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Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster...

There is a law that requires the collection of 8 cents per barrel to form a fund that pays for damages resulting from oil spills. It currently contains around 1.6 billion. This money is solely for compensation of losses incurred by individuals and businesses such as commercial fishermen, but none of this money is used for clean-up efforts. Oddly this same law places a limit of 75 million on the oil company responsible for the spill. The company is held responsible for the cost of clean-up. BP profited roughly 14 billion last year, a sharp drop from the 25 billion in 2008. I think they can afford a little more than 75 million. That's not even going to be a drop in a bucket, or a barrel as the case may be, when and if the cost of this spill will total. If it gets in the loop current and catches a ride on the Gulf Stream it could affect a great portion of the East Coast. The commercial fishing industry, which I was a part of for over twenty years, has had their feet cut out from under them already with having to compete with low priced imports and very harsh changes in regulations. (Hats off to you Rich for refraining from purchasing imported fish.) I concede to our need to find domestic sources of fuel, but I do think there is a need for more alternate sources to be developed further. Your first hand detailed information of drilling was very interesting, Graham. This event is another one of those reminders that come along every once and a while that reminds us of how vulnerable we are. I encourage anyone who lives close enough or has the ability to spend time at an affected area to volunteer. Scrub some birds with Dawn.
 
Isn't BP a foreign company? Heck, all this time I've been thinking that "BP" stood for British Petroleum..... I guess I just don't understand how this process works..... :shrugs:

Global corporation really. No more or less American than American Corps like Shell who are also global... That's why I say part of every dollar.
 
Wade got banned for that? Wow I know we get away with murder here, but that was actually mighty tame considering Wes's consistent prodding of everyone who chose not to agree with him. Oh well I can live without my Wadeypoo on here for 3 days- I'll just go bug him on fb:)
 
Found this little gem today and though it applied...

April 6, 2009: Obama Administration exempts BP from putting emergency shutoff valves on their oil wells. The largest recipient of BP cash over the last 20 years? Barack Obama.

Oops...
 
Found this little gem today and though it applied...

April 6, 2009: Obama Administration exempts BP from putting emergency shutoff valves on their oil wells. The largest recipient of BP cash over the last 20 years? Barack Obama.

Oops...

Cite please?
 
Deepwater Horizon was granted Categorical Exclusion from NEPA on April 6, 2009. He received $71k in donations from BP during the campaign. I was just looking through CNN and ABC. Of course, the administration said that the donations had nothing to do with the final decision on the exclusion which had been initiated in 2004 but not finalized, was "silly".

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/05/bp.lobbying/

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...paign-cash-to-obama-silly-and-ridiculous.html

Not saying that this is exactly what happened, but I wouldn't doubt if there is more truth to the these two actions than just coincidence... maybe I'm just skeptical though. :rolleyes:

And to be honest I don't think that the repubs would have done anything different, its just that Obummer was in the driver seat this time. Bush got kicked in the balls for anything and everything that happened over his 8 years, now its Bummer's turn.
 
This whole situation is too sad. After all these pages I have yet to see the conspiracy theory proved, not saying it is or isn't, but proof.
As far as BP and Obama wasn't it Ms. "we eat therfore we hunt" Sarah Palin amoung others who sad no problems "drill baby drill"?
 
There is NO problem with drilling and 99 times out of 100 this isn't going to happen if the proper precautions were taken. I'm also not making a conspiracy theory stating that Obama was getting paid to turn his cheek, I'm just stating that there may have been a bad set of choices that were made that led to a less than safe oil platform being run. Norway and other European countries have NO problems drilling and have NO oil spills because the proper safety precautions are taken. i.e. safety valves and sub-sea trees put in place to maintain and properly route the oil in a safe manner.

I'm also not saying that what has happened isn't awful, I just laugh at people who come out of the woodwork and say we should never drill because my guess is most of them still complain when they get to the pump and see $2.72 a gallon, then drive to the store where they buy tons of plastics and other oil by-products.

