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Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster...

I have just as much of a distaste for Haliburton and drilling especially drilling in the gulf or anywhere near FL which is my home. If anything my discomfort of those activities and Haliburon is likely much stronger than most peoples feelings, but even if accidents have happened at haliburton serviced wells that is not by any stretch of the imagination any kind of proof or evidence or anything else that haliburtion actually caused any problems. Here is an example of that logic, Well Nellie (thats me) was out on a boat, then 20 minutes later said boat capsized, so Nellie must have been negligent or done something to be at least partially responsible. When in reality there are about infinity other reasons why a boat can sink or capsize.

The problem with drilling is not Haliburton or Exxon, or BP or anything else. Part of the problems are things like the time that I spent on the gulf coast as a child will not be the same as the time my kids get to spend on the gulf coast. Now depending on where you are at I have seen at least one platform personally from shore. I worry that a bunch more platforms will start to pop up and that will be our view the next time we go to the coast to try and catch a glimpse of the flash. Now instead of beautiful Sand dollars and huge stretches of beach on Sanibel Island, I worry there will be effects of an oil spill for my kids to enjoy instead. I worry that no longer will we be able to just go out and catch some fish to eat, and I worry that the reefs of the Keys which were my true childhood stomping grounds won't be there once my kids are old enough to take diving there (stomping figuratively speaking....do not step on the Coral!!!).

Despite my discomfort I really truly feel that even big mean companies like Haliburton are truly trying to be careful and safe. I'm sure that most of the employees are consciences people just like the rest of us. I bet they take their jobs and responsibilities very seriously. I seriously doubt that even the higher ups want to have a disaster. It is just bad business to piss off everyone from Texas to FL and that is if BP recovers and this spill gets cleaned fast with minimal damage. It will be even worse business for them if they end up ticking off everyone from south America all the way up the east coast to Canada (if the spawning tuna take a big hit). Even big mean companies don't want these things to happen because it isn't profitable for them to have entire states and countries mad. But nobody is perfect, no piece of equipment is perfect, and even if somehow people and our machines could be perfect things can still happen, thats just part of life....if you don't like being imperfect, then you had better hope you are the pope, god, or Q.

We are a one car family. We drive an efficient car only when necessary, the rest of the time we have bikes. We recycle, compost, garden in our yard, use cfl bulbs, dry our clothes on a clothes line, and I have been using canvas grocery bags for about a decade now. Plus this is the first winter that as an adult I have even turned the heater on. But even though my family tries hard to minimize our need for petroleum products we still need them. I would feel like a hypocrite saying I hate your line of work, but at the same time I depend on it. And even my family that works really hard to minimize our needs still needs some of these products.

Mahatma Gandhi said "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." So for anyone who really wants to do something about this spill and future spills, the best things we can do is put our money and activities where our mouths are. Ride a bike, grow some food, watch your energy usage, use a clothesline, compost, recycle, put in some solar panels, replace you water heater/other appliance with a more efficient ones, wash in cold water, and watch out about what detergents you use as many of them use petroleum products as well. I can tell that some people here obviously feel very strongly about petroleum and oil drilling. If everyone put their money and actions where your mouth was, the need to even be in the gulf drilling it to pieces would be much lessened. So rather than being upset and angry with Haliburton, or BP, or anyone else, I think it is much more productive to look at ourselves and in what ways we contributed to the problems and in what ways
we can be the change. Spend your money wisely, if everyone did that then the people who ruin our gulf will soon find themselves broke and out of business.
 
I have just as much of a distaste for Haliburton and drilling especially drilling in the gulf or anywhere near FL which is my home. If anything my discomfort of those activities and Haliburon is likely much stronger than most peoples feelings, but even if accidents have happened at haliburton serviced wells that is not by any stretch of the imagination any kind of proof or evidence or anything else that haliburtion actually caused any problems. Here is an example of that logic, Well Nellie (thats me) was out on a boat, then 20 minutes later said boat capsized, so Nellie must have been negligent or done something to be at least partially responsible. When in reality there are about infinity other reasons why a boat can sink or capsize.

