Can corns eat hamsters?

[Almase]

Can cornsakes eat dwarf hamsters? I dont wanna sound cruel, but I have a couple dwarves that I have had for awhile. I think its time they moved on. If the corn cant eat them I'll just get rid of them some other way.

[Tula_Montage]

Sure they can eat them. Its not like a corn in the wild would think - "Hang on, your a dwarf hamster... your not a squeeky clean white moose so I can't eat you" :grin01:

[Dave123]

I dont wanna sound cruel,


Whats you definition of cruel?

But, seriously I think you should give them away if you don't want them. Yes the snake might eat them but hampsters have sharp teeth and claws and you don't want to hurt the snake. Thats also a mean thing to do, IMO.

[Almase]

lol Montage

Well. My definition of cruel doesnt include feeding a hamster to a snake however, I've been to many animal forums and it seems like PETA runs them all. Everything you do is cruel to them. "Oh! Dont feed the hamster to a snake, the hamster has feelings ect ect ect" But anywho, I have no problem feeding the snake any kind of animal as long as its not something that can damage them or their digestive system somehow. Hell, I go coon huntin and if coon meat is ok, I'll see if I can heat some up a little and try to get it to eat it. haha.....Dwarfs are small. I think they are about the size of a mouse, they are just fatter and fluffier than a mouse, so I dont think it could hurt the snake anymore than a mouse can. I may bring em to a petstore if I can get enough money out of them to buy a feeder or two. But if not then I got food for two weeks. :)

[SkyChimp]

You would feed pets to your snake? I'm sure some kid would take them.

[Tula_Montage]

FYI Many of us here think PETA are wack :cool: - And thats being nice about it.

Feed the hamsters. I would. BUT I would freeze them for at least 24 hours to make sure any bacteria was killed off before feeding to your corn.

[Almase]

lol....I can say some stuff about PETA too. Like I said, I hunt coons lol so PETA and us hunters dont exactly get along either.

Thats an idea to freeze them. However I heard before that freezing doesnt really kill the bacteria, it just stops it from growing more. Im not a scientist, so I do not know personally. Its better safe than sorry however.

Yes Skychimp, some kid would take them. But I dont know any kids and im not attached to the hamsters at all lol. Again, I dont wanna sound cruel to any of you. But when it comes to animals, they have a price limit. For example, I dont wanna waste gas money to bring a hamster to a petshop when I can feed it to my snake. If my cat gets sick then it better heal itself or its gonna die, cause I wont spend money on a free animal. The snake however cost about $80ish, so if something happens it gets a trip to the vet. But I would say anything under about $20 doesnt get any special treatment.

[Dave123]

. For example, I dont wanna waste gas money to bring a hamster to a petshop when I can feed it to my snake. If my cat gets sick then it better heal itself or its gonna die, cause I wont spend money on a free animal. The snake however cost about $80ish, so if something happens it gets a trip to the vet. But I would say anything under about $20 doesnt get any special treatment.

Quote of the month. :grin01:

[Almase]

LOL....I usually get in trouble on forums because I say things like. But I was raised the old fashioned way. You dont take something that you got for free to the vet to spend $300. It just doesnt make sense at all. Now like I said, if its my snake it'll goto the vet. I spent alot of money on it all together and I dont want it to die....Some people are just too emotional when it comes to animals...No offense.

[tyflier]

Hamsters are rodents. Cornsnakes live on rodents primarily in the wild. Feed your snake :grin01: . I would, however, recommend freezing them first...just to be safe...

[Lennycorn]

yeah, You might want to stunn it first then freeze. And keep in mind that the rule of thumb is to feed a snake an food item that is 1 1/2 time the snake girth.

[Almase]

lol, just out of curiosity. How do you go about "stunning" the mouse? Just drop it in the tank from a high distance or something? lol I cought a mouse one time and stuck it in a little plastic jar thingy and shook the crap out of it, but I think that just killed it. (I shook it so I could give it to my cat and it wouldnt run away)

[bull420]

i just grab the mouse by the tail and smak it aganst the edge of a table

[plasticknives]

Sure they can eat them. Its not like a corn in the wild would think - "Hang on, your a dwarf hamster... your not a squeeky clean white moose so I can't eat you" :grin01:


hehe , the image of a squeaky clean little white moose is now i my head and won't get out.

[carol]

I've fed hammies to corns before. I usually co2 them, freeze them, then feed them. Be advised that the average adult dwarf hamster is too big a meal for the average corn, they are about the same weight as an adult mouse, but much wider. So you may be better off just giving them away. Are they friendly?

[Almase]

haha Carol. They are wider than the mice. But they can sure the heck squeeze themselves through smaller holes than mice! Yeah, they are really friendly. I just dont think I wanna drive to the petshop JUST to get rid of them when I have a snake sitting right behind me. You know?

There ya go bull. Just smack em on a table haha. Maybe you can spin them around in a circle really fast like you do cats then drop it in with snake? lol Does that work? Jk. I'll stun the mouse :flames:

[carol]

Friendly hammies seem hard to come by. You may get the pet store to give you several mice for them. I wouldn't feed them off, it is likely they will be too big for your snake and the snake will either refuse or regurge (speaking from experience) you'd be better off trading them for mice. I also don't think hammies would be as easy to stun as mice. I've seen mine take quite a tumble and still keep ticking.

[Lennycorn]

Almase,
I would heed Carol's advice. I just gave you options but Carol has more experience. I would rethink this.

[Almase]

Oh, these two are really friendly. They cost $10 and mice are $2 at that petshop. I think I might be able to get one mouse for each of them. They can take a tumble though. Thats true haha.

[carol]

Ya. I really enjoy the several colonies I keep. I have some hatchlings that refused pinky mice, but will take pinky Dwarf Hamsters, so I keep them all year round and freeze most the pinks for hatchling season. I will feed off some of the younger ones to the corns but by the time they reach adult size they are too big. Then if I need to get rid of them I sell them if they are friendly and if not I give them to the larger kingsnakes or larger ratsnakes. :)

[tricksterpup]

Oh, these two are really friendly. They cost $10 and mice are $2 at that petshop. I think I might be able to get one mouse for each of them. They can take a tumble though. Thats true haha.
you know, it might be smarter to actually talk to a pet shop and trade for mice. maybe you can get 6-7 mice for the price of these guys in trade. You are thinking just sheer pleasure of killing your hamsters and not thinking on how to turn this around and either make a profit for yourself to feed your snake or just help it out.

[Almase]

The petshops usually buy pets buy for like 3 tenths of the cost or something like that. I wouldnt be able to get 6-7 $2 mice for the price of one $10 hamster. I would be able to maybe get two mice for both the hamsters. But why bother trading when I can just buy the mice, its not that much money. Besides that means I have two little hamsters I can feed or torture for my own pleasure. (Satire humor)

[tyflier]

Consider that:

A-Most pet shops don't "pay" for their mice...at least not directly. 3-4 mice per hamster seems like a fair business trade. Something that you can charge $10-12 a pop in trade for something that cost nothing but feed to produce.

B-Mice will be better for your corn. As stated earlier, hamsters are too large for the average adult corn.

C-Get live mice in trade and you lose nothing in sadistic pleasure, but gain 6 or so weeks of food rather than 2.

To me, after reading the VERY knowledgable information presented by Carol recently, it seems a "no brainer" to at least make a call to the pet shop and ask them if they'd be willing to make the trade. You've really nothing to lose and everything to gain...

[Almase]

lol, I'll call em. Im not saying I wont...But that "sheer pleasure of killing" thing is BS. I dont kill for sheer pleasure. I sacrifice for pleasure. Big difference. (Again satire humor) I think trick read something wrong, and then you took what I said wrong also....And BTW I had no intentions of giving the snake a hamster diet. I only asked the question cause I have two hamsters. I just dont want you all to think I was gonna buy hamsters all the time to feed. That'd be expensive. heh heh

[tyflier]

I caught your humor. My "sub-topic 'C'" was meant as a joke. I realised you were kidding...the "(satire humour)" helped, but I got it ;).

[Almase]

lol, Ok. Just wanted to make sure no one thought I was weird or nothin like that. I mean I've seriously considered skinning a mouse because I think a mouse pelt would look kinda cool and different hung up on my wall. But thats no reason to think a guy is sadistic is it? I mean its just a hobby like hangin up deer skin. :)

[tyflier]

It's only sadistic if the mouse is still alive, you use a dull knife, and you soak the still breathing critter in a vat of lemon juice after skinning... :sidestep:

[Almase]

haha. Im glad snake owners have a sense of humor. I was in a hamster forum when I got my hammies and I couldnt joke about anything relating to animals. I think people who own carnivorous animals know more about life and such than herbavore owning people. I mean we watch animals kill other animals and we understand better that that is how nature works. Animals kill another animal to survive. If I would of went in the hamster thing and questioned if a snake could eat a hamster I would of got yelled at by everyone and maybe banned lol....I did eventually get banned but it was because we were talking politics and my view on politics is the same with animals. Kill your enemies before they kill you. After all humans are animals too. Its the way things work. -_-

[Almase]

Oh, what I mean by kill your enemies is in war, I dont mean literally to go out and kill somone you dont like. lol

[tyflier]

My sense of humour and my understanding of life's harsh realities have nothing to do with my being a snake owner. In fact, I might eb a snake owner because of those things, but definitely not vie-versa.

