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$10 Burms- get yours cheap!

Hypancistrus

Hypancistrus

New member
Went to the All MD Reptile Show @ Havre de Grace today. There were a friggin TON of burms there... albinos were going for $100 newly hatched. Normals were running around $50. But one vendor had a "skinny special" on normal burms that were thin-- I would guess they were not good feeders. They were selling them for $10 a piece.

So for half a $20 bill, a teenager can walk into that show and buy an animal that, if it survives, can reach 15' and weigh more than said teenager. It could reach 10', a dangerous length, in one years time.

Is this really the way we want to treat our hobby? Should we, in this political climate, be offering dangerous animals for sale to the public, at random, in so cavalier a fashion?
 
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In my opinion...

that is part of the reason for our "big snake ban" problems here in Florida. For many years, I saw kids and obvious newbies at shows walking around with tubs containing a baby Burm,, retic, or worse, African rock. They were sometimes marked as low as $20 - $25. I never saw ANY vendor with any kind of warning sign about their eventual size and caging needs (there might have been some giving that advice, but I never saw it). I even discussed it with a couple show promoters. They said that there was nothing they could do as long as it was legal. Problem solved - now it is NOT legal. But that is exactly the kind of solution I HATE.

If the show promoter can be convinced to require certain species (mostly the biggest pythons and anacondas) to be sold only to adults, and to require some sort of large sign (or maybe even sign a waiver about understanding the requirements), it would go a long way towards showing that we are at least TRYING to self regulate. It won't stop the humaniacs from trying to kill or hobby with more legislation, of course. But when they do push their agenda, at least we would have SOMETHING to show that we are attempting to do something about it. Or the sellers can take the short sighted approach like they did in Florida and probably achieve the same results. All of the big snakes are now banned as pets in Florida (although they can still be commercially bred here for sale outside of the state).
 
Wow. That's just...wow. At the Portland show today I was thrilled to hear a breeder talking someone OUT of buying one of his lovely retics and pointing them toward his Hogg Island boas instead. A much better choice for the average keeper.
 
At the recent Repticon in Baton Rouge I actualy heard a breeder tell someone he refused to sell them a snake because apparently this women buys animals as babies when they are "cute" then gets rid of them. Its nice to know there are some decent breeders out there and once army_greywolf and I get into breeding if we ever do a show I will refuse to sell to children unless their parents are there with them right at the table. I have heard to many horror stories from a vet tech friend of mine.
 
The problem is, even if the parents are there, uneducated idiots tend to think they can just "give it to a zoo," and they surely have no concept of just how big and dangerous 15' is. Even 10' is beyond their comprehension. Couple that with the "cage size" myth... very dangerous.

My other dislike is people who bring their pets to reptile shows and walk around with them. Why? No one who matters cares that your beardie is really big and tame and rides your shoulder. The people oohing and aahing are the people who don't have any clue the danger your healthy animal can be in at a herp show. Do you really need to impress those people??
 
Hypancistrus said:
The problem is, even if the parents are there, uneducated idiots tend to think they can just "give it to a zoo," and they surely have no concept of just how big and dangerous 15' is. Even 10' is beyond their comprehension. Couple that with the "cage size" myth... very dangerous.
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I agree here but at some point you need to realize as a seller you can only do so much to make sure the animal is cared for after it leaves your possession. A pet store I frequented when I lived in Buffalo, NY actually did this. They wouldnt sell to just anyone and they required proof of your set up for anything from fish to ferrets to pet rats and reptiles.
 
Really? I think that it doesn't even have to be a teenager that buys the snake. An adult could get it and have the same issue. I think vendors need to be alot more attentive to who they sell snakes too. Be it a teenage or an adult. Because the issue isn't age, its experience. I keep some odd ball snakes all of which I do great with. But I know people who can't keep a cornsnake alive that are twice my age! So it all has to do with each individual and their ability to care for the animal. And as much as teenagers get attack for bad husbandry and being immature with animals. I personally think that some teenagers are great keepers and some adults don't know what the hell they are doing! And vice versa. So as much as it is the kids fault for saying "Hey! There's a cheap snake!". It is as much the adults fault for selling a snake at that price to a minor.
 
I think it is definitely the sellers responsibility to warn people about animals with difficult care requirements, animals that need very specialized care, or animals that can very easily injure or kill you. Any seller. From pet stores to private breeders. And I think they also have the responsibility to refuse people animals if they feel that the buyer won't be able to, or refuses to properly care for them. Hearing about things like this just really upsets me.
 