The problem with drilling is not Haliburton or Exxon, or BP or anything else. Part of the problems are things like the time that I spent on the gulf coast as a child will not be the same as the time my kids get to spend on the gulf coast. Now depending on where you are at I have seen at least one platform personally from shore. I worry that a bunch more platforms will start to pop up and that will be our view the next time we go to the coast to try and catch a glimpse of the flash. Now instead of beautiful Sand dollars and huge stretches of beach on Sanibel Island, I worry there will be effects of an oil spill for my kids to enjoy instead. I worry that no longer will we be able to just go out and catch some fish to eat, and I worry that the reefs of the Keys which were my true childhood stomping grounds won't be there once my kids are old enough to take diving there (stomping figuratively speaking....do not step on the Coral!!!).

Despite my discomfort I really truly feel that even big mean companies like Haliburton are truly trying to be careful and safe. I'm sure that most of the employees are consciences people just like the rest of us. I bet they take their jobs and responsibilities very seriously. I seriously doubt that even the higher ups want to have a disaster. It is just bad business to piss off everyone from Texas to FL and that is if BP recovers and this spill gets cleaned fast with minimal damage. It will be even worse business for them if they end up ticking off everyone from south America all the way up the east coast to Canada (if the spawning tuna take a big hit). Even big mean companies don't want these things to happen because it isn't profitable for them to have entire states and countries mad. But nobody is perfect, no piece of equipment is perfect, and even if somehow people and our machines could be perfect things can still happen, thats just part of life....if you don't like being imperfect, then you had better hope you are the pope, god, or Q.

We are a one car family. We drive an efficient car only when necessary, the rest of the time we have bikes. We recycle, compost, garden in our yard, use cfl bulbs, dry our clothes on a clothes line, and I have been using canvas grocery bags for about a decade now. Plus this is the first winter that as an adult I have even turned the heater on. But even though my family tries hard to minimize our need for petroleum products we still need them. I would feel like a hypocrite saying I hate your line of work, but at the same time I depend on it. And even my family that works really hard to minimize our needs still needs some of these products.

Mahatma Gandhi said "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." So for anyone who really wants to do something about this spill and future spills, the best things we can do is put our money and activities where our mouths are. Ride a bike, grow some food, watch your energy usage, use a clothesline, compost, recycle, put in some solar panels, replace you water heater/other appliance with a more efficient ones, wash in cold water, and watch out about what detergents you use as many of them use petroleum products as well. I can tell that some people here obviously feel very strongly about petroleum and oil drilling. If everyone put their money and actions where your mouth was, the need to even be in the gulf drilling it to pieces would be much lessened. So rather than being upset and angry with Haliburton, or BP, or anyone else, I think it is much more productive to look at ourselves and in what ways we contributed to the problems and in what ways
we can be the change. Spend your money wisely, if everyone did that then the people who ruin our gulf will soon find themselves broke and out of business.

These are good points and obviously well thought out.

But I wonder, as I agree with almost all you've said, what about the fact that on several other boats you've been on, and left while still afloat, there were subsequent sinkings? What if others, trained by you as WellNellies, had also been on boats, doing whatever it is that WellNellies do, had gotten off, only to have those boats sink? Not many of them, but enough to notice, more than some other Wellies, as it were, if you see what I mean.

haliburton was working on the well head 20 hours before it blew. Maybe I'm totally off base. Maybe they had nothing to do with it. But, given their history, maybe they did. Perhaps not intentionally, I would seriously doubt that, but maybe they are responsible for the well head malfunction.

Seems some of you would rather smash and bash than ask why and how.
 