My sense of humour and understanding of harsh reality comes from growing up in a very tough neighborhood with 2 brothers and a mother that had a quicker wit than anyone I've ever met. We survived in 1 of 2 ways...you made your enemy laugh(or embarrassed, in some cases) or you beat them to within inches of their lives. Either way... :grin01:

[SaulsMom]

I mean I've seriously considered skinning a mouse because I think a mouse pelt would look kinda cool and different hung up on my wall. But thats no reason to think a guy is sadistic is it? I mean its just a hobby like hangin up deer skin. :)

The Herp store I visit actually has a display of taxidermied mice (OK, I'm sure that's not an adjective) hanging over the register, complete with little teeny halos and wings. There's a taxidermy class you can take to learn how to get your own wittle moosie angels. My Kindergartner really wants me to take the course so that we can decorate the Christmas tree.

I don't think she's psycho. Just really into furry angels.

Find a taxidermist. Mount away. You won't hear me complain.

SaulsMom

[Almase]

lol....Well, thats good you grew up that way. I mean its kinda sad. But its good for a person to understand the "harsh realities". That reminds me of what this radio talk show host I listen to talked about once. About when he grew up in Brooklyn I think, he mentioned there would be bullies in the bathrooms sometimes that would pick on people, or actually take their money so he said he used to go in there with some kind of joke and talk to the bully while he was going to the bathroom. lol Kinda funny. Can I ask your age?

[tyflier]

I'm 33. It says that under my avatar...

[Almase]

lol Saulsmom, thats funny. I would need one of those exacto knives for a mouse. haha. Oh, I didnt see that. I was thinking you were older.

[kev1144]

Can cornsakes eat dwarf hamsters? I dont wanna sound cruel, but I have a couple dwarves that I have had for awhile. I think its time they moved on. If the corn cant eat them I'll just get rid of them some other way.




Coooooooooooooold Blooded


But that's mad dog

[starsevol]

lol....I can say some stuff about PETA too. Like I said, I hunt coons lol so PETA and us hunters dont exactly get along either.

Thats an idea to freeze them. However I heard before that freezing doesnt really kill the bacteria, it just stops it from growing more. Im not a scientist, so I do not know personally. Its better safe than sorry however.

Yes Skychimp, some kid would take them. But I dont know any kids and im not attached to the hamsters at all lol. Again, I dont wanna sound cruel to any of you. But when it comes to animals, they have a price limit. For example, I dont wanna waste gas money to bring a hamster to a petshop when I can feed it to my snake. If my cat gets sick then it better heal itself or its gonna die, cause I wont spend money on a free animal. The snake however cost about $80ish, so if something happens it gets a trip to the vet. But I would say anything under about $20 doesnt get any special treatment.


I find this disturbing. Before anyone labels me a PETA supporter or an HSUS supporter, be assured that I am not. I loathe Ingrid Newkirk and hopes she gets what coming to her.
But I am a firm believer in RESPONSIBILITY. No matter the cost of an animal, it deserves basic care. Basic care includes vet care in case of illness or injury. In many towns, failure to provide basic care for an animal, free or not, constitutes animal cruelty. If found guilty penalties include fines and/or jail time. I DO agree with this. This person may end up paying more for a "free cat" than he ever imagined!

[Almase]

Wait wait wait. Before you even start in on me. Let me tell you I do take care of my animals. My cats are barn cats. They live on their own. The only thing I do is feed them. If they go out in the woods and get screwed up from a coyote or something, I aint takin the damn cat to a vet, if its gonna die I aint gonna pay for some medicine to put it to sleep, im gonna shoot the damn thing. But of course I dont REALLY own a cat anyways. I mean who owns a cat? They come and go as they please. As for the hamsters, I just CANNOT see paying $100 because it has a lump on its side or something. THat is stupid. Call it cruel if you want, I'll find out what the lump is but its not going to vet. If its fatal I'll kill it myself. It has nothing to do with cruelty, it has to do with people being raised to soft today. Besides that im not rich. I have horses and hounds and they come WAY before a hamster or a cat. So dont tell me I dont take care of my animals, or I am cruel without knowing me there buddy.

[tbtusk]

Okay, before everyone says "aw its a little 14 year old that will cry if his little mouse dies" I assure you that 's not the kind of person I am, but I do have my opinions. And I agree that PETA is insane (in a bad way), and I am not anything like a supporter of them, especially after watching my ball python devour live mice (she wouldn't take frozen).

My ball python escaped quite a few years ago and (besides losing my parents 15 grand after scaring the buyer of our house who somehow learned the "python" escaped) we bought 2 live mice to attract her back. She never came so we kept the mice. We had them for a year or so and then one got a tumor on his neck. We brought it to a specialty vet because everything deserves to live and we were responsible for the little guy. The mouse was worth his weight in gold. We paid something like $300 for the vet to do surgery on the mouse. It was so small they used the cap for a needle as the tube to administer the anesthetic.

Anyway my point is that I think you should take care of any animal you have. I'm not saying that feeding your hamsters to your snakes is horrible. Your going to feed your snake something so I see no problem with feeding the hamsters. Oh, and I would take care of the cats, but you have your opinions and I see nothing wrong with that. And killing the rodent with a fatal disease is not bad either since they would probably be "put down" in anycase.

[tyflier]

I gotta tell ya'...I tend to agree with Almase. While he may be a bit "abrasive" in the way he says it, his logic is sound. I have a bunch of mice. If any of them get sick, they are getting killed, bottom line. And I won't feel the least bit guilty about it. I'm not spending $100 on a sick MOUSE, when I can go to the store and buy 50 of them for that price. It simply doesn't make sense. The only thing that would suck about it would be telling my daughter, but even SHE, at 2 1/2, knows that things die. She gets it.

From his story, it is clear that the cats he refers to are not your typical house cat like the lady down the street owns. These are basically feral cats that only stick around because he hasn't chased them away. They use his barn for warmth and his generosity for food. That's not a pet. If I throw some peanuts out in my yard and attract a squirrel that decides he likes me enough to stick around, I am certainly not going to try and bring the thing to a vet should it get sick.

There is a difference between a "companion animal", a "working animal", a "pet", and stray that you feel sorry for. If I give a stray some food, it should consider itself lucky...I already spent too much on it...

[tbtusk]

No, I agree with the mouse stuff (and possibly on the cat stuff, I don't know). What I'm saying is that in my case my whole family had those animals as pets and we felt we had to take care of them. In general I would not pay much of anything to take care of a mouse that was not a pet.

As for the other stuff I'm not sure and that's your choice, so I don't want to get into an arguement.

[Almase]

Thanks Tyflier, that saved me alot of writing haha.

[starsevol]

Wait wait wait. Before you even start in on me. Let me tell you I do take care of my animals. My cats are barn cats. They live on their own. The only thing I do is feed them. If they go out in the woods and get screwed up from a coyote or something, I aint takin the damn cat to a vet, if its gonna die I aint gonna pay for some medicine to put it to sleep, im gonna shoot the damn thing. But of course I dont REALLY own a cat anyways. I mean who owns a cat? They come and go as they please. As for the hamsters, I just CANNOT see paying $100 because it has a lump on its side or something. THat is stupid. Call it cruel if you want, I'll find out what the lump is but its not going to vet. If its fatal I'll kill it myself. It has nothing to do with cruelty, it has to do with people being raised to soft today. Besides that im not rich. I have horses and hounds and they come WAY before a hamster or a cat. So dont tell me I dont take care of my animals, or I am cruel without knowing me there buddy.

I am NOT starting in on you. I only stated that I found your post disturbing and stated the possible repercussions for not providing vet care to an animal. I realize barn cats are not pets, and even getting an injured one into a cat carrier for transport is nearly impossible even if you wanted to provide care for it. I don't know what the laws are in regards to barn cats but I would much rather see one shot and killed quickly than left to suffer with injuries or a fatal illness.
I also never said you don't take care of your animals. Please show me what I said that little nugget?
Also, rodents are not currently covered under ANY humane laws. I still believe that even lowly rodents should be treated humanely and killed as painlessly as possible when their time comes.
I'm also not a "buddy". If anything, I am a "buddette" AND old enough to be your mother!

[tyflier]

No, I agree with the mouse stuff (and possibly on the cat stuff, I don't know). What I'm saying is that in my case my whole family had those animals as pets and we felt we had to take care of them. In general I would not pay much of anything to take care of a mouse that was not a pet.

As for the other stuff I'm not sure and that's your choice, so I don't want to get into an arguement.
Don't sweat it...I don't argue. I might debate(alot), but I don't argue...t's pointless. Nothing wrong with different opinions.

FWIW...I agree with you on the "pets" classification. Trust me...if anything was going wrong with one of my snakes, which I classify as companions AND pets, I would spend whatever is necessary to get it fixed, regardless of the cost in comparison with the cost of the snakes. The value is in the love, not the money. My mice are different. They are not pets. They are a means to an end...they simply provide food for my REAL pets. They were purchased with the full understanding that they may very well not last more than a couple of years, and that's OK...

