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religion and hybrids

Kokopelli said:
I am failing to understand the point of the debate.

According to the written word, and the older approach- religion shuns hybrids. My point is that you have to understand what is meant by the term hybrid by that religion to know what it is shunning.

The various alterations and mutations that some of the different religious translations took do not adhere to the written word anyway... so what's the point you're trying to make here? Agreed, there are many authors of the bible and many translations, different bibles versions, different sects, denominations, etc. There is much disagreement otherwise we would have just one bible and one christian religion with zero different denominations.

So according to one such approach, one -could- make the statements you made- all of which are untested, unproven, and are far, FAR from having a decent scientific basis. Again, agreed. My point here is to show that religious viewpoints are not based on science, but do indeed reflect in how we behave or treat subjects such as hybrids.

So... I think that it's like trying to eat the cake and keep it whole... shaping the meaning of the text to fit one own's views... to the point which it pretty much counters the original verse.
Your missing the point, the point is to show how it is all subjective. Religions differ, opinions differ, etc. But, we do often times make decisions based on how we interpret our personal religious books, secular teachings, etc.

Just say you disagree with the concept and be done with it... your argument is opinion-based and cannot possibly resolve this discussion.
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That would indeed be easy to say I disagree or agree.... but I am agreeing here that religion can indeed influence whether we perceive hybrids as being good, bad, or neutral. I am also attempting to see deeper into how I personally rationalize these matters as well as to see how others rationalize these matters. If one does not want to engage in such, easy enough. Leave the topic alone. If however one does wish to engage.... fire away. I would however like it if personal attacks, demeaning remarks, or.... attention deficit style condescending remarks about length of reply be left out of it. Simply put, respond with something to think about or that counters the argument, agree, disagree... i.e. add something of merit to the thread.
 
"My point is that you have to understand what is meant by the term hybrid by that religion to know what it is shunning."

You can't answer that though. Your guess is as good as any.

You are pro-hybrids, which is why you find ways to rationalize your choice even though you believe in a religion that shuns the concept.
The fact that your personal interpretation was altered in order to accommodate your preferences doesn't mean that this is how the concept hybrid is -really- perceived by organized religion or by the creator of said verse.

In short, the different religious groups can turn the bible to just about anything they want... cause if you can turn a verse such as this, which clearly states "Hybrids are an abomination" into "Hybrids are closer to the original kind", I guess you can pretty much do anything.
 
Carpe Serpentis said:
That would indeed be easy to say I disagree or agree.... but I am agreeing here that religion can indeed influence whether we perceive hybrids as being good, bad, or neutral. I am also attempting to see deeper into how I personally rationalize these matters as well as to see how others rationalize these matters. If one does not want to engage in such, easy enough. Leave the topic alone. If however one does wish to engage.... fire away. I would however like it if personal attacks, demeaning remarks, or.... attention deficit style condescending remarks about length of reply be left out of it. Simply put, respond with something to think about or that counters the argument, agree, disagree... i.e. add something of merit to the thread.
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Personal attacks or flaming are not allowed on this site and the moderators will take a dim view of any that occurs. But as for laying down any laws about any thread staying on topic, that's a non-starter.
People can contribute as much or as little as they feel fit. They can give opinions, they can make jokes, they can go off on tangents.
Maybe you would find more of the debates you apparently find so interesting on another forum? Perhaps a hybrid snake forum would be more satisfying to you?
 
Kokopelli said:
"My point is that you have to understand what is meant by the term hybrid by that religion to know what it is shunning."

You can't answer that though. Your guess is as good as any.
Actually, I did answer what a kind is and I also offered up a biblical quote that defined what is not allowed as far as hybrids. Leviticus 19:19 so there was no guesswork if one simply used the definitions as they were supplied by baraminology and the bible. So, much better than guesswork. Definitions were supplied. I was going by the baraminology argument as well as the bible verse already supplied.

You are pro-hybrids, which is why you find ways to rationalize your choice even though you believe in a religion that shuns the concept.
The fact that your personal interpretation was altered in order to accommodate your preferences doesn't mean that this is how the concept hybrid is -really- perceived by organized religion or by the creator of said verse.

The religion I chose the bible verse I chose.... all prohibit hybrids. But again, I used those versus and their own science to show clearly that a milk x corn were not hybrids in that context. This is not my personal opinion, but rather using the words from Leviticus 19:19 and baraminology (creationist science) to confirm. Absolutely not my personal interpretation.