Maybe Haliburton sabotaged the well on purpose. Maybe they hired illegal immigrants to save money on labor and had completely untrained people working on the well head. Maybe Obama Bin Laden hired Haliburton to do it to help raise the price of oil. Maybe subversives from PETA infiltrated and caused the problem to bring attention to the hard life shrimp in the Gulf have to lead. Maybe it was the Coast Guard that caused the blow out because they weren't getting enough good press. Maybe it was Pres. Obama so he could come in and save the day. Maybe it was Mighty Mouse, so HE could come in and save the day. Maybe it was Rich Z so that it would up the posts on his site. Maybe it was Wes so he could point out all the things we are not doing right. These are the questions I want answers to. I am asking why and how.

I am very smart and I can also lift heavy things.
 
haliburton was working on the well head 20 hours before it blew. Maybe I'm totally off base. Maybe they had nothing to do with it. But, given their history, maybe they did. Perhaps not intentionally, I would seriously doubt that, but maybe they are responsible for the well head malfunction.

Seems some of you would rather smash and bash than ask why and how.

Well, Wes, why don't you simply tell US what you think is going on and stop beating around the bush to chase your thoughts out of OUR heads into the open?
 
I am very smart and I can also lift heavy things.

Obviously not smart enough to recognize my warning, though.

To the showers, please. See you in three days for that personal jab at Wes.
 
These are good points and obviously well thought out.

But I wonder, as I agree with almost all you've said, what about the fact that on several other boats you've been on, and left while still afloat, there were subsequent sinkings? What if others, trained by you as WellNellies, had also been on boats, doing whatever it is that WellNellies do, had gotten off, only to have those boats sink? Not many of them, but enough to notice, more than some other Wellies, as it were, if you see what I mean.

haliburton was working on the well head 20 hours before it blew. Maybe I'm totally off base. Maybe they had nothing to do with it. But, given their history, maybe they did. Perhaps not intentionally, I would seriously doubt that, but maybe they are responsible for the well head malfunction.

Seems some of you would rather smash and bash than ask why and how.

Seems you would rather smash and bash Haliburton than actually provide evidence that this has happened under their watch before.
 
You know, when some of you post, the IQ of this thread is smaller than it was before you posted. You know who you are.

I have never ONCE said haliburton owned the well. Those of you who ASS umed I had need to practice your reading comprehension.

haliburton worked on the well 20 hours before this problem.

Now I'll ask once again, how many times has a well that haliburton has worked on, NOT OWNED, had this problem?

Is this the first? Not from what I've gleaned. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

So, Water Tester, you're there, you seem like a good guy, an honest guy, how many times has this happened to haliburton serviced wells?

Wait you gleaned the web, please tell us your sources and numbers.....

Ive never heard of a spill this big in the gulf and I lived in Tampa for 14 years up until 2 years ago. Please paste a source...
 
Well first if you are alleging that there are other drilling accidents that Haliburton has had, then I'm sure we would all be happy to hear from you about them. What happened during those incidents? When did they happen? Where they Haliburton rigs or someone else's? Was it the same problem or something else? What where the circumstances surrounding those incidents? What rigs did they take place on and when so we can google it ourselves? Where they gulf rigs? Where the rigs all designed the same way? Where the natural structures of the sea floor similar? How did they manage to keep all us folks in the dark about all of these accidents?

Even if more than one boat capsizes after I leave, that still doesn't mean I had anything to do with it. Conditions of the sea/weather conditions/ the condition of the vessel/training of the crew/mother nature/freak accidents/equipment failure/ mechanical failures. Anyone who has spent any time near or on the sea knows that even with the best training, equipment, and even on a well maintained vessel stuff happens. It just does. Wilomn you are from a coastal state I'm sure you understand that even in the absolute best of circumstance the ocean can be an incredibly unforgiving and cruel Mistress. You can have generations of ocean going in your family, and you can have been on and around boats and ships your whole life. You can know and follow every regulation and safety rule and you can still have a problem, you can still lose a boat, and you can still lose your life to the sea.