[Almase]

Whoa lady, I didnt ask if you were old enough to be my mom. Im not trying to hook up with you or nothing. No need to tell me you're too old. Then whats the problem?I think I said earlier somewhere that if an animal is too sick I'd shoot it. Im sure I did. A rodent is a rodent. You said basic care includes the vet. I said I wouldnt take a rodent to a vet so there for you did say I dont take care of my animals. :) Now show me where I said I would let the animal suffer to death like you seem to be implying. I just said I wouldnt take it to the vet. And again, somwhere I wrote that I'd shoot the animal. Or maybe I didnt write that because I thought people would get offended by it. I dont know.

[starsevol]

You never stated that you would shoot an animal to end its suffering in THIS thread. And THIS is the thread I read.
I also stated that vet care was considered basic care UNDER HUMANE LAW.
That was not me passing judgement on you, that is the definition of basic care under the law.
As far as telling you what the law is, that was in regards to the CAT.


Also please show the quote where I specifically told you that you don't take care of your animals. Please use the quote feature.

[tyflier]

By Almase:
...My cats are barn cats. They live on their own. The only thing I do is feed them. If they go out in the woods and get screwed up from a coyote or something, I aint takin the damn cat to a vet, if its gonna die I aint gonna pay for some medicine to put it to sleep, im gonna shoot the damn thing....

by starsevol:
...I am a firm believer in RESPONSIBILITY. No matter the cost of an animal, it deserves basic care. Basic care includes vet care in case of illness or injury....

The implication of Almase not taking responsibility for his animals is there.

Now...let's please stop arguing about it, before it gets out of hand, and enjoy the conversations...please ;).

[Almase]

Look lady, I think you're getting the story mixed up. You said that basic care crap, (which I give "basic" care to the animals that arent rodents). You said rodents do not have any humane laws or whatever it was you said. So I am not doing anything wrong at all. The cats like I said, are barn cats, they are not indoor cats. I do not own them. I just feed them and let them live around the barn because they catch mice from eating the grain and chewing stuff up. So all my animals do get taken to the vet except for the ones which you said I am not required to take to the vet (rodents) because there is no law for it. But let me make it clear that if I had to take them to the vet, I still wouldnt. I'd kill the little bastards myself rather than get a $300 vet bill for a $2 mouse that is going to die soon anyways. Do I make myself perfectly clear to you so that we do not have anymore misunderstandings?

[diamondlil]

Look lady, I think you're getting the story mixed up. You said that basic care crap, (which I give "basic" care to the animals that arent rodents). You said rodents do not have any humane laws or whatever it was you said. So I am not doing anything wrong at all. The cats like I said, are barn cats, they are not indoor cats. I do not own them. I just feed them and let them live around the barn because they catch mice from eating the grain and chewing stuff up. So all my animals do get taken to the vet except for the ones which you said I am not required to take to the vet (rodents) because there is no law for it. But let me make it clear that if I had to take them to the vet, I still wouldnt. I'd kill the little bastards myself rather than get a $300 vet bill for a $2 mouse that is going to die soon anyways. Do I make myself perfectly clear to you so that we do not have anymore misunderstandings?
Regardless of your personal feelings about animals, you could perhaps stop and think a little about your style of writing on here, because you stated yourself you've been banned from other forums. There's no need to use bad language and it will result in a ban

[tyflier]

Look lady, I think you're getting the story mixed up. You said that basic care crap, (which I give "basic" care to the animals that arent rodents). You said rodents do not have any humane laws or whatever it was you said. So I am not doing anything wrong at all. The cats like I said, are barn cats, they are not indoor cats. I do not own them. I just feed them and let them live around the barn because they catch mice from eating the grain and chewing stuff up. So all my animals do get taken to the vet except for the ones which you said I am not required to take to the vet (rodents) because there is no law for it. But let me make it clear that if I had to take them to the vet, I still wouldnt. I'd kill the little bastards myself rather than get a $300 vet bill for a $2 mouse that is going to die soon anyways. Do I make myself perfectly clear to you so that we do not have anymore misunderstandings?
Relax...there is no reason to get angry about a simple misunderstanding and difference of opinion. Being this aggressive towards a fellow forum member isn't going to solve any problems or accomplish any goals, so please, just chill out...

[starsevol]

By Almase:


by starsevol:


The implication of Almase not taking responsibility for his animals is there.

Now...let's please stop arguing about it, before it gets out of hand, and enjoy the conversations...please ;).

tyflier pointed this out. I formally apoligize for this. In the initial post I believed that the barn cat was a housepet, for one thing. From what you posted, you said an animal that cost less than $20 won't ever see a vet. Well, most housecats and many dogs kept as pets cost less than $20 and THAT was what I found disturbing. Understand now?

You never said that you wouldnt take the hamsters to the vet. You said it wasn't worth the gas money to take them to a pet shop. That was slightly disturbing to me, but not much! I'm not a huge hamster person anyway. The biggest problem you might have in feeding your snake the hamsters is the chance that your snake might like the hamsters so much, it might not want mice anymore. (I've heard it happens).

[Almase]

lol, I said I got banned because we were talking about politics. I am a far right conservative and the LARGE majority of that forum was liberal and they couldnt keep up with me so they complained basically because I said kill the enemy on their own turf before they kill us on ours. I mean tehre was ALOT more to it than that. But I gave all the reasons why and they just, well they were libs and they couldnt debate me so they told on me. So I didnt get banned because of what I said about animals. You just have to understand I am a very blunt person and really I dont care if you think im cruel or not. But you're not going to accuse me of being cruel. You can think it all you want however. Im not trying to start an argument over this.

[Tula_Montage]

Here we go again. I was going to PM the thread starter and suggest they tone it down a bit. The way his views were expressed was rather blunt IMO. But hes perfectly entitled to them. So accept it and move on.

But whats the point :shrugs: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/tula-montage/beatdeadhorse5.gif

Lets not dig the hole any deeper

[diamondlil]

I'm not accusing you of breing cruel, I'm asking you to tone down and not use bad language.

[Almase]

Well, I guess when I said under $20 I wasnt referring to cheap dogs. That was more along the lines for, rabbits, mice, hamsters, frogs ect ect. If I had a house cat (which I cant cause my dog would kill it) it would go to the vet because I would buy a good cat, something expensive like a Siamese. I wouldnt get it licensed or whatever. I would again use my excuse "But really, who owns a cat? They come and go as they please" lol. Thats a good one to use. Just act surprised if humane society comes over and you have a cat with no license inside. Cats own themselves. ;)

lol, beating a dead horse.

[Almase]

Oh, about the bad language haha...Sorry, sometimes it just comes out. No F bombs though.

[diamondlil]

Kudos for the apology! Now where are the pictures of your horses and dogs for the general chit-chat? It sounds like you live in a rural area, so people like me who are stuck in boring places love to see pictures of the places luckier people live in!

[starsevol]

Well, I guess when I said under $20 I wasnt referring to cheap dogs. That was more along the lines for, rabbits, mice, hamsters, frogs ect ect. If I had a house cat (which I cant cause my dog would kill it) it would go to the vet because I would buy a good cat, something expensive like a Siamese. I wouldnt get it licensed or whatever. I would again use my excuse "But really, who owns a cat? They come and go as they please" lol. Thats a good one to use. Just act surprised if humane society comes over and you have a cat with no license inside. Cats own themselves. ;)

lol, beating a dead horse.

Then I am truly sorry. I thought you meant "any" animal. My sisters free adopted greyhound was the first thing I thought of! I did have a little mutt cat once who thought he was a dog. Came when called, greeted us at the door, and sat up and begged for treats JUST like a dog would. I still miss the bugger!

[Almase]

Well, the pics are on my myspace profile. www.myspace.com/almaseamir
I took alot of my horse pics off though and just left up one....I have some greyhounds over here where I live. My mother also volunteers for the greyhound rescue and she owns three herself. Good, now we're all friends again....Since we're on this humane topic though, you know something I saw at the farm store that I laughed about? You know those humane cages for catching raccoons and cats or whatever large animal. I saq one of those, but it was a little tiny one made for catching mice. I thought to myself, "Why would somone want to humanely catputre a mouse? If you catch it to release it it will come right back inside. Is it really worth the walk to get rid of it way out in the woods when you can just get a real mouse trap and then throw it away or feed it to a cat?" But I think now that I have a snake maybe people get them to feed to snakes, or hawks or something.

[starsevol]

Some people actually do live trap mice and let them go miles away. Makes em feel good. You really shouldn't feed a wild caught mouse to a snake. Too many parasites and the possibility of diseases.