True some adults would or could do worse with a pet than a teenager or child but think of this. Kid comes in and buys a snake, takes it home, hides it from the parents and the snake is perfectly healthy. Two months go by and suddenly the parent finds the snake and makes the kid bring it back to the store for a refund, which a lot of places wont do after a month or so. Or worse yet the parents "take over' the snakes care, which they know nothing about. Or even worse, the kid gets bit. Imagine how the parents feel then.
So really making sure a parent is present is more of a CYA than anything.
 
True, but what kind of half decent adult sells a kid a burmese python! Or even a larger sp of boa constrictor, like an Argentine boa.
 
It is a problem with both the adults and the teens. I think certain species should have clear warnings listed at the tables. IE: Burms: can grow to 20' and be very aggressive. King rats: Can be very aggressive and require large amounts of space.

I also think that vendors should require ID when selling large snakes. Even species like boas should have a clear warning. Boas, even though never indicated in a human death can inflict a nasty bite and are strong snakes. I will admit even some colubrids should come with a clear warning. King rats, Beauty snakes, Radiated rats, Green tailed racers, and others all can be big and aggressive.
 
I honestly think the reason people are pricing their burms and other overly large snakes so cheap is because of the recent laws put into effect. They want to sell them off before it becomes completely illegal to sell them. Is it right? No. But any hobby is going to have this, I mean look at the puppy breeders. There are legitimate ones then there are the ones you see on the news.
 
Hypancistrus said:
Is this really the way we want to treat our hobby? Should we, in this political climate, be offering dangerous animals for sale to the public, at random, in so cavalier a fashion?
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Well no but where will the law stop??

Most people think corns are dangerous.

So again where???

Who will draw that line... that thick gray line?
 
Hypancistrus said:
My other dislike is people who bring their pets to reptile shows and walk around with them. Why? No one who matters cares that your beardie is really big and tame and rides your shoulder. The people oohing and aahing are the people who don't have any clue the danger your healthy animal can be in at a herp show. Do you really need to impress those people??
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Our local show in October does not allow animals other than those for sale. There is also plenty of hand sanitizer everywhere.
 
If political leaders are going to start making these laws they should take into account what these people will be doing with the animals and adress it.
 
Lennycorn said:
Well no but where will the law stop??

Most people think corns are dangerous.

So again where???

Who will draw that line... that thick gray line?
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Scientists and people who know what they are talking about. Reptile owners like you and I also need to take a stand.
 
snakemaster24 said:
Really? I think that it doesn't even have to be a teenager that buys the snake. An adult could get it and have the same issue. I think vendors need to be alot more attentive to who they sell snakes too. Be it a teenage or an adult. Because the issue isn't age, its experience. I keep some odd ball snakes all of which I do great with. But I know people who can't keep a cornsnake alive that are twice my age! So it all has to do with each individual and their ability to care for the animal. And as much as teenagers get attack for bad husbandry and being immature with animals. I personally think that some teenagers are great keepers and some adults don't know what the hell they are doing! And vice versa. So as much as it is the kids fault for saying "Hey! There's a cheap snake!". It is as much the adults fault for selling a snake at that price to a minor.
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Agreed! And slightly off topic, but I almost had to do a double take. You've been very well written lately. Definitely showing a lot of thought in your posts, and a lot of effort in taking the time to deliver it.
 
Scientists and people who know what they are talking about...

I WISH! Unfortunately, at worst, it is politicians bought with money from animal rights activists, or at best, politicians who do whatever will get the most votes from the most people. And the scientists who ARE involved often have never actually kept live herps, although they may be great taxonomists or field workers. And their main concern is often how they will get grant money, and who will fund their next research project. So don't be TOO hopeful that people who know what they're doing will be making the laws.

But there is no point in making their "ban the nasty snake" job any easier than it already is by breeders and dealers doing things that make great, sensationalistic headlines.

The whole thing about selling to kids is more of a legal issue. There are plenty of uneducated adults out there. But once they are 18, they have responsibilities to fend for themselves that minors do not. So it is much more important to protect kids from their own stupidity (or lack of knowledge) than it is for adults. I have no doubt that there are many kids who are more mature than many adults. But they are still minors, and need more protection under the law.

Nice to see you back, David!
 
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