Now I will be the last person to say that Haliburton (or any company really) is a model company that always does right and that is completely free of any dark secrets, but I do need some basis to go on, some reason other than circumstantial ones before I am going to point any fingers at them.
 
There's someone who should know, he works on a rig that is in sight of the rig that went down. He's a smart guy, seriously no doubt smarter than I am. Not a jab.

Has haliburton worked on other well heads that have had this problem? I've heard one news report that said they had. This did not surprise me. Now, since I don't know for sure, which has nothing to do with my lack of surprise should it prove to be true, I'm asking someone who I believe not only should know, but would tell the truth.

Nellie, I understand your point. It's ok if you don't get mine and that's not a jab either.
 
There's someone who should know, he works on a rig that is in sight of the rig that went down. He's a smart guy, seriously no doubt smarter than I am. Not a jab.

Has haliburton worked on other well heads that have had this problem? I've heard one news report that said they had. This did not surprise me. Now, since I don't know for sure, which has nothing to do with my lack of surprise should it prove to be true, I'm asking someone who I believe not only should know, but would tell the truth.

Nellie, I understand your point. It's ok if you don't get mine and that's not a jab either.

Some verifiable facts and details would be nice, Wes. This is not a Perry Mason environment here, so step out of that role, please....
 
Why should he know? I was an accountant for Wal-mart for years, but that doesn't mean I knew all of the details about everything the company did. I don't know what you do for a living, but unless you own the company I bet there is info about your company that you don't know. You are the one who is saying htis happened before, you are the one saying you heard it on the news. You can't ask someone to pro ve a negative. If you say this has happened before, then provide us all with the info, then we can read it and see if there is enough info to even draw any conclusions or paralleles.


I don't think you understand my point, but I do think I understand yours. You are saying that you heard somewhere once that haliburton has in the past had at least one other issue related to oil drilling (but you have not once linked to an article or any info). Being at the wrong place at the wrong time (even twice) does not make you guilty. Even if Haliburton had worked on similar well heads and even if similar accidents have happened before when halburton was doing work, that doesn't mean that Haliburton did anything to this one or anyone of the others, even if they all had problems. It could be that a totally different company who makes the well heads or the tools you use on them put out a faulty lot of products, and a big company like haliburton could easily own several from the same faulty line. Perhaps the manufacturing defect hasn't been discovered yet. Perhaps the type of specialized work that the Haliburton people are doing is only for one type of drill or one type of rig, and that specific rig/drill has extra risks. Even if Haliburton employees had worked 50 of the last 50 oil disasters, that still doesn't mean that the problem was related to anything that haliburton did.

Coincidence is not the same as proof.
 
There's someone who should know, he works on a rig that is in sight of the rig that went down. He's a smart guy, seriously no doubt smarter than I am. Not a jab.

Has haliburton worked on other well heads that have had this problem? I've heard one news report that said they had. This did not surprise me. Now, since I don't know for sure, which has nothing to do with my lack of surprise should it prove to be true, I'm asking someone who I believe not only should know, but would tell the truth.
Rich Z the boss man said no personal jabs so I'll try to politely as possible answer thsi question. Wilomn: What do you mean by working on the well head? Do you even know what a well head is without doing a google search- or the purpose it serves? The wellhead is on the bottom of the seafloor- ROV's operated/owned by probably NOV would do daily inspections of it. I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$ with those questions but they seem to have nothing to do with the issue at hand... But to answer your question- to the best of my knowledge, I have never heard of any issues resulting in incidents like this from well head work.

I said I wouldn't post anymore on this thread- SORRY EVERYONE... I only returned to pass on info that was emailed through the oilfield explaining what happened to the best of our knowledge. This particular email is probably a week old BUT just made it to my inbox today. It seems that the explosion was qucik and suprised everyone. Hopefully this will at least put the chain of events together alittle more for everyone. Like it says- the pending investigation will fill in many of the blanks- lessons learned will be implemented into future laws/guidelines/policies...