[diamondlil]

Oh lord, now I have a confession...............a few years ago I got a lovely silver hamster for the boys. I got bitten by I don't know how many in my youth, I don't like them. A friend had a really tame one, and so my kids wanted one. I held the damn thing every day, got it really tame, then it's behaviour suddenly changed. It was a monster, trying to bite every time we got near it. The boys confessed they'd been waking it up by poking it with a pencil when I was on nightshift and asleep during the day, because they wanted it to come out to play. I had to put it in a big tank, and cleaned it out by luring it into a humane trap with chocolate spread so I got to keep my fingers intact. If I'd have had the snakes then I know it would have 'disappeared' into the freezer

[starsevol]

Well at least you know why it got mean. I probably would have sat the kids down for a "talk".

[Almase]

LOL Now you see diamond everything you just said there would get you in trouble in the hamster forums. They would be all over you "Kids like that shouldnt have pets....You cant feed sweet stuff to hamsters!.....How dare you want to feed it to a snake!" lol Those were the kind of people in the hamsters thing. Everything you say is cruel. My little hammies are really nice though. They dont bite, but they will start sniffing sometimes and nibble, but they cant break the skin. People were REALLY serious about hamsters. They were the kind of people who didnt want anyone to breed hamsters unless they were professional breeders. I understand how snake people would be opposed to people breeding snakes because its not as simple as just dropping the opposite sex in like it is with rodents. People flip out! "You cant breed a hamster, theres alot of work in it" lol no theres not, you got amale and a female, they do it and make babies, take away the male. Simple as that. I've bred em and mice before but people make it sound like rocket science to breed a rodent. Snakes I couldnt do though. I've seen settups of how people do lizards and half burying the eggs, and all the lights ect ect. That takes work.

[diamondlil]

Well at least you know why it got mean. I probably would have sat the kids down for a "talk".
Erm, more like ranted at the little 'darlings' about how habsters don't like to be pestered, as they should have known from the hamster care book I got for them along with the rodent I never wanted in the first place!

[starsevol]

Almase, people who spend time in pet forums do it because they are passionate about that kind of pet. There are hamster people just as anything else. They love hamsters more than other animals, for whatever reasons. I love ALL animals, but my 3 main passions in life are corn snakes, rats (yes I'm wierd) and politics.

Kids make mistakes. I would have sat the kids down and told them WHY they shouldnt try to wake up the hamster with a pencil. Let the kids see it through the pets eyes. Let the kids see their mistake.

[starsevol]

Erm, more like ranted at the little 'darlings' about how habsters don't like to be pestered, as they should have known from the hamster care book I got for them along with the rodent I never wanted in the first place!


Orrrrrr, I would do THAT!!!!
LOL

[tyflier]

Can we all hold hands and sing "Kum-Baya" now?;)

[Almase]

lol, yeah I know what you mean Stars, and I understand how some of them are opposed to "backyard breeding" because of certain reasons. But my point was that they get really anal about it. Whats your political affiliation if you dont mind my asking?

[starsevol]

We all tend to get anal about things we are passionate about :)

I am a fellow rightie.

[Almase]

Good. Atleast if there is a political discussion I might have somone to support me maybe. lol The hammy forum I was all by myself but that was no problem at all. I tend to be far more right than most conservative. You ever heard of Michael Savage?

[starsevol]

Hasn't everyone ? LOL

[Almase]

lol....Everyone should listen to him. But im right about up there with Savage in my political viewpoints. And as you can understand from listening to him, I kinda make alot of people mad with what I think should be done. Savage is awsome though.

[Tula_Montage]

lol....Everyone should listen to him. But im right about up there with Savage in my political viewpoints. And as you can understand from listening to him, I kinda make alot of people mad with what I think should be done. Savage is awsome though.

Savage by name, Savage by nature ;)

[starsevol]

Savage is as Savage does... :grin01:

[Almase]

Savages :shrugs:

[carol]

Can we all hold hands and sing "Kum-Baya" now?;)
Na, I think it would be more fun to debate/argue what the difference is between debating and arguing. :rofl:

[tyflier]

Na, I think it would be more fun to debate/argue what the difference is between debating and arguing. :rofl:
How dare you argue with me... :sidestep:

[Almase]

I just called the nearest petshop and the lady says "Uhhhh, we dont take in just two hamsters" LOL I think it was the same lady that sold me the snake cause she didnt really seem to know too much about what she was talking about. She told me I could feed it the mice I catch at home. She told me something else that didnt really make sense. I think I'll call back tomorrow and speek with somone else.

[kev1144]

so what are you going to do with the hampsters?

[Daeraelle]

Savages :shrugs:

Exactly. ;)

[Almase]

Well, I guess I'll call petshop tomorrow and ask for the manager because I deal with her when I get the dog nails clipped. I'll ask her. If she confirms they will not buy them then i will try one more petshop. Because I only live near two. If they dont take them then I think I'll ask a couple friends on myspace. If they dont want them, then its off to the freezer they go.

[tricksterpup]

Well, I guess I'll call petshop tomorrow and ask for the manager because I deal with her when I get the dog nails clipped. I'll ask her. If she confirms they will not buy them then i will try one more petshop. Because I only live near two. If they dont take them then I think I'll ask a couple friends on myspace. If they dont want them, then its off to the freezer they go.
If they are a pair why not breed them and get the pinkies from them? Make them work for a living in your house. Why are these such a disposable pet for you?? I am sorry if you got easily bored with these guys, what is going to stop the boredom with your snake?

[Almase]

lol...Well, I dont think they opposite sexes. I've had them for along time. To be honest with you the hamsters were an impulse buy. I've always liked reptiles and amphibians. I wont get bored with a snake because I've had a snake before and I really liked it. But I moved down to Georgia and had to get rid of it because I was living with my mother and I couldnt get it down there. I think I also got the hamsters because I had a gf and I thought I needed a cute pet for when she came over. LOL It did score me some points having a cute pet. haha I just dont want the hamsters anymore. I want to use their tub for my snake. I have a few tubs over here (because where theres horses theres tubs) and I am planning on making a neat little settup for my room with tubs. I can get some maybe 4inch wide pvc pip and connect it to a bunch of tubs thruought my room. That way I can have one large tub for like the living room for the snake. I can make like a small bucket or something for his hide (A couple of them) and make other little rooms. You know what I mean? I think it will be kinda a fun project. I got the materials. Except the pipe, but that isnt a problem. You guys think thats a good idea? It would be more like a den kinda deal with tunnels like some snakes live in. I dont know if Corns are underground tunnel snakes though. But im sure it'd love the settup. What do you all think?

[starsevol]

Just my opinion here.....let the chips fall where they may,,,,

You have 2 FRIENDLY hamsters that arent hurting anyone that you are tired of after buying them impulsively for the sole reason to impress a girl......

You want the tub they reside in so you can make some kind of funky habitrail for your snake, which it really doesn't need in the first place.

If you can't get a petshop to buy them you want to feed them to your snake, even though there is a chance your snake might not want to go back to mice later.

Sounds a little irresponsible and immature to me, to tell you the truth.

I hope you at least CO2 the poor things first and don't throw them into the freezer alive. That really IS a cruel death.

[tom e]

Agreed.
I also wonder if your new desire to feed your hamsters away came after you were booted from the hamster forum?
Maybe (seeing as how you're a new corn snake owner) that's the blackmail that has everyone biting their tongues for you here?
:shrugs:
I'm sure you're a swell guy (despite your presentation) but you seem like you're trying to bait people.

[Almase]

That was not the sole reason to impress the girl. Impressing had nothing to do with it. lol how do you impress somone with a hamster. It was just a cute little thing I thought she'd like. Cause she likes little rodents. Im not going to start in on this again or I am going to lose my temper. It has NOTHING to do with immaturity. What the hell am I supposed to do with two hamsters I am getting rid of if no one will take them? Personally I dont care if you think its cruel or not. I'll smash the little bastards under my foot if I feel like it just to piss you off. So can it on how I treat a hamster. Theres people dying in Iraq, there are child slaves in China, there are people kidnapped for sex slaves in Ukraine and all you talk about is if I CO2 a hamster!?

Why would I wanna feed my hamster to a snake just cause I got booted? Where is the logic? Are you an idiot? How is that "blackmail"? Do you know what that word means? I didnt try to bait anyone into anything. I simply asked a question and things got carried further and further away from the topic. What the hell is the big deal if its a hamster or a mouse? Seriously? How is it cruel if I wanna feed a pet hamster but not a feeder mouse? Is it the word "Pet" that gets you guys going? What if I bought the hamsters as feeders to begin with and I just didnt have a snake at the time? Is that better? And I am not a new cornsnake owner. I just got one again since along time ago. See, what I said to Stars is "baiting" her.

[tom e]

LMAO.

Firstly, I know people are dying in Iraq, I've seen it first-hand. I don't post much about it here because this is a corn snake forum, not because I care more about your hamsters.
I understand you're a young guy with some radical ideas trying to find out who he is and hopefully find his place and people that love him. Best of luck to you in that regard. I hope you change the world for the better and everyone admires you for it.

For a start, you might want to just reread the things you type, to see what kind of respect you're showing other people. That won't compromise your ideals or opinion a bit.

As far as the hamsters go, I don't really care what you do with them as much as I care how you treat people here.

And "accept me or the hamsters get it" is blackmail..