In short, the different religious groups can turn the bible to just about anything they want... cause if you can turn a verse such as this, which clearly states "Hybrids are an abomination" into "Hybrids are closer to the original kind", I guess you can pretty much do anything.
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Now, I will agree with you in the spirit of this last post. When someone or a group of someone's does not agree with a portion of a religious text they often do pick and choose, how to interpret said text, rewrite said text, get new light, etc. or even develop new religions altogether.
 
diamondlil said:
Personal attacks or flaming are not allowed on this site and the moderators will take a dim view of any that occurs. But as for laying down any laws about any thread staying on topic, that's a non-starter.
People can contribute as much or as little as they feel fit. They can give opinions, they can make jokes, they can go off on tangents.
Maybe you would find more of the debates you apparently find so interesting on another forum? Perhaps a hybrid snake forum would be more satisfying to you?
Click to expand...

Here's two http://www.hybridherps.com http://www.hybridhaven.net

And yes, here threads are like hybrids. They don't always stay pure to their natural.
 
Lennycorn said:
Here's two http://www.hybridherps.com http://www.hybridhaven.net

And yes, here threads are like hybrids. They don't always stay pure to their natural.
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Ahh, well if here threads are more like hybrids, perhaps I have much to gain from this place. I must confess, I do like an opinion that does not always agree with my own. Thank you for the links however. I simply like it when that opinion voices something other than... too long to read. Beyond my level of comprehension.... etc. I mean, for me, I find I would personally find it more stimulating if the person stated that this concept or this sentence... was beyond my comprehension. Did you mean this? Or did you mean this? Or, I disagree.... because of this. But, I do also realize not everyone is capable or desirous of such introspection and reflection. This is a large group and it takes all kinds of diversity. This group is very much like a hybrid group with varying opinions and yes... even threads that are like hybrids themselves so I guess that appeals to me in some way even when it is also sometimes grating on my nerves at others when it seems like no real contribution to a thread is being made. I'm sure the feeling is sometimes mutual.
 
In the end, for me it is about respect. I try to respect others. If they write something I don't understand or don't agree with I respect them enough to tell them why or to read the entire post regardless of how I feel about their personal opinion. But then that is me. I think we all do appreciate common courtesy. One good rule of thumb I try to live by is simply this. "Try not to be a jerk." My second rule of thumb... "Try not to hurt others". I think they are both the same rule really, but thats how I think of them and thats how I try to guide my actions, dialogue, etc. I'm not always successful as like anyone else... I do let my emotions get the best of me from time to time.
 
was beyond my comprehension. Did you mean this? Or did you mean this? Or, I disagree.... because of this. But, I do also realize not everyone is capable or desirous of such introspection and reflection
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So, are you saying I am too stupid to understand what you are talking about? or do you mean I am too ignorant to have an open mind to your ramblings? Talk about personal attack.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
So, are you saying I am too stupid to understand what you are talking about? or do you mean I am too ignorant to have an open mind to your ramblings? Talk about personal attack.
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I was not directing anything towards you. Nowhere did I say, Beautifullywild77, this is how I feel about you personally.
 
Ok, I was just doing what you had suggested and asked you to clarify what you meant. I also apologize for hurting your feelings with the "too long, didn't read" meme! Again, I was just being honest!
 
beautifullywild77 said:
So, are you saying I am too stupid to understand what you are talking about? or do you mean I am too ignorant to have an open mind to your ramblings? Talk about personal attack.
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That might be what he is saying, but sweetie, why in the world are you wasting your time reading this spittle? Life is to be lived, and is wayyy to short for this nasty old roundabout!
 
It is very true though for myself as I don't always desire to talk about the same thing as another. I don't always desire to reflect on why I think the way I do about a given topic. I'm simply not always in the mood. Sometimes, I just want to think a certain way and not look into why. Sometimes it feels good to simply let ones emotions be expressed and not examine them. At least that is true for me personally. I did not mean to upset you Beautifullywild77.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Ok, I was just doing what you had suggested and asked you to clarify what you meant. I also apologize for hurting your feelings with the "too long, didn't read" meme! Again, I was just being honest!
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I appreciate your honesty. I don't like reading things I deem as long... especially so when the topic does not interest me. This topic does however interest me. I am interested in why and how different people perceive things as pure, impure, hybrid, nonhybrid... and the whole justification of being pro or anti-hybrid interests me personally so I can more easily read those things that are long or take a considerable amount of time to read as I am interested in knowing why people feel the way they do about this topic as it does seem to garner a lot of emotional responses. I have read much on the subject and much I don't personally agree with. This is why I am thinking there is something deeper at the core of this issue. Something I am missing or perhaps something that is not simply being expressed in a way that I can grasp it. That doesn't keep me from trying to see all the angles though and it doesn't keep me from wondering as this is an issue I am deeply curious about.
 
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