BTW- whoever wrote the below information did a good job of explaining in terms most non-oilfield people can understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may have heard the news in the last two days about the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig which caught fire, burned for two days, then
sank in 5,000 ft of water in the Gulf of Mexico. There are still 11 men missing, and they are not expected to be found.
The rig belongs to Transocean, the world’s biggest offshore drilling contractor. The rig was originally contracted through the year 2013 to
BP and was working on BP’s Macondo exploration well when the fire broke out. The rig costs about $500,000 per day to contract. The full
drilling spread, with helicopters and support vessels and other services, will cost closer to $1,000,000 per day to operate in the course of
drilling for oil and gas. The rig cost about $350,000,000 to build in 2001 and would cost at least double that to replace today.
The rig represents the cutting edge of drilling technology. It is a floating rig, capable of working in up to 10,000 ft water depth. The rig is
not moored; It does not use anchors because it would be too costly and too heavy to suspend this mooring load from the floating
structure. Rather, a triply-redundant computer system uses satellite positioning to control powerful thrusters that keep the rig on station
within a few feet of its intended location, at all times. This is called Dynamic Positioning.
The rig had apparently just finished cementing steel casing in place at depths exceeding 18,000 ft. The next operation was to suspend the
well so that the rig could move to its next drilling location, the idea being that a rig would return to this well later in order to complete the
work necessary to bring the well into production.
It is thought that somehow formation fluids – oil /gas – got into the wellbore and were undetected until it was too late to take action. With a
floating drilling rig setup, because it moves with the waves, currents, and winds, all of the main pressure control equipment sits on the
seabed – the uppermost unmoving point in the well. This pressure control equipment – the Blowout Preventers, or ‘BOP’s” as they’re
called, are controlled with redundant systems from the rig. In the event of a serious emergency, there are multiple Panic Buttons to hit,
and even fail-safe Deadman systems that should be automatically engaged when something of this proportion breaks out. None of them
were aparently activated, suggesting that the blowout was especially swift to escalate at the surface. The flames were visible up to about
35 miles away. Not the glow – the flames. They were 200 – 300 ft high.
All of this will be investigated and it will be some months before all of the particulars are known. For now, it is enough to say that this
marvel of modern technology, which had been operating with an excellent safety record, has burned up and sunk taking souls with it.
The well still is apparently flowing oil, which is appearing at the surface as a slick. They have been working with remotely operated
vehicles, or ROV’s which are essentially tethered miniature submarines with manipulator arms and other equipment that can perform work
underwater while the operator sits on a vessel. These are what were used to explore the Titanic, among other things. Every floating rig
has one on board and they are in constant use. In this case, they are deploying ROV’s from dedicated service vessels. They have been
trying to close the well in using a specialized port on the BOP’s and a pumping arrangement on their ROV’s. They have been unsuccessful
so far. Specialized pollution control vessels have been scrambled to start working the spill, skimming the oil up.
In the coming weeks they will move in at least one other rig to drill a fresh well that will intersect the blowing one at its pay zone. They will
use technology that is capable of drilling from a floating rig, over 3 miles deep to an exact specific point in the earth – with a target radius
of just a few feet plus or minus. Once they intersect their target, a heavy fluid will be pumped that exceeds the formation’s pressure, thus
causing the flow to cease and rendering the well safe at last. It will take at least a couple of months to get this done, bringing all available
technology to bear. It will be an ecological disaster if the well flows all of the while; Optimistically, it could bridge off downhole.
It’s a sad day when something like this happens to any rig, but even more so when it happens to something on the cutting edge of our
capabilities.
 
Why should he know? I was an accountant for Wal-mart for years, but that doesn't mean I knew all of the details about everything the company did. I don't know what you do for a living, but unless you own the company I bet there is info about your company that you don't know.


Thank you Dinah- I'm not sure how many employees the company has- probably on our website- but there are thousands of employees worldwide- I have no way of knowing who does what along with outcomes of each job.