[diamondlil]

Just a suggestion (remember I'm NOT a hamster lover). Why not offer them to a local school if they're really friendly? I've only ever met 1 hamster that didn't try to take my finger off, so maybe I'm biased, but really friendly hamsters sound like someone would want them.
You might have more luck with the petshop manager, at my local shop I've traded some of the prettier mice for dry goods through the manager who I've known for years. When I'd spoken to one of the assisstants she was really snotty about it and said there was no way they'd do it.
If you do decide to kill and freeze the hamsters, I have another suggestion. When I buy frozen mice that've been co2'd, they are twisted into shapes that suggest to me that they don't die cleanly. I actually have to relax out their bodies to make them easier for the snakes to deal with after they're defrosted. The mice I kill at home with a swift blow to the back of the head relax out as they die. I live in town now but grew up in the country with family running farms, and was always told the best thing is to raise feed animals well, and give them a quick, clean death.

[Flagg]

It has NOTHING to do with immaturity.
Personally I dont care if you think its cruel or not. I'll smash the little bastards under my foot if I feel like it just to piss you off.
You were saying something about immaturity?

[SkyChimp]

I know what Almase can do with his hamsters. I bet he has some duct tape.

[ssmith_1187]

I thought I needed a cute pet for when she came over.

That was not the sole reason to impress the girl. Impressing had nothing to do with it.

I believe that is what they call a question of semantics.

Regards,
Steve

[Almase]

Yeah uh, Steve, if I wanted to impress her I would of jumped on my horse bareback and ride the bastard standing up. You dont impress somone with a little pile of fur. Do you understand the difference in the little cuteness so she'd think "aww thats cute" not "OH! Im impressed! You have hamsters".

Flagg. That wasnt immature what I said. Thats making a point.

Thats true Diamond. You should raise feed animals well and give them a quick clean death. Its not like I would disect it while its still alive or anything haha.

Tom E. I know exactly who I am. I dont need to reflect on myself, or where im heading. I am exactly who I want to be. People who show me respect, I give them respect. People who I feel are being pricks, I treat them like pricks. People who make smart ass comments like "I understand you're a young guy with some radical ideas trying to find out who he is and hopefully find his place and people that love him" are pricks. "Accept me or the hamsters" is NOT "blackmail". It would be "blackmail" if I said "If you dont accept what I am going to do then I will torture the hamsters" do you see the difference? I came here and asked a simple question and some of you turned it into something totally different. Frankly, what I do with my hamsters is really none of your business. If I want to tie it up by its little feet and hang it from the ceiling there is nothing you can do about it. That is my business. Now I wouldnt do that. But the point is there isnt any point coming in here and telling me what to do, or what I do is wrong because its just a waste of my time to have to write these long letters saying there is nothing you can do about it. Do you see what I am saying? Now can we get off this hamster crap before I DO decide to just smash the crap out of them and end it myself? Thank you. :)

[tyflier]

Almase--

If you ask people for their opinions, you can't really expect everyone to share your's. If you don't care, or don't want to hear, what other people think, than you shouldn' post topics that ask for opinions.

It seems as though some of your posts are blatant attempts to inflame people. Now, I'm not trying to tell you how you should or shouldn't act, but respect is something that is highly regarded around here, even if 2 people don't agree with each other. We try to keep it that way.

Sometimes it best to just let it go, and walk away. Some people are not ever going to agree with how you might choose to do things. So what? Is it really that important? It's just a couple of hamsters. Do whatever you want to do with them, just don't "brag" about to people who don't agree with it...

[Lennycorn]

Almase,
I didn't feel like reading all the pages of this thread but let get back on topic.

Would I feed dwarf hamsters to a my corn snake??? Maybe??? :shrugs:
The size of them would be one issue. But the way I present than to the snake would be the main issue. I did the stun and breaking the neck thing.
but it didn't feel right with it. But that just me, so I switch to f/t mice.

So you sound like a hunting type, regular Joe. Do what you are comfortable with. You received enough oppions on the subject.
Now move on.

[Lennycorn]

tyflier types faster.
But same idea.

[Almase]

Oh no no. I just asked if they could eat them. I just wanted A yes or no. Its just SOME people turned it into something bigger by getting more into. But like I said, I only give respect where respect is deserved and I do not care if other think I deserve it back. But anywho, I tried to end it in my last reply. Yes, I also did say things to inflame people. That is a hobby of mine when people are being stupid.

But to move on. I just caught a little tiny house mouse, its about the size of a quarter. (Its body) but its furry and stuff. Is there any way I could make it healthy if it does have a disease? Seems I remember in frog forums people say to feed mice something that makes them healthy. Do you know?

[666killademon]

I think that isn't cruel at all at least u puttin them to good use cuz ur savin urself money, feeding ur snake, and getting rid of them but i think that nothin is cruel thats just my opinion but as long as u make sure they dont get at ur snake it shold b fine

[666killademon]

I guess some people just aint killers u feel me

[Almase]

Yep. I know. I just gave that mouse I caught to my cat and had a blast watching the cat play with the mouse. Some people are just soft.

[Tula_Montage]

Why is anyone even replying to this thread anymore! Its damn obvious Almase is going to do whatever he wants with those furry wee things no matter what ANYONE says?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/tula-montage/beatdeadhorse5.gif

Almost 100 replies and no productive conclusion... Jeez let the guy have his way. Its people who KEEP responding to these kinds of threads when there is no REAL debate or productive outcome that get me miffed off :shrugs:

I know you all have better things to do.

[Almase]

LOL Thank you Montage. Thats right. No point in telling me what to do. All this was about was asking if snakes would eat them, and I got my answer already. No one has a problem with a snake eating a hamster so why are we still talking about it? haha That was rhetorical. Dont answer.

[Dave123]

Why is anyone even replying to this thread anymore! Its damn obvious Almase is going to do whatever he wants with those furry wee things no matter what ANYONE says?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/tula-montage/beatdeadhorse5.gif

Almost 100 replies and no productive conclusion... Jeez let the guy have his way. Its people who KEEP responding to these kinds of threads when there is no REAL debate or productive outcome that get me miffed off :shrugs:

I know you all have better things to do.

Good Idea. We don't want this to be another example of how things get "out of control" around here. But that might be too late. :shrugs: :rolleyes:

[Almase]

No no. This didnt get out of control. But we cant stop this unless we quit responding.

[tyflier]

You can't really come into a forum and spout off about personal belief systems, politics, and animal curelty opinions and NOT expect people to respond. By providing so many controversial opinions that were completely off-topic from the original post, you opened the entire topic up to speculation and criticism.

There is a reason why most people refrain from posts that contain matters of religous, political, and highly opinionated personal topics...

[starsevol]

Yep. I know. I just gave that mouse I caught to my cat and had a blast watching the cat play with the mouse. Some people are just soft.


This guy calls liberalism a mental disease but gets his rocks off by watching an animal torture another to death. Getting so much joy out of watching the suffering of a lesser creature is cruel, sick and sadistic and such a person REALLY DOES have a mental disease. He and Dahmer have something in common!

This is my last post on this thread.

[Susan]

Good gracious! This thread has more ups and downs than a roller coaster!

Almase - I've been in the South long enough to know exactly where you're coming from and I happen to agree with your thinking on several topics. However, I do highly recommend that you please refrain from using the colorful language. This is a family forum and you WILL get banned if it continues. There are just certain terms that are not accepted here. But things like poop and whatever unique name for certain male secretions you can create (I like "spooge" myself when describing the tell-tale sign of successful cornsnake matings) are perfectly acceptable. There are a few others that will occasionally get by, but they're to be used in a non-hostile nature.

On another topic and it's :-offtopic , have I got a place for you! My hubby is also very into politics and I think you'll really enjoy this forum:
http://groups.google.com/group/political-round-robin
One of hubby's favorite things to do on his political forums is to make any liberal willing to try to debate him go running away in tears and feeling like a total Democratic party symbol.

[sfaoldguy]

haha Carol. They are wider than the mice. But they can sure the heck squeeze themselves through smaller holes than mice! Yeah, they are really friendly. I just dont think I wanna drive to the petshop JUST to get rid of them when I have a snake sitting right behind me. You know?

There ya go bull. Just smack em on a table haha. Maybe you can spin them around in a circle really fast like you do cats then drop it in with snake? lol Does that work? Jk. I'll stun the mouse :flames:
You sure... Get them wet and then compare lol... :crazy02:

[Almase]

Stars, its not cruel at all to give a mouse to a cat, and watch it play with the mouse. Its in the cats nature to fling a mouse around. Bite it, toss it, smack it, pounce on it. Its all in a cats nature. You play with your cat with cat toys right? Its the same thing only im not playing with the cat, im watching it play with food. And its entertaining just the same as a actual toy. Its not sadistic or anything to think its funny that a cat is playing with a toy. You're just a soft person.

lol Susan, that is very fun thing to do. I open myself up to debates on myspace all the time. Sometimes I enjoy going out and finding libs and debunk their "theories" on global warming, abortion, war, religion, sexual liberation, borders. I think those are my main topics. :)...Thanks for the link. I'll check it out but I cannot do political forums because you leave a comment and 10 minutes later there are 30 new pages (Slight exageration). But I just dont have the patience to read pages and pages of new stuff. Besides after you do read the whole thing, the topic you wanted to respond to is old news. I much prefer to just leave a comment and tell people to send me a message on myspace so I dont have to get stuck reading all that garbage.