It's a terrible occurrence, but it is a mechanical device. Mechanical devices ARE going to fail, all we can do is try to maintain the consequences of these failures.

So, I say drill baby drill, but don't make exceptions when it comes to safety because sooner or later its gonna bite you in the a$$. Live, learn, and don't make the same mistake twice.
 
Last thing I'm going to say...

I don't want to reveal my powers to see the future too much but I can tell you exactly what's going to happen because, go figure, history always repeats itself.

People are talking about how BP is going to pay this and that and that we're going to have to bail them out and how blah blah blah...

What will REALLY happen...

This will end up being a lawsuit that BP will throw the best damn lawyers and money at that they can and tie up in the court system. It'll never be finalized and just be drawn out until it is too costly for the government to fight. The media and the US will lose interest in 6-7 months and this will all go away. BP will pay several million to do some clean up work, another few million in a donation to a charity fund to hush up the wildlife activists wanting their hide, and BP will go on doing business as usual. I'm not saying this is a guess, I'm almost guarunteeing it. If you don't believe me, look up the Exxon Valdeze and let me know what you find ;)

I'm out.
 
The articles posted about how much BP and its employees donated to different political figures says nothing about how much other oil companies donate. It also does not say what other oil rigs had the exclusion.

All companies donate as do many of their employees. All companies try to get concessions from whoever they can in order to lessen their costs and increase their profits. Remember a company is not there to to make the consumer happy or their employees. They are there to make money. How far they are willing to go in order to increase the bottom line varies.

Just think about how many billions of dollars the large oil companies made last year in the middle of an economic crisis. They don't do that well financially by playing nice. I am sure that they follow rules and try to make things safe. But this disaster is also a cost of doing business.
 
This accident is progressing along with long range planning involved. North Carolina's Emergency Management has been contacted about sending a Incident Management team to the Gulf Coast area. I am not sure which state requested it, but I know there is a National Emergency requiring teams to support clean up efforts. I work in NC State Government and this is what I got in a email.

NC Division of Forest Resources has been contacted by NC Emergency Management to find out if we have Type II IMT available to respond to the Gulf Coast if called upon via EMAC (Emergency Management Assistance Compact). This type request is somewhat different than a regular Southeast Compact or Federal (Fires/Floods/Hurricanes/Ice Storms) request as it is a request from another state's Emergency Management to NC EM for assistance. We are in the process of finding out all the details that this type of request entails. More information about EMAC can be found at http://www.emacweb.org/index.cfm.

I'll let you guys know more when I get additional info.
 
The issue of law suits against BP is addressed by the law that limits the liability they, or any other oil company can be held to. While the oil company is held responsible for the entire cost of clean-up they cannot be held liable for more than $75 million for businesses and individuals whose property or livelihoods are affected. Granted there is a fund with $1.6 billion in it now to be used for these claims, but $1.675 billion will not come close to covering losses should this spill do the damage it has the potential to do. I think it is fair to say that oil companies collectively have a tremendous influence on our government from the President on down. They may very well be the single most powerful entity on this planet. To put the $75 million limit of liability in perspective think about this: BP profited $14 billion last year. $75 million is about two days earnings from that year, and as I said earlier, BP saw a 45% decrease in profit in 2009. There is an exception to this limit which excludes a company who is found to be grossly negligent, involved in willful misconduct, or in violation of federal regulations. In the last couple of days Congress is considering passing a law post facto which will retroactively raise the liability for this incident. This is interesting because it clearly violates Article 1 Section 9 of the Constitution which states "No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." There is a measure currently sponsored that will raise BP's liability to $10 billion. Ex post facto laws have been allowed to pass before, so there is precedent. Regardless of all this legal mumbo jumbo the clear cut losers will be everyone who purchases petroleum products. Oil companies will raise prices to cover for any losses they incur. They have collectively done this for years. They win...We lose.
 
This is late in coming I know, I've been "out of town", but I would like to thank Graham for shedding some facts on the discussion. There is no substitute for reality.

Thanks Graham.
 