From personal experience, I have NEVER been on a rig where there's been an enviromental incident.

Again- all I can say is they we worky as safely as humanely possible out here- we all care about the enviroment. This recent freak incident is a tradegy that is sad on all levels.
 
Thank you Dinah- I'm not sure how many employees the company has- probably on our website- but there are thousands of employees worldwide- I have no way of knowing who does what along with outcomes of each job.

From personal experience, I have NEVER been on a rig where there's been an enviromental incident.

Again- all I can say is they we worky as safely as humanely possible out here- we all care about the enviroment. This recent freak incident is a tradegy that is sad on all levels.

In your opinion, what are the chances they can stop that uncontrolled flow of crude oil in the VERY near future?
 
Thanks, Graham, very interesting. Somewhat OT, but there was recently a show on the Discovery/Science/NatGeo channel, don't remember which, that chronicled the evolution of offshore oil drilling from the beginning through the most sophisticated present means. It included accidents and calamities that allowed learning and steps to be made to improve, for example, how rigs were secured, floated, or otherwise. I watched the entire thing...it was very interesting. In Louisiana, everybody knows somebody who works offshore.
 
Thanks for reposting the e-mail, Graham. It makes everything very understandable to me.
 
In your opinion, what are the chances they can stop that uncontrolled flow of crude oil in the VERY near future?

This enviromental tradegy is a huge black eye for the oil industry. Believe me, they will do everything possible to stop it.I have an uncle on one of the boats at the rig site. They have been using ROV's for days trying to close it off with no luck. I saw on the news today that they are gonna drop those large things down ontop of the flows to try and divert the oil to a nearby vessel. It worked after Hurricane Katarina in shallower waters- HOPEFULLY it'll work this time. That is our BIG hope for a VERY near future stop of the flow.

I'll keep y'all updated with any/all the info that comes my way....

Wish I had a good answer for you Rich but I don't... I can only pray that it's stopped asap!

Graham
 
Thanks for the information Graham. A lot of legitimate anger about oil (and spills) is being miguided here it seems unless we remember to turn it back on ourselves as consumers. I'm all for oil production as long as we are still using it, happening here in the US.
I heard them talking about this spill on NPR and they were saying to put it into perspective that there's a nation in Africa (sorry can't remember which) that has a spill of this magnitude every month. And we buy that oil as well right here in America. Anybody who uses petroleum products and wants it all only drilled elsewhere should understand that all they are suggesting is that we 'export our spills'. Not that it really is helping the earth in any way. If anything our oil people have a pretty good record compared to that.
I hope that we can move away from the need to use fossil fuels one day, I hope we'll start to do more toward that end right away, I hope we can try harder to use the power we do a little more thoughtfully in the meantime- BUT in the meantime I hope we spend lots of our own oil dollars right here in America (or at least part of every dollar..)
 
Thanks for the information Graham. A lot of legitimate anger about oil (and spills) is being miguided here it seems unless we remember to turn it back on ourselves as consumers. I'm all for oil production as long as we are still using it, happening here in the US.
I heard them talking about this spill on NPR and they were saying to put it into perspective that there's a nation in Africa (sorry can't remember which) that has a spill of this magnitude every month. And we buy that oil as well right here in America. Anybody who uses petroleum products and wants it all only drilled elsewhere should understand that all they are suggesting is that we 'export our spills'. Not that it really is helping the earth in any way. If anything our oil people have a pretty good record compared to that.
I hope that we can move away from the need to use fossil fuels one day, I hope we'll start to do more toward that end right away, I hope we can try harder to use the power we do a little more thoughtfully in the meantime- BUT in the meantime I hope we spend lots of our own oil dollars right here in America (or at least part of every dollar..)

Isn't BP a foreign company? Heck, all this time I've been thinking that "BP" stood for British Petroleum..... I guess I just don't understand how this process works..... :shrugs:
 
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