What do you mean oldguy?

[Ssthisto]

Stars, its not cruel at all to give a mouse to a cat, and watch it play with the mouse. Its in the cats nature to fling a mouse around. Bite it, toss it, smack it, pounce on it. Its all in a cats nature. You play with your cat with cat toys right? Its the same thing only im not playing with the cat, im watching it play with food. And its entertaining just the same as a actual toy. Its not sadistic or anything to think its funny that a cat is playing with a toy. You're just a soft person.

I dunno. I think it IS a bit sadistic to give a cat a LIVE 'toy' deliberately. The mouse is no less alive than the cat, and no less deserving of humane treatment. Yes, I'm soft. I believe that a life is a life is a life - no matter how much you paid for it or what you intend to do with it - and that it deserves as humane a life and death - as free from pain, stress and fear - as you, as a thinking creature capable of making choices for other creatures, can provide it. At least a -dead- bit of feather or fur on the end of a string is not capable of feeling pain, stress or fear.

I don't have one bit of trouble humanely euthanising my feeder mice by CO2, I don't have one bit of trouble feeding those euthanised mice to my snakes (and if my cats would take them, I'd give them mice too) ... but I don't think it's any more right to give a cat a live 'toy' so that they can play with it to death than it is to allow a small child to torture a puppy or kitten to death - accidentally or otherwise - in the name of 'giving it a toy'.

I even take any LIVE prey my cats bring in away from them - once it comes into my house, if it's alive, it belongs to me. If it's too badly injured to rehabilitate, it's euthanised and disposed of - I don't really WANT my cats eating wild birds and rodents, since that's where they wind up getting worms from. If it's able to be rehabilitated or released, then I take it, rehab if needed, and put it far enough from our property that the cat's not likely to pick it up again.

But that's my opinion, based on my feelings about the nature of life and the responsibilities humans have towards life forms who are in their care - however temporarily.

Yes, your snake can eat a pre-killed hamster. He might like the taste, however - and not want something else. I'd also been under the impression that hamsters might be a bit fatty in terms of a permanent diet. I wouldn't feed a live hamster - a stressed one can bite like a bugger and might do permanent damage to your snake.

[Roy Munson]

Sometimes I enjoy going out and finding libs and debunk their "theories" on global warming, abortion, war, religion, sexual liberation, borders. I think those are my main topics. :)...:roflmao: Where did you get your advanced scientific degrees that allow you to "debunk" the climate experts who actually have evidence to support the idea that humans are adversely changing the climate? In the scientific fields pertaining to climate, 99%+ of the researchers are convinced. But I guess while you, daddy, and Uncle Bob were out shootin' coons, you heard enough of their idiotic, Busch-Light-fueled opinions to make you an expert on everything, huh kid? I won't even get into the other theories you "debunk". I'm guessing that my boa has more informed views on these subjects as well. I KNOW he has about as much real-world experience, being only three years younger than you and having lived his whole life in a small, sheltered box. And with his lack of external ear openings, and his bb brain, I'll bet that he's about as open to new information. :grin01:

Any questions I may have asked were rhetorical. I won't be posting in this thread again.

[Nanci]

So I guess I'm a sucker for spending $100 to fix up a box turtle with pneumonia that someone dumped off on me. Or that I've spent hundreds on my free pigeon, including $300 laser surgery to remove a lipoma that would have taken a long time to kill him.

Nanci

[666killademon]

I just have one thing to say how is everybody that killing is cruel or sadistic. The snakes that everybody has here are all killers whether you feed them dead or live prey plain and simple so if you have a problem with death you shouldn't have got a snake. I mean come on, out here in chicago people die on the street every week whether it be gang related or just plain murder and you all are talkin bout animals killing each other like it isn't in their nature. Death is a part of life, deal with it and im out.

[Flagg]

Is Crown Point a new neighborhood of Chicago? I thought it was in Indiana.

[carol]

I'm curious if you will also enjoy watching your snake regurge after having a meal that is too large. :shrugs:

[tricksterpup]

I just have one thing to say how is everybody that killing is cruel or sadistic. The snakes that everybody has here are all killers whether you feed them dead or live prey plain and simple so if you have a problem with death you shouldn't have got a snake. I mean come on, out here in chicago people die on the street every week whether it be gang related or just plain murder and you all are talkin bout animals killing each other like it isn't in their nature. Death is a part of life, deal with it and im out.
Dude, You live in Crown Point Indiana which is a far cry from the streets of Chicago or even downtown Gary. Please do not tell us its any different. Your school system and area isn't as urban as you think it is.
As for the issue of death of humans, yes its a shame and I am sadden by seeing kids killing kids and I am against it as well. I just do not enjoy seeing someone getting off killing animals in any way. This shows me that this person has maturity and actual mental issues.
And as for Death is a part of life, oh trust me, I understand death more than do right now in your life. I have put down animals and pets due to illness and other reasons. It pains me to do this but sit back and figure if I am gonna kill something for pleasure or boredom. Well I would be forced to seek professional help for my mental state.

[Susan]

Almase and 666killademon - You both have pulled the wings off flies, haven't you!

[Ssthisto]

I just have one thing to say how is everybody that killing is cruel or sadistic. The snakes that everybody has here are all killers whether you feed them dead or live prey plain and simple so if you have a problem with death you shouldn't have got a snake. I mean come on, out here in chicago people die on the street every week whether it be gang related or just plain murder and you all are talkin bout animals killing each other like it isn't in their nature. Death is a part of life, deal with it and im out.

It is not killing or death that is inherently cruel or sadistic. Death IS natural.

It is the way that a thinking being like a human chooses to end the life of another creature that can become cruel or sadistic.

A gator or lizard who catches a rodent and flings it about until it dies is not necessarily being consciously cruel. It's behaving in an instinctive manner, killing the rodent while trying to minimise the chance the rodent has to do damage to it. It does not have alternative methods available to it which are more humane than what it employs - and if it did, there is no guarantee there is enough going on in a gator's head to tell it that "you know, there's a better way to do this that won't get me bitten because this rodent will die faster."

A human who catches a rodent and flings it around until it dies (without deliberately trying for a 'whack' to kill - which is still inhumane) IS being consciously cruel - they've chosen to do something that causes pain, stress and fear to another living thing, and there is no reason why a thinking human being cannot choose to kill the animal in a more humane fashion that will cause less pain, stress or fear.

And a human who catches a rodent and gives it to another animal which is capable of killing the rodent quickly with a bite but USUALLY chooses to play with it until it dies is ALSO behaving cruelly - because the human had the choice to offer the rodent as a DEAD toy instead of as a live one.

[tyflier]

Almase--

There is a HUGE difference between "debunking a theory" and being so maddeningly obtuse, close-minded and stubborn that people simply give up on you. I don't care how well-rounded you THINK you are, or how smart you THINK your theories are, or how much you think the rest of the world is full of it, and YOU have all the answers...you're still wrong. Just because people stop argunig with you doesn't mean you were right.

I don't see how you could possibly intelligently debate someone when you resort to childish name-calling over a hamster. What happens when someone mentions an important topic you disagree with? Do you break out the rifles?

Backwoods, beer can politics won't ever solve the world's problems. And people that propogate ignorance and obtuse thinking aren't helping from either end of the spectrum. So if you want to debate about political topics or matters of personal religous beliefs or personal decisions, find a forum that is MEANT for that sort of thing.

THIS place is meant for free exchange of ideas between respectful adults regarding topics concerning cornsnakes and generally herpetocultural practices. This is NOT a place for you spout of at the mouth about your political beliefs in the hope that someone will argue with you, so that you can "debunnk their theories" by calling them names and saying "you're wrong" without evidence.

Susan provided you a link that will give you every opportunity to talk politics with willing participants. As for THIS forum...it is about cornsnakes.

And with that, I, too, a0m done with this topic. But don't get it twisted Almase...you haven't "won" any debate. I just refuse to have a battle of the wits with an unarmed person.

[hell awaits]

I just have one thing to say how is everybody that killing is cruel or sadistic. The snakes that everybody has here are all killers whether you feed them dead or live prey plain and simple so if you have a problem with death you shouldn't have got a snake. I mean come on, out here in chicago people die on the street every week whether it be gang related or just plain murder and you all are talkin bout animals killing each other like it isn't in their nature. Death is a part of life, deal with it and im out.

i don't think anybody said that killing was cruel or sadistic....but i would have to agree with them that...bringing a live mouse to a cat and watch the cat torture the mouse until the mouse dies slowly and painfully...and most of the people on here feed their snakes pre-killed food for safety of their snake..and which most of the rodents are gassed and are then freezed...which is the most humane way of doing it...yes death is a huge part of life..understanding death isn't exactly the same as watching a cat torture a mouse because it's a "toy"...your statement was ignorant and i'd pick up some books...

[kev1144]

I see this happen everyday...



It starts off by someone asking if snakes can eat dwarf hampsters and ends with people people talking about people dying in drug related violence on the streets...