Interesting, Michael. That article says 5 minutes ago. Out running errands today, everyone in town (Baton Rouge) was talking about how a/the giant 'dome' they were working with was going to work.
It did "sound" like a good idea.
 
This will sound as if I am picking on StrangeCargo, but let me start by saying I am not.

...Drilling out here is HIGHLY regulated and safe. The Deepwater Horizon was one of the best around and the guys out there at the time of the accident were their best crew. The news media isn't giving you the whole story.... heck, we don't fully know what happened yet. But whatever happened was out of their control from what it looks like... It was a tradegy and alot of good people lost their lives... It's dangerous drilling out here...but heck, we all need gas for our cars, petroleum to make plastics, etc...

It's Ok, wilomn is just like many of the other people out there- believing all the lies and conspiracy theories. I'm actually out here LIVING it. I just walked outside from looking across the gulf and seeing the boats working on the cleanup. I doubt he's ever been on an oil rig... I bet he drives a car and COMPLAINS about the gas prices. Just a hipocrite BUT I am glad he's concerned about teh enviroment. I LOVE the Gulf Of Mexico and the last thing I like to see if enviromental disasters like this. I'm glad BP is stepping up and spending the $$$ to get it fixed (they are even goning to reimburse commercial fishermen).

My job for halliburton that I'm doing on this well is called TFM (Total Fluids Management). I test the drilling fluid and make sure they are in compliance with enviromental discharges... Heck, I even test the water on the deck to see if there's any oil in it..if so, it's routed through a multimillion dollar cleaner system before it goes in the ocean.

We RECYCLE on the oil rigs...special trash compactors for paper, cardboard & plastics. Each lab/office has recycle bins.

If even a SINGLE drop of oil gets in the Gulf I have to do paperwork...they take the enviroment VERY serious out here.

The media will make us look bad BUT in reality, its a dangerous job- accidents happen- but we spend millions yearly doing everything we can to prevent them.

At home I garden organically, compost kitchen wastes, and do everything we can to reduce our carbon footprint.

What happened in teh Gulf is horrible...I hope the cleanup goes quick. MMS (our regulatory people) are already cracking down VERY hard to ensure this doesn't happen again. Alot of new regulations will be coming in place this year... this is VERY serious to the oil industry and the enviroment.

Sorry I babled... many of you might not agree with my line of work...it's ok- I understand... but PLEASE don't believe everything the media tells you BECAUSE we DO care about the enviroment.

...Sorry to burst your bubble BUT there is no secret society of enviromental coverups... Don't you think that people (like you) are just waiting for stuff like this to happen? If this was a regular occurance- and not a freak accident- don't you think drilling in the gulf would be banned? You do realize that Halliburton is JUST a service provider...we do NOT own the oil rigs...we don't run the oil rigs. There are 10 OTHER companies out here- not just ONE company doing shady illegal things. We are a team- trying to work safely- to provide the United States with oil. Nothing shady goes on.

We are regulated by soooooooo many people. Last week alone we had two suprise visits by inspectors. We are constantly being monitored. Each night I email my reports to three different indipendent companies who look at my lab results. Each month our drilling fluids are tested by independent labs. Everybody and their mother keep an eye on us.

I can see your hatred for my company- don't you think there are hundreds of others like you- many watchdog groups- watching us constantly- waiting for an accident so y'all can point fingers? This recent tradegy has fuled the fire and gave everyone something to point fingers at. It's sad it happened...I pray the to deceased workers & their families... I pray that the Gulf will recover... that the enviroment will be ok... that the local fishermen will be ok... It's a tradegy.

Wilomn, I'm sure your a well meaning person who's just concerned about mother earth. I'm fully behind alternative energy- even if it means I'd be out of a job. Advances in solar and wind technologies are amazing- hopefully they'll continue so there will be no need for oil in the future. I doubt I can convince you otherwise, but there's honestly nothing shady going on out here. This was a freak and tragic accident- nothing more- lessons will be learned and new regulations will be put on the books. Believe me- if they we're doing illegal things, disreguarding safety polocies or destroying the enviroment; I wouldn't be working out here- I'd be back at my prior job as a Museum Curator instead.

