't bother trying.

But at least this post wasn't ended with a couple of paragraphs that were insulting to the intelligence of anyone that disagreed with you...

 

[tyflier]

Oren, I agree with you sentiment. We do have health care for all. Anyone from any country can walk into a hospital and receive treatment for free if they are unable to pay. That is not and never has been the question.

It isn't free. They cannot refuse you treatment based on your ability to pay, and they cannot require more than a nominal monthly payment. But you have the pleasure of an insurmountable debt hanging over your head for the rest of your life. That's a wonderful feeling, I can assure you...

 

[wade]

Great, thanks for the input Chris, I'm going to bed. Give me He!! while I'm gone.

 

[wade]

It isn't free. They cannot refuse you treatment based on your ability to pay, and they cannot require more than a nominal monthly payment. But you have the pleasure of an insurmountable debt hanging over your head for the rest of your life. That's a wonderful feeling, I can assure you...

You are wrong my dear friend. If you are unable to pay they simply write it off. I know a heroin addict who has spent a great deal of time in the hospital and has never spent a dime. Period. She had to show documentation that proved she had no money and that was the end of the conversation. There are probably a million illegal immigrants that will testify to that fact.

 

[tyflier]

Great, thanks for the input Chris, I'm going to bed. Give me He!! while I'm gone.

As long as you refrain from further insults, Wade, I've nothing to give you hell for. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. You asked me to answer some questions, I gave you the answers that I percieve to be accurate. That's not giving you hell...it's responding to your questions.

And I have made no posts that were arrogant, condescending, insulting, argumentative, nor inflammatory, even in the face of multiple insults from you.

Night, Wade. Sweet dreams.

 

[tyflier]

You are wrong my dear friend. If you are unable to pay they simply write it off. I know a heroin addict who has spent a great deal of time in the hospital and has never spent a dime. Period. She had to show documentation that proved she had no money and that was the end of the conversation. There are probably a million illegal immigrants that will testify to that fact.

OK...that's not something brought about by the HCR. Those people are usually covered by MediCaid, which is how it has always been for those people. As I said a looooooooong time ago...HCR doesn't effect those indigents and illegals. Since they aren't effected by HCR, it would be nice to leave them out of the topic. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors to this conversation because it is what it has always been, and will remain the same under HCR. So why bring it up in a discussion of HCR? :shrugs:

HCR effects those of us that have jobs, pay our taxes, and work our butts off to make ends meet...but still can't afford health care. We make too much for MediCaid, and we make too little for private insurance. Those are the people that will benefit most from HCR.

People like me, with a job, a family, pay taxes, no insurance...I walk into the ER, and I walk out with a lifetime of debt. That's not something I'm making up...it's a fact. And it is THIS fact that HCR will (hopefully) help to change...

 

[wade]

I haven't seen any answers to my questions. Refresh my memory on the insults.

 

[wade]

HCR effects those of us that have jobs, pay our taxes, and work our butts off to make ends meet...but still can't afford health care. We make too much for MediCaid, and we make too little for private insurance. Those are the people that will benefit most from HCR.

People like me, with a job, a family, pay taxes, no insurance...I walk into the ER, and I walk out with a lifetime of debt. That's not something I'm making up...it's a fact. And it is THIS fact that HCR will (hopefully) help to change...

Employers that pay for the insurance of their employees pay that out of the money they would otherwise pay to payroll. People who have jobs that pay that insurance are in effect paying for that insurance. It is not a freebe.

If you go into an ER you walk out owing what was the cost of that medical care. What you are asking for is for somebody else to assume that cost. As an employer I will be the one to do that, Thank me Chris. Sorry I had to lay you off because I can no longer afford your salary.

I really am going to bed.

 

[tyflier]

Employers that pay for the insurance of their employees pay that out of the money they would otherwise pay to payroll. People who have jobs that pay that insurance are in effect paying for that insurance. It is not a freebe.

I never said anything was free. Nobody did. I never said anything about any insurance being free. I'm not even sure what you are talking about here, because nobody ever said anything about insurance being free...

If you go into an ER you walk out owing what was the cost of that medical care. What you are asking for is for somebody else to assume that cost. As an employer I will be the one to do that, Thank me Chris. Sorry I had to lay you off because I can no longer afford your salary.

I really am going to bed.

No, I am not. I am asking to be offered an affordable health insurance option that will allow me to pay a fair cost for treatment, while the rest is paid for by the reasonable monthly payments I would make, just like a private insurance company...except the monthly rates won't be so ridiculously high and constantly growing at an exponential rate that they are outside of the most remote realm of possiblity for someone like me.

I am not asking for anything different than what you have, Wade. I'm just asking that it be made affordable for me to have some, too. You have this very wrong idea that people in favor of HCR want to get something for nothing, and nobody has EVER asked for that.

Why do you think it is so unfair for me to want to be able to purchase an affordable insurance option for myself and my family? Why do you insist on this misconception of "something for nothing" when nobody has ever asked for that?

Even under HCR, I will need to pay into an insurance option. That doesn't change. The thing that changes is that I will actually be able to afford an insurance option that will actually pay for things other than major surgeries, death, and dismemberment. You know, the little things like checkups, exams, medications...the real luxeries of today...

 

[wade]

Go to bed Chris, no body cares.

 

[tyflier]

I haven't seen any answers to my questions. Refresh my memory on the insults.