The 2 are so similar, how could people not see that coming????

[Dave123]

Okay you guys please stop replying. As already stated he is going to do whatever he wants and we have already told him what is good and bad to do. Let's just hope he thinks of his snake (and hampsters) before doing something for fun.

[Almase]

First off, its not sadistic. I live on a stable. You dont want certain animals on stables, mice, rats, oppossums for example. They pass diseases to the horses and horses are a few thousand dolloar animals. So what do I do with a mouse? Stomp on it? Well if I do that its dying. Let it go in the woods so it can come back? No, thats stupid. You give it to your cat. It helps teach cats to hunt, it brings out the predator in them. Just like when you train coondogs you might release a coon for it to chase after. Or you get coon skin and play tug a war with it. You help bring out their natural animal instinct. There is nothing sadistic about giving a live mouse to a cat. YOu can give a live mouse to a snake and watch it latch on and choke it to death. You're an idiot, all of you who think what I do with mice are. You do not understand how dangerous those animals can be to horses. Even humans.

son, you wont be posting in this thread again because you are a coward. You know there is no such thing as global warming. First it was global cooling with you moronic leftists, now its global warming make up your mind. If the planet is getting hotter then why did we just have the coldest wint in my state? Why were the farmers in California afraid that their fruits would freeze? You my friend are a coward. If you're man enough why dont you send me a message on myspace and we'll discuss this. If not then dont bother wasting my time with your "kid" crap. Did everyone in Connecticut drink the punch, or are you the only idiot who did?

Nanci, its like I said. If you want to spend money on something like that, thats your deal. I dont care. It has nothing to do with me. Im just saying that I would not.

Carol, if you are talking to me then I have to tell you my snake can swallow it. Have any of you morons bothered to ask how big the hamsters were? I mean by name they are DWARF hamsters. Maybe they are still young one. You all jump to conclusions like its a dang guinea pig or something. And yes Carol, I would enjoy watching that.

Susan, no I didnt pull wings off flys. I put them in the freezer then glued them to little match stick airplanes and then blew on them to unfreeze them and watched them fly around like little engines on my plane.

Tthisto, the cat was flinging the mouse around. The cat pounced on it, let it run then jumped it again. Picked it up and brought it into the open. Smacked it. Let it run away then grabbed it again. The cat even started rolling over on it on purpose. Are you saying that the cat is cruel?

Tyflier, im sure you can find the begining of this whole thing and see that it wasnt me who started all of this. I just responded back. I dont do backwoods politics. Try again. Besides, arent you doing the same thing you say I am doing? Only you're not calling me names right out, you are doing a typical cowardly attack on my by disguising your insults as stereo types. "Backwoods". Why dont you reread what your wrote. What I wrote back to that person was to her. Not you. Good, then shut it. I tried changing subject several times but new people come in and start it up again. Why dont you look back and you will see that.

[Lennycorn]

It's time to move on.

[Almase]

Yes LennyCorn it is. If any of you wanna talk about me being "Cruel" or my "politics" then PLEASE PLEASE just send it to my myspace account www.myspace.com/almaseamir Because I really dont like having to come here and read the pages of everyone putting in their two sense. Just copy what I wrote you have a problem with and then send it along with your reply to my myspace. Im deleting this thread from my thingy where these things are saved to. So again. If you have something to say to me, then say it through myspace. THANK YOU.

[Susan]

Almase - I want to thank you for trying to take the debate elsewhere as it really doesn't belong here. I must agree with you on some points , such as global cooling/warming/just the natural cycle the Earth has been going through for centuries and nobody has taken the trouble to document it before. I also forgot that you have horses and barns with barn cats. Helping teach a cat to do its job in your instance is exactly that...training. I apologize for my fly statement...to you anyway. And since you will not be viewing this thread again, I will PM this post to you. I just wanted others to see this as well in hopes that they will now drop this thread as I will now be.

[Roy Munson]

son, you wont be posting in this thread again because you are a coward. You know there is no such thing as global warming. First it was global cooling with you moronic leftists, now its global warming make up your mind. If the planet is getting hotter then why did we just have the coldest wint in my state? Why were the farmers in California afraid that their fruits would freeze? You my friend are a coward. If you're man enough why dont you send me a message on myspace and we'll discuss this. If not then dont bother wasting my time with your "kid" crap. Did everyone in Connecticut drink the punch, or are you the only idiot who did?:roflmao: Ok, I lied. I'll make one more post. The cleverness of your profane alteration of my username dragged me back. I'm humbled by your genius. :grin01:

Yeah, you're right-- I'm too much of a coward to debate your towering intellect. I've been debating successfully since before you put your first firecracker up a frog's anus, and before you performed your first backwoods vivisection, but you're the best I've ever seen. You're such a brave man that you choose a mousie sub-forum on a snake site to incite others with your b.s.. Your stupid points about climate change have been spouted by ignorant children for years, and refuted for just as long. Go do some research, and I don't mean searching for "o'reilly + warming" on youtube.

I love you internet heroes, you "hard men" flinging phrases like "coward" and "man enough" around. It's especially amusing in a mousie forum!

Go start an ignorant thread about your views in the 'general chit-chat' forum, and maybe I'll waste some time replying. I'm certainly not going to chase you around myspace so I can read any more of your PRATT (points refuted a thousand times) or your Limbaugh regurgitations. Maybe try thinking for yourself for a minute or two before composing your opening post. I know it'll be tough, but give it a shot.

And yes, I drank the punch, kid. It was spiked and everything. Maybe when you're old enough to buy alcohol, you can give it a try. It might be just the thing you need to right that imbalance.

Now run along and kill a hamster or something... :wavey:

[Ssthisto]

Tthisto, the cat was flinging the mouse around. The cat pounced on it, let it run then jumped it again. Picked it up and brought it into the open. Smacked it. Let it run away then grabbed it again. The cat even started rolling over on it on purpose. Are you saying that the cat is cruel?

Yes, and no.

Yes, the cat is causing pain, stress and fear to an animal for a prolonged period of time, and this pain, stress and fear is avoidable, so in that respect the mouse is experiencing inhumane treatment.

No... because the cat, regardless of how smart cats may be, does not have enough brains to KNOW that it is causing the mouse pain, stress and fear - nor should one expect a cat to have brains enough to care, because they are not sapient human beings.

I do however expect a human to have brains enough to care - and to avoid causing pain, stress and fear whenever possible.

In my experience, encouraging your cat to play with live mice does not teach it to hunt them any more efficiently - it just teaches them to play with their food.

My cats are VERY efficient at catching and IMMEDIATELY killing mice... because they know that a live mouse inside the house is going to be taken away. A dead mouse, they get to keep if they want to eat it - I don't catch the cat and take it off them without offering a 'bribe'.

And we had a wonderful practical demonstration of this when one of my young breeder mice escaped. She leaped off my hand and darted out into the hall - and before she'd gotten more than two steps down the stairs the cat had the mouse and the mouse was dead. Immediate kill, minimum of pain, stress and fear. Cat let me have the mouse back, too - and she got an immediate food reward for doing so.

By all means, do what you like with the mice and the hamsters and the snakes for that matter... but don't expect everyone to go "yeah, you're right after all. We should all do whatever we please to other living things because we CAN."

[Dave123]

You must spread some reputation before giving it to Roy Munson again.

[starsevol]

:roflmao: Ok, I lied. I'll make one more post. The cleverness of your profane alteration of my username dragged me back. I'm humbled by your genius. :grin01:

Yeah, you're right-- I'm too much of a coward to debate your towering intellect. I've been debating successfully since before you put your first firecracker up a frog's anus, and before you performed your first backwoods vivisection, but you're the best I've ever seen. You're such a brave man that you choose a mousie sub-forum on a snake site to incite others with your b.s.. Your stupid points about climate change have been spouted by ignorant children for years, and refuted for just as long. Go do some research, and I don't mean searching for "o'reilly + warming" on youtube.

I love you internet heroes, you "hard men" flinging phrases like "coward" and "man enough" around. It's especially amusing in a mousie forum!

Go start an ignorant thread about your views in the 'general chit-chat' forum, and maybe I'll waste some time replying. I'm certainly not going to chase you around myspace so I can read any more of your PRATT (points refuted a thousand times) or your Limbaugh regurgitations. Maybe try thinking for yourself for a minute or two before composing your opening post. I know it'll be tough, but give it a shot.

And yes, I drank the punch, kid. It was spiked and everything. Maybe when you're old enough to buy alcohol, you can give it a try. It might be just the thing you need to right that imbalance.

Now run along and kill a hamster or something... :wavey:


You know, I said I wouldn't post again in here but I just couldn't let this go by......
Almase refers to a well respected contributing member of this forum (Dean)as "son" and that slides by? It's parents did this child a huge disservice. Not only did they spawn a sadistic and cruel specimen, they should have slapped its nasty mouth and taught it some respect.