Please watch the video until the end... That addresses trying to ban offshore drilling.

The Museum Curator job awaits. :sidestep:

Just to clear this up for everyone.....

Halliburton does NOT own drilling rigs or production platforms.... simple... period.

It was NOT on production platform... it was a Deepwater Drilling Rig owned by TRANSOCEAN (not halliburton).

BP was the company contractor that RENTED the rig & crew from Transocean. The transocean crews do regular drilling and rig maintanence jobs. Halliburton hands did the cementing for the job. MI did the mud engineering. and so on-- probably 10- 12 other 3rd party speciality contractors to do the specialized jobs.
-------------------------------------------------------

Dang, for those so against oil companies & drilling, I hope y'all boycott the petroleum industry and refrain from using gas (driving your cars, mowing yoru lawns, etc), don't use ANY plastics (since plastics come from petroleum), no natural gas, etc.

There was a problem with the cementing as well. :uhoh:

This is what bothers me the most. "Shoddy worksmanship" ????? Most of the time (especially the block we're drilling in ...and the one the deepwater horizon sunk in) you cannot predict what mother natures has in store when you drill into a formation. There are sooooooo many factors- many out of our control- that play into drilling a well. People aren't out here doing half-a$$ work.... they're doing everything 100% "by the books" with teh top of the line equipment. Each step we do out here is reviewed by our respected company offices...sit down meetings between the different companies...safety meetings...etc. There is no Shoddy Workmanship- we're all professionals who've went to schools/training/certifications to do our various jobs.

--------------------------------

I'm out. I'm just not going to waste anymore time on this thread- these conspiracy theories, far fetched malinformend lies, bum information, etc are nothing more than that...

In this report, many of the things StrangeCargo said are contradicted. I am not accusing him of lying, but I am pointing out that being out there in the Gulf did not prevent him from being misinformed and mislead. Appearances can be deceiving. Money and politics talk louder than procedures and regulations.

I am very pleased about the West Coast states idea to ban offshore drilling. The millions of dollars used to drill each hole in an attempt to find very little oil could be invested in clean energy development and implementation instead.
 
Oil spill headed towards the Loop Current

Posted by: JeffMasters, 4:01 PM GMT on May 17, 2010
Recent satellite imagery and flight over-passes of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill confirm that a surface tendril of oil has become entrained into a southward-moving current that threatens to pull oil into the Gulf of Mexico Loop Current late this week. The Loop Current is an ocean current that transports warm Caribbean water through the Yucatan Channel between Cuba and Mexico. The current flows northward into the Gulf of Mexico, then loops southeastward just south of the Florida Keys (where it is called the Florida Current), and then along the west side of the western Bahamas. Here, the waters of the Loop Current flow northward along the U.S. coast and become the Gulf Stream. Once oil gets into the Loop Current, the 1 - 2 mph speed of the current should allow the oil to travel the 500 miles to the Florida Keys in 10 - 20 days. Portions of the Loop Current flow at speed up to 4 mph, so the transport could be faster.

Why is oil getting close to the Loop Current?
The winds over the oil spill location are offshore out of the northwest today, and offshore winds will continue intermittently through Wednesday, helping push the oil southwards towards the Loop Current. However, the major reason oil is moving southwards is because of the instability of the currents in the Gulf of Mexico. The Loop Current is not a stable feature, and tends to surge northwards and southwards in a chaotic fashion, and in response to changes in the prevailing winds. Over the past week, chaotic behavior of the Loop Current and a clockwise-rotating eddy just to its north, just south of the oil spill location, have combined to bring a current of southward-moving surface water to the oil spill location. As strong on-shore winds from the southeast slackened this past weekend, oil has been drawn southward towards the Loop Current. An examination of the latest NOAA trajectory forecasts and surface current forecasts reveals the possibility that this tendril of southward-moving oil could make it into the Loop Current late this week. It is highly uncertain how much oil might make it into the Loop Current, or how diluted it might get on its voyage to the Florida Keys next week. Southeast to east winds of 10 - 15 knots are expected to develop late this week and extend into early next week, which may be strong enough to impose a surface current that will prevent oil from getting into the Loop Current this month. I predict a 30% chance that oil will make it into the Loop Current in the next two weeks.
To see the following pictures and full article see website below...

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1482


Figure 1. Forecast made at 8pm EDT Sunday May 16, 2010, of the Gulf of Mexico currents by NOAA's HYCOM model. A persistent southward flowing surface current is predicted to occur this week between the oil spill location (red dot) and the Loop Current. Image credit: NOAA.

Likely areas of impact once oil gets into the Loop Current
Based on a study of 194 floating probes released into the Northeast Gulf of Mexico during a 1-year study in the 1990s (Figure 2), the west coast of Florida from Tampa Bay southwards to the Everglades is at minimal risk of receiving oil from surface currents. There is a "forbidden zone" off the southwest Florida coast where the shape of the coast, bottom configuration, and prevailing winds all act to create upwelling and surface currents that tend to take water away from the coast. This study implies that the greatest risk of land impacts by surface oil caught in the Loop Current is along the ocean side of the Florida Keys, and along the coast of Southeast Florida from Miami to West Palm Beach. Eddies breaking away from the Gulf Stream would also likely bring oil to northwest Cuba, the western Bahamas, and the U.S. East Coast as far north as Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, though at lesser concentrations. Southwest Florida cannot rest entirely, though--the "forbidden zone" is only true for surface waters, and there is onshore flow below the surface. Since recent ship measurements have detected substantial plumes of oil beneath the surface, southwest Florida might be at risk if one of these plumes gets entrained into the Loop Current. These subsurface plumes were also detected by current probes launched into the oil spill on May 8 by one of NOAA's hurricane hunter aircraft, according to one scientist I spoke to at last week's AMS hurricane conference. There are plans for the Hurricane Hunters to go out again tomorrow and drop more probes into the spill to attempt to get a better handle on where the oil is and where the currents are taking it.


Figure 2. Paths of 194 floating probes released into the yellow-outlined area in the northeast Gulf of Mexico between February 1996 and February 1997 as part of a study by the Mineral Management Service (MMS). The probes were all launched into waters with depth between 20 and 60 meters. Image credit: Yang, H., R.H. Weisberga, P.P. Niilerb, W. Sturgesc, and W. Johnson, 1999, Lagrangian circulation and forbidden zone on the West Florida Shelf, Continental Shelf Research Volume 19, Issue 9, July 1999, Pages 1221-1245 doi:10.1016/S0278-4343(99)00021-7

When will a Loop Current eddy break off?
Every 6 - 11 months, the looped portion of the Loop Current cuts off into a clockwise-rotating ring of water that then slowly drifts west-southwest towards Texas. When one of these rings breaks off at the peak of hurricane season, it provides a source of heat energy capable of providing fuel for rapid intensification of any hurricanes that might cross over. The Loop Current is not predicted to shed an ring over the next month, as predicted by the latest 1-month forecast from the U.S. Navy. However, the last eddy broke off in July of 2009, ten month ago, and it is unusual for the Loop Current to go more than eleven months without shedding an eddy. I expect we'll see the Loop Current shed an eddy in July or August, just in time to pose the maximum threat for hurricane season. According to an interesting February 2004 article published by offshore-engineer.com, reliable forecasts of these currents and eddies are not available yet. Keep in mind that surface currents are largely driven by winds, and wind forecasts are not reliable out more than about 10 days.

References
Yang, H., R.H. Weisberga, P.P. Niilerb, W. Sturgesc, and W. Johnson, 1999, Lagrangian circulation and forbidden zone on the West Florida Shelf, Continental Shelf Research Volume 19, Issue 9, July 1999, Pages 1221-1245 doi:10.1016/S0278-4343(99)00021-7.
 
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