In Post #24 I address, with a quote, your "key question".

As for your insults...
See here-

The people who support this nonsense are the ones saying "Oh Goodie, somebody else is going to pay for my insurance"

That's your second post in this topic. #11, overall. An obvious insult and attempt to inflame anyone that dares to post a contradicting opinion.

You did it again in your very next post, #15 overall, here-

Anyone who thinks the gov will do it better and cheaper is being very foolish.

Another blatant insult to anyone wishing to express an insult different than your own. And this one is even less veiled.

It is statements like this that always serve to turn these discussions into arguments, and I would really appreciate it if you would refrain from making them. It is one thing to call me, directly and openly, "a real jerk"(exact quote), but statements like those above made by you are deliberate attempts to insult and inflame anyone and everyone expressing an opinion different than your own. It's uncalled for and unnecessary. It also doesn't make for any possiblity of reasonable discourse.

So please either stop participating in threads like this, or stop insulting everyone with a different opinion when you do. It's really starting to get old.

 

[wade]

Good Night Chris, sleep tight. Tell your buddies about how you beat up the big bad Republican. Tell your boss too, just before he lays you off due to insufficient funds.

 

[starsevol]

How about this,
I want a health care system imposed that Congress has to use as well as the rest of us. No more, no less.

 

[tyflier]

How about this,
I want a health care system imposed that Congress has to use as well as the rest of us. No more, no less.

Yes, I would like that too. But than again...this is nothing new. It certainly isn't the first time that congress has passed legislation it has exempted itself from. Sadly, it won't be the last. I would love to see a Constitutional Ammendment that takes that power out of their hands, and forces that no e;ected officila be above the law.

But that has little to do with health care reform, and more to do with the way the legislature operates. That's a completely different problem with an entirely different solution.

 

[tyflier]

Good Night Chris, sleep tight. Tell your buddies about how you beat up the big bad Republican. Tell your boss too, just before he lays you off due to insufficient funds.

Actually, Wade, my boss has had "insufficient funds" due to the collapse of an economy that was established by unregulated corporations and financial institutions. for the last year and change. But we get by.

Unfortunately, it has less to do with health care reform than it does with the need for corporate structure change. But it's a completely different topic whooly seperate from healkth care reform.

 

[Lynnea]

Actually I have to disagree with you on that. Wait until you have a chronic condition or pre existing one.. Then you will be in for all the fun..

Lets say, you are a diabetic and you get a new great job. You get onto their insurance and start working. Well sadly, since you are a diabetic before hand the insurance company refuses to cover any of the medications or care for the diabetes for about 6 months to a year. This comes out of your own pocket.

Or how about your doctor thinks you should be on a new pill or drug to help prevent you from going onto Insulin and the company instead of paying for the more expensive medication tells your doctor they want you to be on insulin instead.
These are actual scenarios that have happened to me in the last 7 years of my life. I have so many problems with the insurance companies due to my ailment.

The second incident, my doctor was pissed and asked the person on the phone where they got their medical degree from. They hung up on him.


Another example, how many late teens and 20 something or people in there 30s here do not have Health Insurance. I can tell you I didnt through out my 20s. i couldnt afford it and most the jobs I had didnt offer it.

Most people do not realize that Good Health Insurance is a luxury of the Middle aged.

Well gosh, lets talk about another country that has free health Care. A friend of mine took his family to Rome. His son got some food with some Pine Nuts in it, the child almost died. My buddy pulled out his credit card and insurance info to be ready and they said it was taken care of due to their Health Care system. There was sigh of relief. There were no problems for them to get the care they needed and it didnt cost them anything.

Why are Americans afraid of Universal Health Care?

Seriously its probably going to cost the average person in taxes a few hundred a year. So I am paying for your kids or my neighbor, thats ok. Its going to a good cause to help my fellow man but serously Most people would spend that money that goes to Health Care in Alcohol, cigarettes or fast food in a year.

It just drives me to distraction when people keep saying "why do we need universal health care"? Well, your scenario is a good example and I agree with you.

In our family, we are middle-aged, self-employed and my husband is a financial advisor who makes a decent income. But because of my "prior conditions", including two c-sections and a hysterectomy, plus removal of a small melanoma, I'm considered very risky! We are paying over $1,600 per MONTH for our health coverage which includes our two children. We have a $6,000 family deductible and no drug program. Now, I ask you, is THAT FAIR??

My husband is from Switzerland, where we still have family--one is a doctor. Their system is also "socialized", although they are the oldest democracy in the world (since the year 1170). So I hate it when people are just so afraid of the government becoming involved in our health care system. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the insurance and drug companies are big business, and that's the bottom line in this country.

At some point, *everyone* is going to have some sort of health issue, particularly as we age. It's a reality, and I think everyone should have access to affordable health care coverage.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Every other industrialized nation is able to cover its population. Why can't we do it? We're supposed to be the richest, strongest, best country in the world.

Fact of the matter is we pay more per capita on health care by a lot, yet rank in the middle or near the bottom of outcome of that care. What we should be doing is looking at all the different models that other countries have adopted and picking and choosing what works and doesn't work and make something uniquely American, but that will still provide the benefits.

Those other countries have been the guinea pigs, we should learn from their successes and failures and implement something. What Congress recently passed won't cut it. I think we should have a single payer system with universal coverage for all.