[tricksterpup]

You know, I said I wouldn't post again in here but I just couldn't let this go by......
Almase refers to a well respected contributing member of this forum (Dean)as "son" and that slides by? It's parents did this child a huge disservice. Not only did they spawn a sadistic and cruel specimen, they should have slapped its nasty mouth and taught it some respect.
Well I agree with you on that Dean is a naughty Man and should be punished, Often.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/tricksterpup/pom5.jpg

[starsevol]

Ebil ebil thoughts :grin01:

[jazzgeek]

Dean -

From your keyboard, that was a thing of beauty.

Had it come from mine, it'd be reason for me to not be a mod. ;)

Go figure.

regards,
jazz

[Roy Munson]

Dean -

From your keyboard, that was a thing of beauty.

Had it come from mine, it'd be reason for me to not be a mod. ;)

Go figure.

regards,
jazz

Thanks Dale, but I really don't feel that great about it. It's like giving the boot to the runty, funny-headed puppy that walks into walls and just peed on your shoe-- not something to really be proud of. (Don't worry, I haven't done this to my own runty, funny-headed puppy that just walked into the wall after peeing on my shoe. Bad Vader!)

I really tried to be good, and not reply to this kind of crap; I only lasted about 40 hours. But I won't withdraw my name from the mod nominee list. I've been in management before, and I was very successful, so I'm quite capable of turning "it" off for duty's sake (and I think you know what I mean by "it"). But as you might have guessed by the posts I've made since the announcement, winning the "election" isn't of paramount concern to me. And after all, winning the post and holding on to it are two very different things. ;)

[kev1144]

I wanted to say that reputation thing but someone beat me to it, my day will come, but for now I'll just run around yelling oh snap while Roy is standing with arms folded

[jazzgeek]

Thanks Dale, but I really don't feel that great about it. It's like giving the boot to the runty, funny-headed puppy that walks into walls and just peed on your shoe-- not something to really be proud of. (Don't worry, I haven't done this to my own runty, funny-headed puppy that just walked into the wall after peeing on my shoe. Bad Vader!) You don't have to "feel" anything about it.

As I've said many a time, I'm all for civility, but if it escalates, "I'll punch you in the soul". Your response was, imho, a measured rejoinder to the idiotic trolling that has sadly become commonplace here, and a well-turned rejoinder at that. You weren't responding to (again, imho) a runty, funny-headed puppy. The troll was quite capable of forming complete sentences, just not too well versed at defending a position. And of course, he was the one to pull the "Kool-Aid drinker" reference outta his keester.

Did I mention that I'm a big fan of irony? ;)

I really tried to be good, and not reply to this kind of crap; I only lasted about 40 hours. But I won't withdraw my name from the mod nominee list. I've been in management before, and I was very successful, so I'm quite capable of turning "it" off for duty's sake (and I think you know what I mean by "it"). But as you might have guessed by the posts I've made since the announcement, winning the "election" isn't of paramount concern to me. And after all, winning the post and holding on to it are two very different things. ;)Nobody is asking for your name to be withdrawn.

Matter of fact, if anything, it was a ringing endorsement from me.

Which - of course - is your death knell. :grin01:

regards,
jazz

[Roy Munson]

Nobody is asking for your name to be withdrawn.

I got you! I didn't take it that way. Bad transition/segue, that's all. :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
One more point I'd like to make: you know you're not a kid anymore when you embrace and appreciate being called one. ;) Poll THAT!

[Vinman]

back on topic, I have fed all sizes of dwarfs and small to med. normal hamsters to colubrids . I had no problem but hamsters was not used as a staple. Mice, rats and gerbils were also in their diet. I dont think hamsters as a staple is healthy diet, too much fat contant in a hamster

[Hebi]

I wouldn't give a snake a live hamster.

hamsters are mean, they won't hesitate to scratch and bite.

Also, I'd think hamsters are more expensive and troublesome than and other kind of feeder.

[JollieMollie]

OKay folks, excuse me for poking in here, but I couldn't help but wonder as I read the thread. Does this forum have moderaters? Silly question, I know, but suddenly I find myself wondering. If there are mods, what do they do? If 14 pages of flames, name calling, off topic discussion, disrespectful posts (from multiple persons), and such aren't enough to warrant a locked thread, warning from the mods, a split thread, or editing of posts, what exactly is too much? Maybe this forum just doesn't have those kind of standards, I don't know. Just seems to me this sort of thing is extremely unhealthy for the forum as well as for individuals and not something I would allow to prosper if I had a say in it.


:shrug: Just wondering.

[Flagg]

No, no moderators yet, apparently they haven't been required before recently.

From what I gather, as mentioned in this very thread, the campaign process has just started so it may be a while yet.

[DogStar5988]

I have to admit that I am one of those people that spends money to take a $5 animal to the vet. I got a rat my freshman year of college and then spent $150 to get rid of its mites, and then $30 to get it euthinised after 3 years and a large tumur formed.
As I living thinking being I can only judge other living things based on how, if in thier position, I would want to be treated. Sure there are things that I hate: spiders, ticks, hornets, etc. But if I have a choice I don't kill them, don't get me wrong if I wake up with a spider on my face its gonna die, but if I just see a spider I let it go because I repect it as another living thing and an efficiet preditor. Point being, (IMO)there is nothing wrong with death, just with unessesary death. (again no spellcheck)


---Kenny

[Vinman]

I wouldn't give a snake a live hamster.

hamsters are mean, they won't hesitate to scratch and bite.

Also, I'd think hamsters are more expensive and troublesome than and other kind of feeder.

I sell fish and reptiles to pet stores and wholesalers. Depending who it was, they would either give me rodents for free or I would pay between 25 to 50 cents ea. They would be the old breeders, injured or if they had to much overstock. Sometimes when I was at the pet store someone would come in the store with a whole litter of young hamesters , gerbils or mice. They would store would ask if the store wanted them. The store would ask me if I could use them , of corse I would say yes. When I got home I would either snap their necks and feed dead or I would use tongs and dangle the rodent by its tail to make sure the snakes strike was a head shot. Now I still get these every now and then not like before. I never feed these to my main collection. Just incase of any pathagins or parasites. Insted I would feed these rodents to my living room collection. These are wild caughts and snakes that I get from herp shows, old pets no longer wanted, or buying out someones snake collection for resale. Only the babies of these snakes would be put in my main collection in the snake room.

[gwb8568]

Does this forum have moderaters?
not yet.........it has been a "freedom of speech" board with the hopes that members can police themselves and act as adults.
If 14 pages of flames, name calling, off topic discussion, disrespectful posts (from multiple persons), and such aren't enough to warrant a locked thread, warning from the mods, a split thread, or editing of posts, what exactly is too much?
obviously the privilege has been taken to extreme and now allot of people are going to suffer for it. believe me, if you don't like threads going off-topic then this forum might not work for you. mosts threads here do end up that way but almost always come back to reality and slowly fade away. the other aspect of it though is that it is usually brought on by immature individuals with nothing else to do but try and get under peoples skin on purpose. that in turn escalates into decent people trying to "rid-the-demon" in any and every way possible. it's a normal part of life, whether you are on the streets with other people you respect, or on the forum. you will stand-by and stick-up for your com padres while taking the opposer down.
Maybe this forum just doesn't have those kind of standards, I don't know. Just seems to me this sort of thing is extremely unhealthy for the forum as well as for individuals and not something I would allow to prosper if I had a say in it.
you do have a say in it......first, read THIS (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46566&highlight=moderators) and THAT (http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46763&highlight=moderators) to further inform you of what is about to take place. but remember what it was like (right now) when you were able to type/feel/say/do whatever you wanted while still using a controlled manner and also getting a valid point across.......it's possible that you might not have that choice in the future to "speak your mind" as you see fit. i hope this helps you, even though it's just my $.03

galen

[Vinman]

to all of you who have a problem with the fighting there is a tab that you can click on to report any bad posts or threads it is right next to the tab that you give people good points to. It is a white triangle with a red out line. Now can we get back on topic and stop all this crap about fighting you dont like what you read then report it

BACK TO THE ORGINAL TOPIC PLEASE!!!!!!

[Plissken]

I have to admit that I am one of those people that spends money to take a $5 animal to the vet. I got a rat my freshman year of college and then spent $150 to get rid of its mites, and then $30 to get it euthinised after 3 years and a large tumur formed.
As I living thinking being I can only judge other living things based on how, if in thier position, I would want to be treated. Sure there are things that I hate: spiders, ticks, hornets, etc. But if I have a choice I don't kill them, don't get me wrong if I wake up with a spider on my face its gonna die, but if I just see a spider I let it go because I repect it as another living thing and an efficiet preditor. Point being, (IMO)there is nothing wrong with death, just with unessesary death. (again no spellcheck)


---Kenny

As am I. I don't understand the OP's view that if it didn't cost him much, it isn't worthy of any veterinary treatment, or even a short drive to the pet shop. :shrugs: To me the animal always comes before the money. If you aren't prepared to deal responsibly with any future costs you may incur,
why take the animal on in the first place?

In regards to the original question, this question has nothing to do with the snake - as others have pointed out it could even be detrimental to the reptile. This is just to do with "getting rid" of the hamsters. In a short drive to the shop the hamsters get to live AND the snake is not attacked by a terrified rodent. :shrugs: